Chris1

n my experience most SMs around here hold the position for around 5 years, 3 to 7 is the  main range. Of course there are some that are there for decades, but is less common. Most seem to step down within a year or two of their oldest child aging out for leaving Scouts. They may remain for a number or many more years has Assistance or in other positions sometimes at District or Council level. Longevity is a double edged sword has it can brake system see but can also bring stagnation. A scoutmaster who has held the position for 10 years or more is often viewed as Irreplaceable by others and he often feels no one can do the job as well as he can so he remains. This also leads to Kim not training new people to take over his job so when he does leave for whatever reason often health-related, The Troop May struggle or even full.

Another issue is physical ability, and ability to relate to the youth for a scoutmaster in their 60s, 70s, or 80s.

On 9/23/2019 at 8:42 AM, mrkstvns said:

Many thanks to all the scouters who posted suggestions for camps to add to the list and for those who posted comments about how camps implement their "Patrol Cooking".  I searched out the web sites for all camps offering some level of "patrol cooking" and foiund quite a lot of variability, from camps doing an outstanding job and fully embracing the patrol method, to camps that do little more than provide some instant oatmeal and tell scouts to heat their own water.  I read your comemnts....I read the web pages....I looked on other scouting forums....I downloaded the Leader Guides for all of these camps.  

Camps that do offer patrol cooking didn't make "the best" cut for various reasons. Some had patrol cooking in only a couple sites and only by special request. Some on some days of the week, but not others. Some required troops to bring their own food (which is just plain lame). Some offered patrol cooking for a meal or two per day, but otherwise pushed scouts to their mess hall. Some did not offer real cooking at all, just mixes or cold sandwiches (which is also totally lame).   

All this info led me to a picture of which BSA camps are truly THE BEST for troops who want Patrol Cooking...

SIX BEST BSA SUMMER CAMPS FOR TROOPS EMBRACING PATROL METHOD:

Troops that fully embrace the Patrol Method and want a high-quality summer camp experience should seek out these 7 camps...

• Camp Dietler (CO)
• Camp Freeland Leslie (WI)
• Camp Bell (NH)
• Camp Liberty (PA)
• Camp Sabbatis (NY)
• Camp Baldwin (OR)
• Voyageur at Many Point Scout Camp (MN)

BSA SCOUT CAMPS OFFERING SOME LEVEL OF "PATROL COOKING"

Troops that want some level of "cooking" during their summer camp experience should look into these camps (quality may vary):

• Camp Liberty, Heritage Scout Reservation  (PA)
  https://www.lhcscouting.org/choose-your-adventure/boy-scout-camping/camp-liberty
• Rickenbacker Side, Bear Creek Scout Reservation (TX)
  https://www.alamoareabsa.org/camping/scouts-bsa-summer-camp/
• Camp Dietler, Peaceful Valley Scout Ranch (CO)
  http://www.denverboyscouts.org/camp/boy-scout-adventures/peaceful-valley-scout-ranch/camp-dietler/11110
• Camp Waubeeka, Curtis Read Scout Reservation (NY)
  http://www.wpcbsa.org/Read
• Camp Freeland Leslie (WI)
  http://www.freelandleslie.com/
• Soaring Eagle Boy Scout Camp, Ben Delatour Scout Ranch (CO)
  https://longspeakbsa.org/programs/camps-camping/ben-delatour-scout-ranch/bdsr-camps/
• Camp Marriott or Camp Bowman, Goshen Scout Reservation (VA)
  https://www.gotogoshen.org/
• Camp Bell (NH)
  https://nhscouting.org/camps/camp-bell/
• Ed Bryant Scout Reservation (WI)
  https://www.glaciersedge.org/1468
• Sabbatis Adventure Camp (NY)
  https://www.campsabattis.org/
• Cole Canoe Base (MI)
  https://colecanoebase.com/home.php
• Voyageur at Many Point Scout Camp (MN)
  http://manypoint.org/about-us/voyageur/
• Camp Baldwin (OR)
  https://scoutcampsnw.org/camps/camp-baldwin/

 

Unfortunately Camp Dietler has been shuttered for the 2020 season.  There is hope for a revival in a year or two. Slow registration numbers, increasing costs, and then Covid-19.  😞

On 10/29/2019 at 7:59 AM, qwazse said:

Because dropping my scouts over blades spinning 100x the RPMs of my lawn mower, albeit separated by a metal grate, seems like a rational thing to do.

