JustAScoutMom

My daughter's troop is disbanding.  She is in 7th grade, and has already completed a journey.  If we go the Juliette route, is there a place somewhere online that helps clarify requirements so she can continue, by doing just what she needs to do to advance properly with the silver and eventually the gold award?  Any help would be appreciated.  She is interested in joining BSA in 2/2019, so she will be very into scouting....I just would like to see her finish what she started in GS.

TIA!

Anyone who has done one before is asked to consider doing another one.   This, however, has to change.

Any CM that sits on a BOR should have at least READ this document:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiE8syhm6HbAhUEzFMKHfYkBHEQFggqMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffilestore.scouting.org%2Ffilestore%2Fpdf%2F33088.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1IicJ2tSCLnA4geEmxSMEN

So many simply do NOT know what their role is.  They think its to vet the appropriateness of the scout for the new rank.  This is exactly what it is NOT to do.  Far too many scouts are humiliated when they "fail" a BOR than should be.

On 4/4/2018 at 6:22 PM, Jameson76 said:

I think JTE is a good start, but maybe not the whole story.  Also as it is self declaratory, could be some fudging (on my Honor yeah yeah).  Though at least to get Gold you will have to camp out and go to longterm camp

Since it is self reporting, that is where the benchmarking  and hands on can come into play.  Go on some outings with the "best" troops, go to meetings, go to Greenbar meetings.  See what a thriving troop is doing and how they do it.

Real institutional issue is that those that are making decisions on possibly how to improve Scouting are NOT working in the units.  Most of them likely have not been on a camp out with an actual troop or dealt with an actual scout in years.  Gotta get your hands dirty and sleep in the rain to really grasp the current state of the program.  

Shouldn't the PLC understand what makes JTE points?  Wouldn't that help them understand the ulterior motive of JTE by seeing the metrics?  Of course, some may just want to check the boxes to earn the points...but don't we all do that initially until we fully understand?

5 hours ago, The Blancmange said:

While much of the event and statements probably fall into a grey area, the information above about the ad does not.  It is way over the line.  

I don't understand how the leaders didn't understand or pay proper attention when it was getting even close to the line!

Just now, Eagle1993 said:

There is no program change.  Same program, just accelerated.  Note that this will only occur this spring due to early adopter rules.  That was a requirement for early adopter Packs.  Other requirements include minimum of 4 girls, YPT female adult present at all meetings/outings with girls along with a few others.

I would also presume the majority of early entry girls were siblings, so quite likely they already knew most of the requirements, but just had to demonstrate.  And, they don't even need to earn rank.....not all of the boys do, but if they can do it, great.

17 minutes ago, David CO said:

TMI

And you are not unique to a lot of men....which is exactly why a woman has to be at a campsite when girls are there.

21 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I'm all for tailoring the uniforms so they for better - but things like skorts, no pockets, and capri pants just seem odd.

 

Actually, I'm all for the skorts....just wish they had plentiful pockets!!!  They do offer a bit more modesty for the older girls, since shorts can often be more form-fitting in the rear for some girls.  And whether its good or bad, girls changing bodies have more difficulty fitting clothes.  Boys have it lucky....find shorts with the right waist measurements, and you are good to go.  My daughter was trying out uniform pants in August last year....had to try three sizes just to get her waist and hips to fit properly. ...and she was just entering 6th grade.  Skorts can be designed to be more forgiving in some areas....and less attention on the rear.  

Also, some girls really do start their period early.  The average is now under 12 years, so its conceivable that some 10-11 year olds will have their period while in cub scouts.  Consider this when someone asks why a woman has to be there for a campout of girls....I doubt many male den leaders and scouters are prepared for that conversation if it hits at the wrong time (or the first time), if they have not already had a daughter!

Also, younger girls (under 16) when they do get their period are more than likely going to be wearing pads rather than tampons....the ability of a skort to hide the visability of such an item is way better than the alternatives.  And skorts do not hinder movement!  There are ultra marathon runners who run in sport skirts (aka skorts).

Capri pants, however, serve no additional purpose.  My daughter would much prefer the convertible dri fit pants any day.

15 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

One aspect of cub life, which if mentioned I missed it, that I think negatively affects troop life, is the family signing off on cub items. When I was a cub, it was the den leader only. Even when mom/dad gets that the SM or patrol leader will be the one to sign off, many parents (and scouts) who came through cubs will say "I saw them do it (I did it with my mom). Will you sign it off". This even bleeds into the mB program where the scout fills out workbooks with parents and then shows up at mB universities and gets a mB signed off. 

This is why we started doing the STEM awards...since it had to be approved by a Nova Counselor....kind of like a merit badge counselor but not quite as intense.  Good prepping for BS.

Case in point...my son asked why we were having a formal crossover event for him to earn his AOL patch.  He said "he already felt as if he did crossover."  He started meeting with boy scout troops in December....4 months BEFORE crossover.  He went to the Boy Scout Camporee in January with his den, and they formed an AOL patrol for the event.  They attended our Webelos Winter Weekend (just like camporee, but for Webelos only) for the last two years and crushed it as a den....they were independent and self-reliant. The transition was seamless.  Not saying that there isn't something to learn....he is learning that rank advancement is different and he has to adjust to that.  But you don't start adjusting form day 1....you build up a Webelos so the transition is seamless and the effort to adjust is no longer so daunting.

