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36 minutes ago, Scouter_Chris said:

I've now heard from two people, one being my DE, that cub scouts are not to camp more than one night. I would think it would be in the GSS, but can't find it (thought it would be on page 22). Anyone know for sure? Our pack likes to do two-night trips (since we bring so much stuff).

That sure does sound astoundingly stupid, doesn't it?  

Yet, I can see how someone comes away with that interpretation.  I'm looking at the GSSS and I see numerous references to cub scout packs doing "overnight camping" (but without a clear definition of that term).  Further down, a distrinction is drawn for Scouts BSA units, which do "weekend camping".  See:  https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/ 

Sigh.  Sounds like another needless controversy brewing....

Former scouts and scouters with fond memories of camping at El Rancho Cima will be somewhat pleased to learn that 533 acres of the former BSA summer camp might be preserved as a public park (out of a total original area of over 2,000 acres). It's not the whole camp, but it sounds like it includes the former River Camp and many of the camp's facilities.

Story is here:  https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/plans-to-turn-wimberley-boy-scout-property-into-public-park/269-9621162b-ed9f-49d2-bfdd-cccb16dc2752 

In our area it's referred to as "World of Webelos".  Same idea though...

25 minutes ago, MattR said:

..The forest people would probably love us for removing the fuel...

Maybe. But probably not.  It's not straightforward.

There are a lot of issues around gathering firewood that we're becoming more aware of and that are becoming increasingly important as we face ever-diminishing open lands.  

While we might view dead trees or downed wood as fuel ready for gathering, it is also a food source to some species and a habitat for others (think birds picking up twigs to build nests, beavers using branches and logs to build their dams, etc.)  Bugs like termites might directly consume wood, and they, in turn, become food for birds or other animals. There can be myriad complex life cycles that depend on downed wood in a forest.

Of course, it depends. In a large, dense forest that has very plentiful trees, there is more than ample supplies of wood for you to have your fire and the flora and fauna to thrive as it always has. In other places, not so much.  In some places, there has historically been ample supplies, but today, those supplies are no longer adequate, yet there's old timers like us who remember as kids that we were allowed to collect wood. We often criticize the forest service for "over regulating", when in fact, it's simply that we are uncomfortable with the truth that the world is changing and that our behaviors are part of the problem.  Even in areas where downed wood is plentiful, we should take steps to minimize our impact:  a)  don't mess with wood that is obviously a habitat (or suitable as habitat), such as downed logs, b) don't take and burn all the wood in an area, c) be sensitive to the type of area, for example, deep in a forest your gathering of sticks for a fire will have little long-term impact, but in a heavily over-used "frontcountry" park, the availability of down wood is already low and any additional gathering can have an outsize impact on its ability to sustain a healthy ecosystem.  

Despite the threat to some lands, there are absolutely places where your wood gathering would be a service. For the past several decades, US land managers have suppressed natural fires and too much fuel buildup makes those areas susceptible to bigger, hotter fires. Getting rid of some of the excess fuel there would be a good thing. The problem is that most people are not paying attention to the kind of forest they're in and most people have zero knowledge of how to tell how much deadwood a forest needs to maintain its lifecycle, and how much is "too much of a good thing."  The places where scouts and the general public camp most often are the ones where there's "too little", not "too much".

One notable problem that just seems to be getting worse as time goes on is the issue of invasive species destroying our forests. Collecting wood as fuel for fires contributes to that problem because you inadvertently pick up insects, eggs, larvae etc. and move them to another place in the forest ---- or worse yet, take the wood with you to save it for the next campout somewhere far away. Invasives like the emerald ash borer have been spread largely through people moving wood.

I love a campfire as much as the next guy, but I do try to educate myself a little bit about the way that campfires "like we've always done it" may not be sustainable. One way I try to be more responsible about firebuilding while STILL having a fire (because I value the way it fosters cameraderie) is to buy a bundle of kiln-heated wood and use that as my fuel.

Some info on these issues...

* https://www.dontmovefirewood.org/ 

* https://thedyrt.com/magazine/lifestyle/where-to-buy-firewood/ 

37 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

That's the only way we cooked back in the 60s...wood campfires.  No propane or white gas ...no trailers or patrol boxes either...everything went in our backpacks....

In the 70s too.  I don't believe our troop even OWNED a propane stove. Gathering wood and building a fire was always the first thing we had to do in the morning.

I remember one campout we went on where overnight temperatures had gone below 0.  We woke up and our dish soap had frozen solid so we had to thaw that out before we could even soap our pots to fix breakfast!  

