Navybone
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Posts posted by Navybone
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20 minutes ago, AltadenaCraig said:
I worry we're running afoul fo B-P's admonition not to "trench the role of schools" with four(4) out of 21 merit badges emphasizing ... to use your words "concepts of understanding diversity, equity, etc".
I would not say that schools cover everything in the citizenship merit badges.
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4 hours ago, AltadenaCraig said:
To me the irony is the BSA already has the answer with Citizenship in the Community in particular and community service projects in general. Lurching for popular remedies like "Citizenship in Society" just introduces more boring adult "requirements" while taking our eyes off the ball where focus needs to be: in our local communities.
So, CIS, which focuses on developing an understanding of the people in the community, is less useful than learning how the community works for a common good? Are the concepts of understanding diversity, equity, and inclusion not all part of how to strengthen a community, or even a nation? How to include your ethics in decison making -Not useful?
The four citizenship merit badges are all about the developing of our youth to be successful in their endeavors, to be leaders of this nation and the world.
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2 hours ago, qwazse said:
@Scouterlockport, the negative effect is that an Eagle-required badge takes up the time that an Eagle-bound scout might use to earn an elective badge. This reduces the diversity of experience that we expect of our youth who earn Eagle.
Unless the scout has put themselves in a time crunch, electing to work on an elective MB is their decision. CIS is not different than many other eagle required badges - there are some that are fun and interesting, and some that can be perceived as more school work. It is a not a zero-sum argument, unless the scout is only going to work on the minimum requirement. I can honestly say I have never seen a scout jump up to complete Personal Management or Family Life. But they are an opportunity to learn fantastic life long skills that most scouts do not realize they will benefit from.
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3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:
Here is someone else's perspective I am evaluating, but do not currently agree with:
https://www.kake.com/story/47530873/opinion-why-im-rethinking-boy-scouts-for-my-son
Edited 3 hours ago by InquisitiveScouter
The author is all over the place and seems to be looking for reasons to take his son out of scouting. His expectations are unrealistic during an ongoing police investigation. The only part that I do agree with in his article is that this is the right opportunity for BSA to look at its shooting programs with a discerning eye to see where it can be improved. I strongly believe that shooting has a role in scouting, but BSA needs to make sure that its rule, roles, and responsibilities are focused on if there are changes needed to teach gun safety to today's youth. Not only the mechanics of using a firearm, but the right mindset and culture.
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6 hours ago, Mrjeff said:. I agree that there is always an identifiable abuse but unless an act was intentional, its an accident.
Intentional or not has nothing to do with if the incident was the result of negligence. Negligence occurs when someone fails to do something, like make sure a loaded semi-automatic weapon is not able to be put in a boys hand. To put in military terms, dereliction of duty. The young boy pulling the trigger is an accident, but the steps leading to that weapon in that boys hand in that condition is not an accident. It is failure at several point by responsible adults.
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1 hour ago, Mrjeff said:
Ok, so answer the questions with definitive answers. No one said there was no RSO, but one RSO can't do everything.
I disagree - if we accept that the RSO cannot provide for range safety and range management, then Boy Scouts has no business running a shooting range.
Obviously we do not have all the answer, but the idea or concept that running a safe range is hard and good enough is fine (my summary of your comments) is flat our wrong. If the range cannot be run safely, it should be run. Full stop.
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4 hours ago, qwazse said:
An "unsupervised" older scout may have had the combination to the gun safe, known how to load a magazine, and how to fire the weapon. Or, he may not have known how to properly disarm the weapon, and the next youth could handle it, leading to the accidental discharge.
I do not see how this is any better. To call this accidental is to ignore that this was, with what is available now, the result of poor, very poor leadership and management. There were deliberate steps that got the weapon and the ammunition into a space where this could happen. Intentional or not does not negate that this entire affair is the result of negligence.
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7 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:
Yes we will. I guess when someone crashes their car or cuts their hand, or even stubbs their toe its a negligent and not an accident. There is always someone to blame for everything, I guess?
"Carvalho was shot when another boy, who police said was unsupervised, picked up a loaded AK-47 semi automatic rifle at the range. When the boy set the gun back down, it went off and the bullet struck Carvalho in the head."
A loaded AK-47 type weapon was left where it could be used in an unsafe manner. The result was the death of an individual. That is not an accidental discharge. Negligence occurred when that weapon, in that condition, was able to be handled but someone who used it in an unsafe manner which resulted in someone being shot.