The law is not upheld.  How many churches in the last 3-4 years have been using the pulpit to endorse a political discussion/candidate.  This is no different.

Now, the BSA should have encouraged a deferment to honor, after the election, to ensure that it appears unbiased.  Endorsing a person during an election (regardless of the election is not mentioned) is certainly publicizing his candidacy...they should have known better.

He quickly accepted the swim team idea (in the past, he has HATED the idea), but he is determined to impress his peeps by passing the test in June.  His legs are strong due to daily inline skating.  I think the swim coach will great for him...he will gain endurance AND learn the proper stroke techniques.  I'm excited for him.  I think each new skill will make him feel accomplished.  More importantly, he will absolutely know that when he passes, he really earned it.  Its his alone and he can take a lot of pride in it.

From  a 1st year Boy Scouts perspective, what I'm trying to educate him on is the "first" big differences between cub scouts and boy scouts is this:

* You don't just "try your best" and get patted on the back

* You don't just get a participation trophy

* You need to develop and demonstrate proficiency

* You can move as fast or as slow as you want...its all up to you.

He doesn't need to focus on those attributes of boy scouts that will demanded on him in a year or two.  Now, I thought the above would result in the world crashing down on him.  He is one of those "lazy boys" that doesn't ever want to do anything.  From  a few weeks prior to officially crossing over, I have seen him identify a plan with weekly goals to earn his scout rank.  He identified all of those ones that he wants to tackle on week 1, week 2 and week 3.   He wants to impress people, so he does not discourage any of my "quizzes" towards him reaching those self-identified mini-goals but is appreciated of my assistance.  More importantly, we have co-decided (my idea, yes, but he enthusiastically agreed to it because he wants to "blow his peeps away" at camp) to have him join the neighborhood swim team from now to summer camp, so he can confidently pass his first eagle merit badge (swimming).....by truly understanding what "be prepared" really means as the motto.  Try to anticipate whats coming up, and what can you do now to make the options/situations easier.  I'm in awe of him right now.  I have even seen a hint of this already spill over into his goal-setting for school.  I've tried to encourage swim team before and he has ALWAYS been against the idea.  But, he sees the value...how putting a little effort in now will make the future easier.

Let the disorganization and controlled chaos elevate the spirits of the boys during the troop meetings.  They are having fun with it.  The troop parts are organized with activities and education, and the patrol parts are disorganized and more playful at this stage.   Thats ok.  Leadership and organizational skills will come in time.  He is having fun, and he has a purpose.  I can't ask for anything more.

The point being, getting ready for boy scouts is multi-phased....nobody is ready for it all on day one, or month one.  You don't treat a 5th grader the same you would treat a 14-year old.  Focus on building the solid foundation, and slowly over time build those walls and roof.

And I do not mean to say that everything about Girl Scouts is bad.   Girl Scouts provides those extracurricular educational opportunities that were once in schoolsZ. A trip to the ballet?  We did that in school.   They don’t do that now!  A trip to see how pottery is made?  Many high schools no longer have that program either.   There is a place for it....and it’s valuable.   But it’s not “Scouting.”

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

I think this is they key difference - and one that explains many of the critiques of GS troops.

GS troops really can be just as strong and have just as amazing programs.  It's the rigidity of the BSA approach coupled with the institutional knowledge the established troops have the make the Boy Scout program appeal to many.  I'm convinced that if the GSUSA leveraged some of those concepts, they would grow quickly.

 

Also, the structure of the program shares the burden for all of the activities.  The troop has a troop leader and a cookie mom.  Thats it.  And the troops are typically 6-10 girls, so even if half of all parents volunteered, what are they volunteering for?  There is no formal role that they can fill....its just "helping" the troop leader, and not all troop leaders have the time or the patience to involve everyone, since it takes time to do so!  The BSA training shows everyone what they need to do and what their role is, so they can immediately add value.  As our SM always says "many hands make light work".  That concept is counter to the GSUSA way.  To do it right, one leader would probably have to dedicate a significant time commitment every week just to benefit 6-10 girls. No BSA volunteer has to dedicate that much time, even the SM or CC....and even the time they donate they know its benefitting 30-100 boys.  That in and of itself makes it more palatable.

Now, throw that in that the boy scouts have 135 different types of training that are up to themselves to decide.  they take the initiative on what they want to know, over and above what is being shown them.  I remember that there was a book of all of the patches that I could earn....and I earned a TON on my own.  This option is not available to my daughter with how her troop is being run.  They work collectively on everything...there is no independence.  There are certainly not 135 different skills that she can select from to broaden and expose her to things that are interesting to her.  But key, she is learning life long marketing and salesmanship and cash management skills selling cookies.   Even then, the boys gets the money in their scout accounts.....girls get $.05 per box of cookies they sell.  Our troop gets $.60 per box.  Council gets the rest.  If you don't pay the huge fees for summer day camp, you don't get any benefit from council's cashflow.  