I get depressed when I hear of councils closing down camps, so it makes me particularly happy to know that Sam Houston Area Council is opening a brand-new, state-of-the-art summer camp next year. The camp is located on the edge of the Sam Houston National Forest, so it will, hopefully, retain its rustic character for generations of scouts to come.  The camp is accepting reservations for summer 2020, but already, many sessions are full (everybody wants to experience the new camp smell). I have a feeling this will quickly become the most popular scout camp in Texas.

Info about Camp Strake is here:  https://www.samhoustonbsa.org/summer-camp 

Another good option for you might be the Great Lakes Sailing Adventure offered by Michigan Crossroads Council.   Sail the Great Lakes on a 52-foot twin-masted sailing vessel?  Yeahhh, that sounds pretty awesome!

Looks like they not only allow 13-year olds, but the scout doesn't have to turn 13 until September 1 (which means 12 year olds turning 13 at the end of the summer). (At least that's how I interpret it...)

Info:  https://scoutingevent.com/attachment/BSA272/document_15205557840_1999.pdf  

On 8/22/2019 at 1:07 PM, qwazse said:

 

• Pastry dough. Store-bought? Bury tube in coals. The paper wrapping will burn away, and as it blackens, you can rotate it. Inside is yum!
  • The alternative (especially useful for dough from scratch) is to wrap around a stick. But getting the thickness of dough correct and suspending it close above the coals is a bit tricky.
•  

Sounds like you're talking about those Pillsbury croissant rolls (or biscuits).  If that's what you're cooking, do you ever have a problem with the tube expanding (and maybe even exploding all over the place)??

Hmm.  Had to Google that to see if I could find the article y'all are talking about.  I assume it's this one:
https://www.outsideonline.com/1919191/thrifty-clean-and-brave

I don't really see anything too radical going on here, though there's definitely some tales of hi jinx and "boys will be boys".

I wouldn't be troubled by the Sea Base guy if he'd just been caught with the reefer, but LSD isn't a substance I want to just dismiss with a wink towards youthful exuberance. If he's into that stuff, I really don't want him working where I send my kids.

2 hours ago, TMSM said:

Sea Base is now 13 and rank does not matter. We saw a lot of very immature scouts at Sea Base Out island last year and it was very disappointing. 

You are correct.  ...and 13 does seem too young given their program. 

From the Sea Base eligibility guidelines:
Participants must be 13 years of age prior to their arrival at Sea Base. Participants who would turn 13 during their adventure are not eligible to participate. AGE REQUIREMENTS CANNOT BE RELAXED.

We should have a contest:

Pale Horse can have a group of kids standing outside a shopping center selling $20 bags of popcorn and I'll have a group of kids right next to 'em selling $1 meat sticks. Whoever makes the most money gets to buy the nicest tents for their troop.

On 10/5/2019 at 9:48 PM, Liz said:

Our youth are probably less of a concern than our adults. While willing to drive 2.5 hours after work on a Friday evening, I am not necessarily looking forward to the idea for a 2 night campout. 

Very few of our campouts are less than 2.5 hour drive (mainly because the campsites that are closest to the city are the lamest --- paved, crowded, overbooked, etc.)  We'll occasionally do up to 4 hours, but that's really got to be an exceptional camp.

Totally understand your reluctance about the 2 night campout.  It's always more fun to go for the 3-night campout, but Columbus Day weekend would require some quick planning since it's almost here.

On 10/7/2019 at 5:48 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Dodgeball has never been an approved activity in Scouting., RRRRRIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

Yes, Eagle, but those BSA fundraisers you cited are for ADULTS, not the scouts.

Dodgeball is simply much too fun for children.

I've always liked the Country Meats fundraiser simply because it's such a small ask (just $1 per snack), which makes it astoundingly easy for the kids to sell. (Nobody doesn't have a buck in change lying around....)

Scouters who haven't heard about Country Meats can find out more about how it works on the company's web site:  https://www.countrymeats.com/ 

How about an award to scouts who can catch and remove invasive species?

If you check with your local parks department or fish & wildlife department, you might find that there are some surprising invasive species in your local lakes and streams.

Last year, our troop did a fishing activity as part of working on Nature merit badge. The park sent out an angling instructor who showed the boys pictures of the kinds of fish found in the lake we were fishing.  He also told the boys that fishermen had recently pulled out some tilapia and armored catfish --- neither of which are native to this region.  (And that if they caught those fish, they should definitely NOT "catch and release".) 