If the proper controls had been maintained on the rifle, there would not have been any issue. The NRAs own safety rules are not followed, rules which you can positively say are written in blood.
And yes, crashing your car can be negligence, like if you are trying to text while driving and hit another car.
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17 hours ago, IronicallyNamed said:
A scout turned in a blue card to a MBC for the newly Eagle required Citizenship in Society Merit Badge with a requirement which reads "with your parents permission, have a conversation with someone with a different trait."
Their parent specifically would not give permission "due to their beliefs."
Since the requirement states that a parent's permission is required and that permission is not given, seems that the scout has met the requirement. BSA gave the scout an out with the parent's permission required statement. Seems reasonable that if 1) the MB is eagle required, and 2) there is this caveat, then 3) the absence of said permission does not negate the entire MB, just that specific requirement.
Having said that, and adult bias aside, I think the MB is very effective in prompting good discussions on some serious issues.
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1 hour ago, skeptic said:
I just looked at the survey via the link shared, and I frankly do not see what some suggest is trying to raise money, or make a profit. Is the link not inclusive of the survey?
First - Question 9
9. How likely are you to recommend financially supporting the Boy Scouts of America to others? *Second, when I tried to submit, it took me to : https://donations.scouting.org/And Third and finally, when asked, I said I live in California, and the message I received was:"Whoops! At this time, we are encouraging donors from the following states to give to their local councils. California, District Of Columbia, Illinois, Kansas, Mississippi, New Jersey, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, Tennessee, Virgin Islands, Washington, Wisconsin."I took that as it is trying to raise money and not me just having some negative bias from the get-go.- 2
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3 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:
Seems like a plea for funds disguised as a survey.
Yep - just went through it. very disheartening that their focus is on making money.
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23 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:
What other rules don't need to be followed like YPT, smoking and alcohol use, or horror of all horrors an adult trading patches with a youth?
That is quite a jump when you say allowing someone not to wear the official uniform pants means that YPT or smoking rules are optional also. One is for the safety of the youth and one is the present a unformed appearance for BSA scouts but actually little bearing on the ability to safely meet the mission of scouting.
This is not the military. Lets not pretend it is and approach it the same way.
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2 hours ago, Mrjeff said:
If we just say it's OK and overlook things I won't make waves. If a standard is established then meet the standard. If the standard is ignored then don't set the standard.
But Curious Scouter and Qwase just stated the standard, and the standard is that while desired and should be encouraged, uniforms are not mandatory.
What is the goal here for youth in scouts? Is it about the uniform, or is that one of the tools and techniques to develop and identify scouts? The mission is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.
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1 hour ago, Eagledad said:
I have no problem discussing uniform advances, but We can’t have discussions of improving marketing and give up the uniforms at the same time. Boy Scouts have been identifiable by their uniform since the program started 110 or so years ago.
Barry
True, but you have to honest with what Parts. The neckerchief, the khaki or green quasi-military shirt (or Blue for cubs), the merit badge sash are all emblematic of Boy scouts. I would argue the rest is optional.
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2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:
Actually $60, but there are shorts on sale for $23.
Replace every 6 months is $120. And that replacement rate is not hyperbole.
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My son is in Boy Scouts, and they way he is growing, you are insane if you think I am going to buy him BSA uniform pants every six months. I have a hard enough time keeping him in pants for school, so $120 for pants for one day a week and several weekend events is not going to happen. His shirt is squared away 100%, but there has to be some realism here. And BSA socks - what is the point. Even the military does not tell you brand of sock to buy. Common sense is allowed.
my story of the early late 70’s/80’s is this - I was not allowed to wear my scout shorts and the scout socks we bought for summer camp In Mississippi), because I did not have the tabs that went with them. Did not have them at our local JC Penny, did not have them at camp. Too bad - long pants for me at camp (100 degrees, humidity, etc). One of the reasons that I dropped from scouts (along with weekly uniform inspections). The troop I was in before in Europe, the one that was amazing and everyone wanted to be in, no one cared abOut your uniform socks or pants.
what is the priority? What is the intent and lesson? What is the return on investment for the scout?
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In California, add on top of the BSA training and cost the State Mandatory Reporter training and the Livescan cost ($26). Takes it to what, $71 to go camping?
