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FormerProfessional

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Posts posted by FormerProfessional

  1. I’m not a Surbaugh fan or hater. In his picture he wears 3 knots on his uniform. Eagle Scout, District Award of Merit, and the professional Darth Vader knot.  I know professionals with a DAM but they were awarded before they became a professional. I have never heard or met a professional with a DAM that was awarded it for being a professional.

  2. Some politically right leaning scouters left in 2013. More of them, their units and Charter Partners that told the units to go find a new CP because we will not recharter you left in 2015. LDS is soon to leave.  I think the politically right leaning have left already. The LDS numbers are known. The unkown number of losses are how many “red coats” and scouting alumni with children in the program now will leave due to their thinking this new BSA is unrecognizable or foreign to me and I don’t want any part of it anymore is the real question.  A poll on this forum might give an indication of the red coat/alumni loss.  How many of you will stay or leave with what we know now about girls, “boys” life, and OA changes?

  3. 33 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

    Nope. Let’s just say I know for a fact I am not on that list

    Ask the professional in private, or electronically what they meant and if you get the run around go see management. I would take “conditional scouter” as a threat that a low level professional can’t back up.

  4. 7 minutes ago, Saltface said:

    Could this also possibly be the reason a scouter hears nothing for several months after volunteering to teach at University of Scouting, then receives a frantic last-minute email asking them to teach a different class on which they are not an authority? Or are they not welcome under any conditions?

    Asking for a friend.

    Hard to speak on any situation where the specifics, people, relationships, history etc. are unknown.  

    I would guess they are not on the naughty list since they were asked again. However if whomever asked that person to teach may not know if that person is on the list or not.

    University of Scouting hosted by Council is a large complex event. Many volunteers involved. The same is true with large MBU’s. 

    Your friend may have got lost in the, lack of a better word, bureaucracy.  It happens. We all make mistakes. Sometimes the coordinator may think an instructor was secured but the instructor didn’t think they were. Another possibility is 2 people were asked and your friend didn’t get a follow up call when the other accepted. 

    There are always people that back out. Many reasons. That’s usually why you get the frantic calls. I know you signed up for this but I really really need you to do that. Please help me.

    Hard to know why.

  5. 3 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

    It seem to me the implication of the fact that the district volunteers really run the district is that there really shouldn't be much the DE does directly for units.  Yes, the DE needs to be an ambassador of the professional staff.  But, expectations like the DE arranging programming, informing units about activities, etc. are really beyond the role description.

    Now, I would expect the DE to have developed relationships with the primary outward facing volunteers in the units - the CC, SM/CM/Advisor, and the COR (if they are active).  A DE probably doesn't need to know the ASMs, den leaders, etc., but it might not hurt.

    It certainly would not hurt the BSA to develop a couple of jobs for a DE that endears them to unit level volunteers.  Not quite sure what those would be, but it probably would help the image of the DE role.

    I've heard this as well - they have a special status that allows them to represent the council to the COs.  That's why they do the CO visits and not a district volunteer.

    Exactly

    Rarely did I have a contact with a Den Leader or ASM unless they also had a key district function. Den Leader also Day Camp Director. ASM as MBU coordinator etc.  I had an ASM who was District Commissioner. Talked to him a lot about the district but his Troop stuff was in passing

  6. I should add I was referring to unit/district volunteers. 

    Council Presidents, Council Treasurers, and other executive board members are not Commissioned like professionals but have other authorizations that unit/district volunteers do not have.

    There were times such as Summer Camp where I had to get authorization from the SE, and Council Camping Chair.

  7. 7 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

    Yes - let's not get into debate of who cares more - volunteers vs. professionals.  That's will never end.

    It's pretty clear from the structure of the BSA that volunteers are designed to run things.  The phrase I've heard time and time again is "volunteer led, professionally guided".  

    The challenge of course is that someone has to keep the lights on.  The professional staff, by the nature of being paid staff, is in a unique position to fill in the gaps left by volunteers.  I suspect many professionals find it easier to skip the volunteer role and go straight to just doing it themself.  I think this has been compounded by the fact that the district committees have been neglected for many years.

    I tihnk this creates the impression that the DEs are in charge, but they really are not supposed to be. 

    Well said. I agree 100%.

    A DE should go to a training in Westlake TX after 3 months of hire. When I went it was 2 weeks. I understand now it is only 1. If they successfully complete the training,  some DE’s have overslept the commissioning ceremony and do not have a job when they return to their council, the DE will be commissioned as a District Executive.  

    I am not a lawyer, and do not claim to be but part of the commissioning the DE is a legal representative of the council and can represent the council to Charter Partners and future CP and other organizations like United Way etc. This is one example where the DE “fills the gaps” and volunteers can’t do per National BSA membership standards.