Given how common the problem of invasive species is these days, I wouldn't be surprised if your local waterways had a few of 'em too...

Florida police arrested a 23-year old staff member of BSA's Florida Sea Base.  They said he had marijuana and LSD in his car.  Story...
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/florida-keys/article235891442.html 

Scouts in Montana are working to fix up a local historic building...

https://billingsgazette.com/news/local/boy-scout-service-project-helps-old-mayor-s-home-get/article_ca4b059c-9951-501c-803b-cd330092daf1.html

Thanks, John!  There's some good stuff there.  I looked through the section for SM/ASM and was pleased to see so many useful videos about Pioneering (IMHO, this is a skill set that a lot of us aren't particularly good at, but that can be a lot of fun to do as a campout theme / weekend activity).

At most HA camps, the requirement is age 14+ (or 13 and completed 8th grade).

Rocky Mountain High Adventure Base in Colorado is a year younger.  From their leader's guide:
All youth participants must be 13 years old by January 1, or have completed the seventh grade before attending camp. All participants must be registered members of the Boy Scouts of America. It is the responsibility of the crew leader to ensure that all qualifications are met.

Most people have noticed that even the thinnest, cheapest basic cotton T-shirt provides pretty good protection against serious sunburns. (Seriously!  When is the last time your chest was burned while wearing a shirt....any shirt?)

What might surprise people is that those light cotton T-shirts have a rating of only about 4-5 UPV, and even heavier cotton fabrics, don't go much over 10 UPV.

The acid test though isn't whether my skin turns red today, but whether I'm able to dodge a skin cancer bullet 20 years from now....with that perspective in mind, I will continue looking for shirts like that Hanes Cool DRI even if I'm not noticing a big immediate payback in the redness department...

Staying warm in the tent....Hmmm.  Not sure I have a "game" in mind, but I love being out in the snow on a beautiful winter day, and so I do have a few tips:

*  Remember to dress in layers when going out:  wicking base layer, breathable insulation layer, waterproof/windproof outer shell
but in the tent, remember that wicking is still important if you're too hot/sweating, and you really want adequate insulation (fleece and down feel warmest)

* Pull clothes, hat, jacket into the sleeping bag a half hour or so before you get dressed and it won't feel like such a cold shock

* Pack some of those Hot Pack hand warmers, they're good in a pinch if your gloves and/or clothing choices aren't serving you well

* Hats On!  Remember that much of your body heat loss happens through your head. Hats are important --- even while sleeping. Maybe especially when sleeping since nights are colder than days

* Eat more fat. Your body's furnace needs fuel. 

* Carry spare socks and spare gloves and a spare hat:  wetness is the enemy as much as the cold

First Lady Melania Trump went rafting on Wyoming's Snake River with Boy Scouts.  Story:
https://apnews.com/60d51cc1785f462eaf590fb13134ce64 

3 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

When I was a scout, our patrol never said anything prior to eating. We only witnessed this practice at Council wide events.

In my roles over the years as a scouter, most of the time a meal blessing was done was at the direction of an adult. Usually "reminding" the scouts they do it.

Perhaps grace is more common in those units chartered by a church or temple. 

Grace is definitely said in my son's troop (chartered by a catholic church), and the boys just do it as a matter of routine.

When I was growing up though, my troop was chartered by the school's PTA. We didn't say grace unless an adult "reminded" us...

Over the past several years, my focus in the troop has been to work with newly bridged scouts to help them master basic scouting skills and work towards their First Class rank.  The first couple months focus on things that scouts need to complete their Scout rank, and that includes talking about bullying and cyberbullying (as part of Scout requirement 6). We do this as a group discussion, involving parents whenever possible (despite our best efforts, some parents still just want to drop off their kid and come back a couple hours later to pick him up).

Every new scout knows about bullying and cyberbullying because they've talked about it at school, if not at home around the dinner table. 

It might just be that our part of town is fairly affluent and "safe", but the vast majority of scouts tell me they have never actually been bullied and they have never had somebody trying to cyberbully them.

Yet, the fear of bullying seems very common among both kids and parents. Is it justified?  

More info:
https://www.10news.com/news/local-news/bullying-a-top-concern-for-generation-z-survey-shows 

According to the scoutpatchcollectors web site, the most expensive scout patch ever sold was a 1947 jambo patch that went for a whopping $71,000.

Hmmm.  That would buy an awful lot of tent stakes...

http://scoutpatchcollectors.com/12/most-expensive-scout-patch-history.html