I'll note that the article in the OP is not about a crew going on a skydiving adventure. It's about what should be on the list of destinations for anyone who might enjoy skydiving. This is actually what I want venturers to be doing. After whatever BSA-confined super-activity we may try, I may mention a "next-level challenge", and hope that some of them "take the bait" and ask me for details, I then give them some links or phone numbers to call, they do more research, discover the array of possibilities that could open up for them in the next decade or so, and present a report on them.

Prepared for Life ... it's what we offer.

Actually the fan is located ABOVE the person with the air ducted down the side and under the diver. This also protects the fan from objects dropping in and damaging the motor. 

20 miles is a big ask. Figure 1 to 1.5 miles per hour. I went to Swamp Base this summer,  our longest day was the first day, at 19.2 miles and we all were feeling it. The agea of youth were 13,15,15,15,16,16.

I would start with a short section the first day, and maybe work up to 10 or 15 miles. 

I agree with what was stated by the others. Don't get so focused on rank that scouting is no longer fun.

If you really do have Eagle Scout as an important life goal, talk to your scoutmaster, or other adult leader about it. You have enough time,  but you are right in thinking you have to focus and get things signed off. 

One of the best things you can have is a mentor who will help you plan your path, and keep you going.

Best of luck to you, and keep having fun.

 sounds to me like a local tradition. Nothing wrong with that. When it comes to necklaces and add-ons there is quite a bit of we went. The main rule is don't overdo it and don't have it be distracting.

@MikeS72 that is a good rule of thumb, but just don't tell anyone in micosay that they can't wear their necklace, unless you want a big fight.

Now there are quite a number of things that cannot wear on the uniform, including Eagle mentor and parent pins. These are specifically stated in the guide as non-uniform pieces. You cannot make special color loops for your epaulets, custom or spoof knots and trained patches are not approved.

On 6/13/2019 at 10:23 AM, mrkstvns said:

 

I'm convinced that the impetus for lame dining halls at summer camp is lazy adults, not lazy scouts.  Most scouts I've met LIKE cooking their own meals.

I agree, that it is largely the adults telling scouts that they want dining halls. I think it is more for their own comfort than what is in the best interest of the youth. 

On 6/13/2019 at 10:21 AM, mrkstvns said:

Mess halls proliferate at BSA summer camps...but that wasn't always the case. At one point, BSA summer camps fostered scouting goals like independence, self-reliance. They trusted scouts to do things for themselves and they let scouts learn by doing. One of the ways they did that was by letting scouts cook their own meals: a practice referred to as "patrol cooking". You can read a bit more about patrol cooking here (https://www.summitbsa.org/patrol-style-cooking-not-your-typical-summer-camp-meal/).

Fortunately, there do still exist a handful of outposts where scouts are allowed to have meaningful camp experiences that help them grow into competent, confident young men. An example of this type of outpost is the summer camp where genuine patrol cooking can be done....

Camps that allow patrol cooking include....

• Camp Liberty, Heritage Scout Reservation  (PA)
•  Rickenbacker Side, Bear Creek Scout Reservation (TX)
• Camp Dietler, Peaceful Valley Scout Ranch (CO)
• Camp Waubeeka, Curtis Read Scout Reservation (NY)
• Camp Freeland Leslie (WI)
• Soaring Eagle Boy Scout Camp, Ben Delatour Scout Ranch (CO)
• Camp Marriott, Goshen Scout Reservation (VA)

Do you know of another summer camp where patrol cooking lives?  Please tell me about it!