  8. 3 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

    I was just called a "conditional Scouter" by a council professional for expressing my displeasure about girls in OA. 🤢 I guess being an adult volunteer for 15 years and helping 49 Scouts earn the rank of Eagle Scout, being OA Chapter Advisor, taking Venturers and Boy Scouts to Philmont 4 times, and having held key district committee positions several times doesn't count for much. Oh yeah, my dad's an Eagle Scout, I am too, and so are both my sons. But somehow I am not "committed."

    Every council has a list of “blackballed” scout volunteers. If you do not think there is one you are naive. You may be registered and in your unit but DE’s are told what volunteers are on the “naughty list” and cannot have district or council level positions.

    I was told in each council I worked in you can use anyone except......

    When I was OA staff adviser the Lodge Adviser term limit expired and he was placed on the do not use list for having an argument at an Ordeal with The Supreme Chief of the Fire a few months before his term ended. 

    The blackball naughty list may have been what the council employee was referring to.

  9. 1 hour ago, Gwaihir said:

    No, I did not say that.  You felt volunteers feel that it's just a hobby.  I was addressing this sentiment alone. 

    I don’t want to start this again. 

    I never said, if I did it was not my intention, that volunteers feel Scouting as a hobby.

    Absolutely not. Many of the volunteers I know have a deep love for Scouting, a passion. It’s part of them. It’s embedded in them. I understand that.  

    My previous post,

    My point is if the district doesn’t do well it has no effect on the volunteers personal well being or the volunteers family.  You still can pay the bills, eat, all of the basics of life.

    For the DE it could cost them their job and therefore effect their family.

    The DE has more on the line in the big picture than a volunteer.  

    Volunteers can walk away, drop the ball, don’t complete the task and life goes on for the volunteer.  For a DE their job may not.

  10. 3 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

    Some aren't "bad", I would say they are naïve or, well, let's just say they aren't the brightest light in the harbor.

    Bad meaning opposite of good...every district has had the DE that you are glad they are there and miss them when they are gone.  The bad ones you just wish they would quit and then you have the hope of getting an enjoyable one. Know what I mean?

  11. 3 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

    I understand. I have held key district committee positions for several years. I know how DEs get put on PIPs, and I know what their office environment is like when they are under FOS goals.

    Then again, when a district is doing well, too many professionals act like it is magic or as a result of their "guidance", and they fail to acknowledge the role of volunteers' efforts.

    Unfortunately many with that attitude are the ones that get promoted and become sr managers, Scout Executives, or work at national

  12. 8 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

    ...and professionals who will not answer a phone call and take several days to reply to an email make the life of a District Committee Chair not very enjoyable, especially when the District Chair has to teach the DE how to write a business letter, how to make a sales pitch, how to close a deal...and oh yeah, teach him or her about BSA policies, procedures and practices, not to mention the Aims and Methods because the DE was never a Cub Scout, Boy Scout or Venturer. 

    I have trained three DEs over the years, so I get it. My point is that many--not all but many--professionals treat volunteers as some sort of cog in the wheel that can be replaced. Actually, its the DEs who come and go.

     

    I worked with many of those kinds of DEs. There are bad ones. I agree. 

    In every district I served there were Red Coats that had been there for 20+ years and are probably still there today.

    Some vols step back and wait till the bad professional leaves and get back into it.  

     

  13. Let me clear something up. 

    I have no hate for volunteers. Scouting can’t work without them. I did not mean to offend anyone.

    My point is if the district doesn’t do well it has no effect on the volunteers personal well being or the volunteers family.  You still can pay the bills, eat, all of the basics of life.

    For the DE it could cost them their job and therefore effect their family.

    The DE has more on the line in the big picture than a volunteer.  

    Volunteers can walk away, drop the ball, don’t complete the task and life goes on for the volunteer.  For a DE their job may not.

     

    • Upvote 1
  14. Ok a passionate hobby

    A hobby is an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.

    By definition you are telling me Scouting for you is not done regularly, not in leisure  time, and you get no pleasure out of it?  

    You may have an argument about leisure  time but you make Scouting a priority in your leisure time.

    For DE’s it’s not in leisure time and sometimes it’s not pleasurable

     

  15. 3 minutes ago, David CO said:

    You can't have it both ways. You can't talk about scouters "drinking the cool-aid", and expecting us to give BSA generational loyalty in another thread, and then say that scouting is just a hobby for us in this thread.  

    I think you are wrong on both counts.

    In the other thread I was confirming there is a generational loyalty theory in council management.

  16. 3 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

    A hobby is done for pleasure, I don't do this for fun, I do this because I find meaning and purpose in it.  I do it so the boys (and girls) under my charge get the fun.  I don't have contempt for council professionals and enjoy working with them quite a bit,  but your condescension for volunteers is palpable. 

    You miss my point of the professionals do this for a love of the program and a job.  When you work for BSA as a professional it’s in the contract that the DE has no outside employment.  DEs work 8-5 m-f plus nights and weekends.

