malraux

On 11/27/2023 at 8:53 PM, yknot said:

Perhaps @malrauxwill be kind enough to post an updated number for us. I don't remember if they can do a cub breakdown, but I think they can see overall recruitment.

Sorry, I don't check this forum as often. There are some wild variations in numbers between councils, with some being up 30% and others down similarly. Not sure if the official numbers will hit 1mil by year end.

6 minutes ago, DannyG said:

I have seen it offered as classroom training.  Does anybody know what it takes to become a trainer?  I'd like to offer training to the unit at a committee meeting.

I don’t think there’s a required training, though fundamentals of training is the obvious one to get. 
 

that said the classroom training for this is to just watch the videos as a group. 

46 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I have a strategy/philosophy question.

Why do various subunits of BSA own so much property in the first place? (That needs maintenance and general expenditures.) Why don't we just use public lands, tents, and our own two legs (and maybe a paddle)?

Land was much cheaper back when councils got these locations, plus summer camps which are a major element of most councils require dedicated space.

Fair number of cubs didn't recharter, the scouts bsa number is a bit low as well. But of course, march/April is the low point for numbers as its immediately post recharter but before recruitment. The hope should be that the growth in cubs will lead to a growth in troops but that takes time.

1 hour ago, yknot said:

This has the December 2022 membership, a number that was reported in January. Someone on here said at that time that certain positions have access to the membership numbers in real time. Does anyone know if those membership numbers held through March 2023 and the first quarter? Up or down? 

Running the current numbers as of right now:

31 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

Sorry....yes, plan may now go effective.  Fat fingers.  

Email notification scared me with the “not” and a flurry of other notifications. 

Ask the youth in question if they think they should be able to double dip in this way and to justify it. The right answer being whatever they decide for themselves.

24 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

depends upon the lodge and/or chapter. I have seen some extremely hi quality regalia used.

If we can't ensure that all regalia used is good to hi quality in every lodge, I have reservations about making this process a key part of the program.

Also, when you look at a youth’s first few experiences with the oa, it really does show a very specific aspect of the program. The call out and the ordeal happening together really do make it seem like the oa is primarily about lots of mediocre quality cosplay. Making it through all of that to the service and leadership society can be tough. 

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Missed this comment.  Based on the questions it really does seem like these are the two paths.  Ditch the themes completely or meet with tribal leaders to see if something can be worked out.  That could still lead to major changes.  I don't expect status quo will remain.

I personally am ok with either path, even if I preference for one of them. A lot of the current approaches seems to very ad hoc instead of routinized. That might work for past times, but now one council or lodge being inappropriate can show up on YouTube and give the whole organization a black eye (micosay looking at you)

Rumor mongering, but supposedly the purpose of the survey is to decide how to roll out the incoming changes. IE, should the BSA try to work with official tribes to build something appropriate or mostly ditch the themes. But regardless the changes are coming.

There aren't a lot of extra knots, though the den leader knot often applies for cub scouters. Scouters training award is the the other big one that pretty much everyone can get. Wood badge can be gotten by just about anyone. The tenure pins can recognize the long term scouters. A lot of the knots are there for district or council work, for good or ill.

For non-uniform wear, there are often local/district awards. We have the buckskin award for service to the unit and basically anyone who gets nominated gets it. You can also make up your own award and give it.

51 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Once the project is signed off, isn't that sufficient to say that, at some point, the planning came together so that the Scout could finish his project?

Seems to me, the unit leader and the project beneficiary are the ones who get to make the call, as it's their signatures on the last page.

 

Quote

 There must also be evidence of planning and development. This is not only part of the requirement, but relates to practicing our motto to “Be Prepared.” However, in determining if a project meets requirement 5, reviewers must not require more planning and development than necessary to execute the project. These elements must not overshadow the project itself, as long as the effort was well led, and resulted in an otherwise worthy outcome acceptable to the beneficiary.

Seems like the bsa standard is that if the project got done, then adequate planning was done. Screwing up planning is a good way to learn the importance of planning for this sort of thing.