A quick search shows that the camp in the article is being sold. Too bad. 

Rickenbacker Side, Bear Creek Scout Reservation (TX) has only 6 of its sites for patrol cooking and  troops have to plan meals and bring their own food.

On 6/13/2019 at 2:31 PM, mrkstvns said:

Really?  That's refreshing to hear.  It would be a long trip for us, but I might have to talk to a couple scouts to see if Camp Dieter might float their boats.  I know that most scouts over age 12 really have little to no interest in wasting time at another BSA merit badge summer camp. Maybe if a camp really understood the patrol method and the concept of fun it might change their outlook (and help us retain older scouts).  Camp Dieter....hmmmm....

Your from Texas, right? We get a lot of troops from Texas coming to Peaceful Valley Scout Ranch.  I think many are from the north end of the state, but we get troops from all over.  You are always welcome. 

On 6/13/2019 at 2:18 PM, MattR said:

... I think it would be great but the adults in my troop shot it down several times.

Unfortunately  I have  seen that a lot from adults in the past several years at several troops. Camp Dietler gives scouts a great experience, and highly recommend  it or other patrol-cooking camps that may be closer to you. 

At Dietler the scouts get to know the staffers as they rotate, eating meals with patrols. Yes even the camp director eats what 11 year old  scouts cook. 

Patrol method summer camps is not about the number of merit badges one can earn, it is about growth as a team and as individuals. Too bad so many people don't understand that, and focus only on how many merit badge sessions there are. 

I also find the food at patrols is far better than at dining halls. 

Few CORs have much involvement or understanding of the troop, so the lack of urgency doesn't surprise me.  

I have been in similar situations,  and there is no easy or clean solution. Good luck. 

Put them on the right or left sides as specified. Exact placement is up to you. Those I have seen place them around hip to waist level on the front. 

If you have numerous ones that go on the left, I  have seen them wrap around the side and up.

I think  one criteria for placement many women use is place them where it does not draw attention to areas you don't want guys to focus on. 

All adults and youth staff have meals with Patrols rotating through.

My Council does five per year. Typically we have had around 20 youth staff and 11 or 12 adult staff for each week. Yes it is a bit staff heavy, found some attempts are being made this year to reduce somewhat.

I think thee most important of the 8 is whichever one the unit is ignoring. Often this is Adult Association, which is probably the least understood of them. 

They all should be balanced for the unique needs of each scout. 

16 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I am now worried about one particular boys' troop. Since there are no females willing to take over SM duties for a girls' troop, the CO's boys' SM is now considering stepping down as SM there to be the SM for his daughter and her friends. I understand family first, and completely agree. But between the issues affecting that boys' troop, and knowing that no one is either willing or capable of filling his shoes as SM, I see that boys' troop folding within a year. I hope I am wrong.

One solution yes have some other guy or you offer to be scoutmaster for the girls Troop.

I think for most of us the behavior has to be repeated and serious before it goes beyond the troop. Or if it is of a sexual nature or use of a weapon. Minor offenses of occasional language or sneaking a Playboy are technically against BSA policy however I feel they should be on an individual basis usually at the troop level.

The camping requirements change as of August 1st 2017, to what you read in the new book. 

The bigger problem is the power and influence Some of the SMs have at District and Council levels. They are above the law, and fill course staffs and programs with like-minded friends. 

If anyone has the audacity to give them any type of feedback, or point out policy, you can be sure to be blacklisted and retaliation will continue for some time. Oh and don't expect to ever get an award at District or council level. 

I wish someone would take action, but council seems to look the other way.

I have wondered how many good scouters drop out due to these self centered SMs. 

I am so sorry to hear of this. The fact that the child is your own son does make this a bit more complicated and delicate of a situation. You may want another adult perhaps committee chair another ASM or Charter organization rep to stand with you or even take lead in lead on this situation. You may even want to call in a district executive or District commissioner to consult.