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24 minutes ago, Tron said:
Navy must be far less competitive than the Army. There are many branches in the Army where if you do not get picked up on your first look you will get kicked out of the Army. For example the infantry, you need to get promoted on first look at O2 or you will get kicked out for lack of career advancement by O3.
I would not say that - it s just that the Navy is more technical than the army. Pretty much all of the officer communities has a about a year + pipeline before you get into an operational command. As such, there is no real opportunity (other than failing to pass the different schools in the pipeline) to assess an officers capabilities. There is no Infantry equivalent for the Navy - even surface warfare takes time.
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44 minutes ago, Tron said:
Assuming that a person is offered a commission and accepts it post academy, then at that time being an Eagle Scout will matter again when being reviewed for promotion; those extras as a high school and college student (Eagle Scout, CAP, Sports, Volunteering) can help get a person promoted on their first look because it helps fill in the picture of the quality and character of that junior officer. Those things will be in their career jacket and will become tie breakers.
Clarification - For an Naval Officer perspective, promotion to O2 and O3 is automatic (so long as you qualify). O4 is the first promotion determined by a board and it is 100% what is in your record and based on your time in the Naval service. In short, Eagle scout in and of itself will help you get into an academy, or ROTC, or OCS. That is it. What you learned from earning Eagle (leadership, time management, project management, etc) are essential life skills in the military and can very much help you get promoted and be a successful officer. But not because you earned Eagle.
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25 minutes ago, scoutlaw74 said:And even though it is a private organization, my son is entering the military where his Eagle rank will impact his pay. Midshipmen and Cadets at the Service Academies receive full enlisted pay and Eagle rank boosts his rank and pay.
I think that you need to check this. If your son were to enlist, then yes, he would automatically advance to E2 because he earned Eagle Scout. But for ROTC or the service academies, the pay is the same for all midshipman/cadets and their midshipman/cadet rank does not change due to Eagle Scout. And they all commission at the same rank O-1 (Ensign/2nd Lt). I will caveat with my back ground is on the Navy side, but the service are usually aligned on these types of things.
Also, the military will not care about the investigation unless there are legal issues. Otherwise it is considered an internal to the organization matter.
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41 minutes ago, Tron said:
Looks solid, make sure you get signed up for those training courses. I don't know about the rest of you but my local council is being a little weird about the new Citizenship in Society MB; I wish they vetted every MBC for every MB as rigorously as they did my cohort for the Citizenship in Society MB. Sign up for that LNT training as well, for me it was a $40 course to be considered a trained LNT trainer for Scouts.
Have not been able to get any decision or direction from my council on CinS MB.
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3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:
The Scouts administered first aid to several injured passengers, including the driver of the dump truck, Armstrong said.
This is why the media still calls out when someone makes the news and they are a Boy Scout. Good on the leaders and the scouts for setting the example.
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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:
Yes, Likewise, enough with "guns are evil, only law enforcement and military should have guns (but let's defund the police, reduce our military and ignore the facts evidencing blanket restrictions don't work while we're at it) and I will 'stand with' the families (while I stand on the bodies of their children to signal my virtue)" while it happens again.
Yes, but... lets also recognize that facts are consistently cherry-picked to make a case for one extreme or the other. As often attributed to Mark Twain - “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.” The 2nd Amendment and the Gun Control groups both use facts that support their position. This creates a "line in the sand" about any willingness to work together to find a compromise. And then nothing happens, until the next killing at another school and the cycle repeats.
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1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
As a former BSA Lifeguard, I can tell you it is 99.98% ARC to the point that the books and videos used in the class was ARC. In fact if you were willing to pay an extra $20 and take the ARC exam, you would be dual certified. the .02% difference was BSA's Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat.
So BSA Lifeguard is not a good example of BSA going their own way.
Actually, it is exactly what I am saying. Just remove the NRA moniker and official ties to the organizations, but stay aligned with their excellent instruction.
Why do we need the Citizenship in Society merit badge?
in Issues & Politics
Posted
So do we do the same with Personal Fitness? Kids have to take PE in school. How about swimming - kids have to know how to swim in our school district. If a scout takes a class like environmental science in school, should they go ahead and automatically earn merit badges that cover the same topic, Eagle required or not?
There is no national standard for education. Scout provides a leveling for those who participate, giving them a significant jump on being successful adults. I would argue that the eagle-required MBs are inline with the mission of Boy Scouts and its identified methods.