And I guess the real thing is who is going to look at this project plan form and why does it matter? The unit leader is the one who says it was done correctly not council/district. National certainly isn’t going to go through and care about this. The EBoR can, but the point of an eagle board is to have a friendly conversation, not an inquisition about why the project plan said it needed 200 screws but instead only used 150. This seems to be needless formalism for something that’ll never even get looked at. 
 

it might matter if the proposal were very brief and needed a bunch to get fleshed out but this doesn’t seem like the case here. 

23 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

When he turned in the completed and signed Workbook to request his EBoR, the district/council guy writes back telling him (and I quote exactly...) "Your workbook has a blank Project Plan section.  Please send me the Project Plan you completed with your Project Coach, Mr XXXX.  This is an important document as it shows that you "developed the planning"."

Of course the guide to advancement says: 9.0.2.12

Quote

 Any plans completed after the project proposal has been approved by the council or district are between the Scout and the beneficiary. 

I will though disagree about the paperwork being horrible. This is a case of the adults being horrible, not the paperwork.

If we are talking about geocaching/gps activities as too young for cub scouts, I’ll point out that baloo training spends a good chunk of time on gps/geocaching training: about equivalent to knots or first aid. 

12 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

If I could do one thing at BSA it would be to 86 all workbooks. Scouts is not school. Even in school we don't use workbooks. It isn't 1982 anymore.

To be fair, most of the merit badge workbooks are 3rd party items. But yes I agree that they are awful.

1 minute ago, fred8033 said:

Wow.  I guess I should have expected some councils don't require a thick packet submitted.  Our council collects all paperwork expected for the EBOR.  That includes all sections of the project workbook, references, statements of ambition and purpose, etc.  

I personally think they should if only to get it to the board chair before the meeting, but the sign off on the project completion only requires the unit leader, not someone from district. And the more physical paperwork moves around, the more there's a chance it'll get lost.

I have also had similarly frustrating run ins with my district advancement chair about excessive forms for eagle, for example that the statement of ambitions and life purpose essay thing must be part of the scoutmaster conference for eagle because it is listed after point 6 and before point 7 in the rank requirements so it must be a part of step 6.

Looking at the differences in documentation between the proposal and the project plan, there are questions there that regardless of if the project plan form was used should have an answer. Contingency plans, more detailed budgeting process, job breakdowns, safety planning, etc are part of planning and I would expect the eagle candidate to have good answers to those questions. The candidate should have some level of documentation of those plans being done in some form. That said, I can easily see a more detailed project proposal, especially one developed in conjunction with the beneficiary to not need much additional work.

Also, for my district/council, the only time the completed form is seen is at the EBOR, it isn't turned in as part of the request for a BOR.

7 minutes ago, nolesrule said:

The GTSS clearly states that Webelos and AOL dens can conduct den coordinated campouts (see the screen grab a few posts up). The single overnight experience limitation specifically applies to pack coordinated overnights. Something cannot be both pack coordinated and den coordinated. It's either one or the other. The wording for pack coordinated and den coordinated is in the same sub-section of the GTSS, so I would find it hard to believe the wording in this section is not intentional to allow Webelos and AOL dens to camp for more than one night.

But because the g2ss says that "All Cub Scout camping requirements still apply, including the den must have a BALOO trained adult leader in attendance and all Youth Protection policies apply." The single night limitation is part of the Cub Scout camping requirements, it would seem to me.

Let's see, Health Care Professions: $65,000/year for med school
Space Exploration: SpaceX launch costs are $65,000,000

It's been gone for at least a year. I think it was primarily a pandemic adaption.

To be fair, the online training is pretty awful. As the cc, one thing to do might be short trainings to cover the concepts as a group in committee meetings. 

For clarification, for the SM are we talking the online portion or IOLS? I won't defend it, but it can be hard to attend an IOLS depending on when your council runs it. I had to go out of council to complete mine.

For recalcitrant CM, you can do the in person training over time. Just show the videos one or two at a time and complete it that way.

Edit:
One good motivation for at least the SM getting IOLS training is insurance/lawsuit defense. IE if something happens then being able to say that you are following all the recommended BSA rules and made the best judgements possible in a given situation based on BSA training can help. One local troop had a death on a campout (tree fell on a tent) and being able to reference the BSA outdoor training helped protect the leaders.