As I think we all know, voice of this age can the very immature and make extremely stupid choices. they do not think of or realize the possible ramifications of their actions. Although the boys I'm sure will say they were just joking around, and didn't mean anything, the fact of the matter is that those actions easily landed them with felony charges and even permanently on the sex offender registry.

They need to understand this. This goes well beyond inappropriate and unScout like Behavior. Each boy should really be extremely grateful that you did not immediately call the police and press charges against them. Accessory to sexual assault is still pretty serious.

Parents of each of the boys needs to be involved as they are minors.

From what I have read, it is my understanding that you do not wish to involve the legal system at this point. As a parent this is your call, and I believe I would probably made a similar decision. The boys should know however that had this incident happened on a scout activity, there would have been no choice but to immediately report it to the Scout executive and police.

Do not, I repeat do not, have the SPL give any details if you have him apologize in front of the Troop. This in itself it's not the Scout Way and maybe against youth protection. We do not single scouts out in this manner. Having him apologize four acts that were not in line with the Scout Oath and law is probably sufficient.  

Just be careful, so that it does not appear your actions as scoutmaster have anything to do with you being the father.

My Explorer post in the 1990s used 1 or 2 GP-mediums. 

Oh and ILST twice a year at 3 to 4.5 hours each = 6 to 9 hours.

But it is all worth while. 

Weekly:  

• Troop meeting (2 hours) 
• Misc. Planning, calls, and emails. (2hrs)

Monthly:

• Troop camp out (5pm Friday-noon Sunday) (43 hours)
• Roundtable (2 hours)
• Troop Committee Meeting (1-2 hours)

Annual:

• Summer Camp (1 week)
• High Adventure 
• Training (University of Scouting= 8 hours)+many others  for a probable total of 20 hours per year
• Scout Show, (planning, prep, setup, attendance, and cleanup. ) (12hours minimum)
• Order of the Arrow. At least 2 weekends per year

Then, you can have a bunch more if you get involved in:

1. Commissioner service
2. Multiple units
3. District
4. Council
5. Training staff
6. Activity such as Camporee, University of Scouting, NYLT Staff, Wood Badge, Popcorn Sales,
7. OA Chapter or Lodge. (particularly in elections or ceremonies)

1. Advancement requirements are exactly the same. 
2. Scouts in LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) units do not pay registration fee, dues, or for most campout costs. 
3. They are only allowed one fund raiser per year, and there are restrictions on the types. It is not important to know the specifics, but you may want to clarify what the troops does. This may help ease the shock of annual registration fees and unit dues. 
4. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints troops do not camp on Sundays, therefore the leave camp Saturday night. For those who are not members of the church, the change to camping through Sunday likely won't be an issue, but it may be a problem for members. Talk to the parents
5. Boys join the troops on their 11th birthday, and become a member on "Eleven year olds" which is basically run as a separate  patrol with limited interaction with the rest of the troops. 
6. Scouts are only allowed 3 nights of camping while age 11. Eleven year olds can NOT attend summer camp. 
7. Many boys in Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints troops do not have much experience with the patrol method, or youth leadership. 
8. Not many Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints troops are involved in Order of the Arrow
9. Adult leadership in Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints troops are selected and called by the bishop (paster). This means many Scout Leaders do not have a youth in the program and did not volunteer for the position. So you may want to explain your troops needs for parent involvement. 
10. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints troops are typically quite small with only 1 or 2 patrols. So a troop of 40 or 60 or 100 Boys may be a surprise. 
11. All boys age 11 to 18 in the church are registered in Boy Scouts, this means a larger percentage are there because they HAVE TO not because they want to. So they me be surprised how engaged your scouts and parents are. 

So there are some differences of which to be aware, and to explain to prospective scouts and parents. But there is nothing too hard to deal with. 

9 hours ago, shortridge said:

My concern is that my Scouts’ entire program experience will be negatively impacted (being shunted to less desirable weeks), that their options will be limited (they can’t attend whatever week they choose), and that the overall quality of their Scouting experience will be diminished 

@shortridge then I really hope you don't belong to Heart of America Council.