    Do you have a paying job that is not Scouting? Do you do Scouting for free, no you pay BSA to do it.  It costs you $$$$ to do Scouting.  Call it a passion, call it your ministry, call it your calling, call it whatever.  

     It’s not your livelihood, how you pay the bills.

    Theres a difference.

  17. 4 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    Chains of Command are funny things, they run two directions.  I can't count the number of times a DE has directly contacted a Cub Master or Den Leader instead of working through the Commissioner or Committee Chair.  

    The 3 councils I worked for demanded each DE to make monthly unit leader calls. Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Crew Advisor.  Just to ask what can I personally do for you and is everything ok.

    I would talk to everyone at round table or training.  Sometimes unintentionally toes got stepped on

    Just part of the job.

  18. 9 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    No a hobby is something I do when I have time.  Scouting is something I make time for.  However, your comment is consistent with the contempt I've felt from many professional scouters.

    Whether you have time or make time, it’s still an extracurricular activity...a hobby.  Volunteers with contempt for professionals make the career of Scouting not very enjoyable sometimes.

  19. 12 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

    "just a hobby"  I'd reasonably suspect that for most volunteers... it's a purpose, one with real world ramifications and they pour their souls into the task because it means more to them then just a paycheck, it means personally affecting each and every youth they come across in ways that will profoundly change the trajectory of their lives and enrich their communities and ultimately the world at large.  I know very few volunteers that think of being a Scouter akin to playing with lego or collecting stamps. 

    Do you think only volunteers feel this way? That professionals don’t? If you do believe that you have offended every professional that cares. There are many that care.

  20. Think of it like this, Troops should be youth  led. The same is true for districts in a way. Districts should be volunteer led with the DE serving as an advisor. 

    The DE should be at ALL district functions/events/activities. The DE should be approachable to anyone including youth in an appropriate situation. 

    For a district to function well there has to be a solid Key 3 District Chairman, District Comissioner, DE. They need to meet frequently. I met with the best district  chair I had multiple times a week, the 2 of us for lunch,  sat by him at rotary, and would see him in his office to talk about things. He then would visit with the district committee members and discuss with them what was appropriate for their position. Then the chair reports back to the DE.  The same relationship applies to the District Commissioner for commissioner duties.

    It is a tedious process but it’s volunteer led and keeping the DE informed. The DE and the chair should have a relationship so that the DE can talk to the membership, finance or whatever chair on occasion and no one gets offended or feels like toes were stepped on. 

    The system seems antiquated with modern communication. 

    One thing vols need to keep in mind, Scout Executives, the more tenured and in larger councils feel there is a chain of command. They want everyone including staff to follow the chain.  Please do not overstep your DE.

  21. It’s unspoken but yes there is a belief those that “drank the kool aid of Scouting” will always be paid members and give an annual FOS donation even if they arent active. Same goes for enrolling their future children.

    • Upvote 2
  22. 1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

    I really appreciate your insight into the DE role.  I appreciate working with my DE as he's been outstanding.

    I expect you'll see some pushback on this comment.  I get what you're saying.  I find the majority of Scouters view the DE like other district & council level scouters.  Those higher level Scouters are ultimately there to help units succeed.   So while yes, we all want to help each other - most volunteers are not looking at how they can help a DE out.

    One thing that I think would help here is the development of a "purpose statement" for the DE role.  What is the primary goal of the DE?  For example - the DE is not there to do all the work of the district or to even lead the district.  That's the purpose of the District Committee.  The DE is there to advise the District Committee, but not replace it.

    In my mind, the role of the DE can be summed up as:
    - professional advisor to the district staff
    - second level problem solver for units in the district
    - champion for growing Scouting in the district
    - district level representative for the professional staff of the BSA

    Not sure if that's really how it works, but that's always been my understanding.  I went looking for a better definition, but couldn't find one.

    A DE is responsible for Membership Money Manpower and dont read to much into this but the face of scouting within the district. The DE is the council representative to the public. Charter Partner visits, Charter Partner Agreements (Goldenrod), United Way, civic clubs, new unit sales calls and building relationships with the public.

    Any current or former DEs please add to this post on what you do that I may have overlooked.

    As for a problem solver, it’s always best for another volunteer to resolve volunteer problems if possible. It could be a vol from another unit, UC, DIstrict Commissioner or Council Commissoner if necessary.  You need to be aware the DE, or council management will counsel whoever goes to help. Managent May tell the DE who in turn tells the vol what to say/do.

     

  23. Some Scout Executives are overpaid. Google your councils 990 tax form. It has senior management salary on it. It will be a few years old but it’s public info. Some councils post it on the council website. Sam Houston Area Council, Houston TX does.

    I am saying there are some volunteers that have an ax to grind because professionals get paid and they do not.

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