2 hours ago, cocomax said:

The girls in GSUSA get to vote on what they want to do, they are girl lead. If they want to go camping, they can vote to go camping.  GSUSA is doing exactly what the women leaders and the girls in the program want. 

If you made BSA an all female program and make GSUSA an all male program. . .    I think the boys would have a blast, it is such a open ended and free spirited program.

That I am saying it is not the BSA program or the GSUSA programs that are lacking in any way and if you place girls in a BSA program with female leaders they are going to behave almost exactly like GSUSA troops, it is the nature of what girls and women want.

I know BSA troops ran by adult females that are nightmares,  the only camping is car camping and the cooking is done by the adults, the boys spend their camping time playing on their phones and being yelled at.   I watched one troop do their thing for 9 hours and I could not tell which boy was the SPL and if they had any patrols.

I know BAD GSUSA troops where the adult females are fighting constantly  and I know really good ones, where the girls are having fun and the adult female leaders get along.

It all depends on the people, my neck of the woods suffers from some really bad leaders driving away the good ones, things just keeping getting worse and worse. 

 

 

 

 

 

GSUSA may say that they are girl-led (they say it ALL the time), but they are not.  Never in my entire life as a former girl scout did I have control over anything.  They have "leaders" and those are "troop leaders", and the girls follow their leader.  They may also say that they develop the best girl leaders, but I have yet to see a leadership development program for girls, and my daughter is a cadette.  This may happen in the older years, but the development is not for leadership.  It IS to make confident, capable young ladies that can manage work...but a leader is more than that.  Basically, every time they say "girl led" they just meant that adults should listen to the girls to incorporate their ideas into the final decision......that is NOT developing leadership skills.

The program is the fundamental design of the GSUSA program.  Take a cub scout den and the den works on what the den leader wants to work on....and then there is council providing pamphlets and a few training programs and some guidelines.  Thats girl scouts.  There is no institutional knowledge within the troop.  The troop leader is a solo gig.  So, you are going to do what your leader is comfortable doing.  I don't blame the leader....its all within her comfort zone, since she is running solo.

Now, sadly, even in our council's campsite, daisies were not allowed to roast marshmallows at campouts.  Seriously.  Of course, we never abided by that rule in my daughter's troop.

Thank you for the feedback everyone.  He really wants to ensure that he passes on the first attempt in front of his peeps and "leave them in the dust".  While I doubt that would happen (as there are few stronger/bigger boys there with him), I know it would make him feel so accomplished.  We may just have him join the local swim team now up until summer camp, just to ensure that he has the stamina and coordination for the strokes.  I appreciate any additional words of wisdom though!

My son is a new scout, and he will be attending his first summer camp in June.  He is taking a double-block swimming merit badge class.  He was in lessons when he was young, and we live near the beach and have a pool, so he is perfectly comfortable and capable in the water....daring and enjoys it.  However, he doesn't know the proper strokes and has little upper body strength (legs are strong though!).  He is also EXTREMELY skinny (5 feet and barely 75 pounds), so no fat at all in his body.

Given the above, what are his chances for earning this merit badge at camp after so many hours swimming there?  Do most scouts that earn it at camp have prior experience being taught the "proper" strokes?  Do most scouts fail simply due to the distance of 100-200 yards without a stop?  Is his lack of floating (on top) of the water going to be an issue since he has no body fat?  He can float....but his butt will not be "on" the water surface.  What does the term "strong manner" mean in terms of strokes?  Seems very subjective.

I really don't understand how they can mandate it.  They do not own the troop meeting location.  Logistics could play a part in how many girls you can accommodate.  Small house?  Can't keep more than 8 girls comfortably in one room?  If that were the case, I would NOT allow more than 8 girls in a troop.  And throwing a girl on you that has no relationship with any of the other girls?  Hardly reasonable to have a stranger in your house wandering around, even if its a 10 year old girl.  

On 2/27/2018 at 9:05 AM, JoeBob said:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/25/how-to-turn-boys-into-honorable-men-these-six-steps-are-start.html

”Welcome to the lost boy generation. Only a few have shot up schools, but too many are failing out of them.”

1 - Help Them Choose and Chase an Ideal

2. Don’t Save Them from Fear

3. Be a Good Guide

4. Let Them Run the Gauntlet

5. Introduce a Code

6. Let Them Go

 

Anything there sound familiar to y'all?

 

Awful article until it started discussing number 1...then it was great.  People are different.  People can also be equals.  I think we should recognize what we have in common, while celebrating the differences that we have.  But that 6-list code...read it....how is that any different than how you would want to raise a daughter?  They should strive for their own code, letting them go chase their dreams, and fail as well.  Certainly we want all children to grow up to be capable adults making ethical decisions.  Now, how we accomplish this may be different...but the goals are the same.

7 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

It is VERY early still.  Both of my sisters are leaders in their Packs and both packs just recently (yesterday and last week) voted to include girls.  You may want to talk to your DE, they would know which units in your District are discussing “Family” packs.

I already expressed interest in helping a troop....will see if they ever reach back out to me.  We just aged out of the pack, so that is no longer my personal concern.

3 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I don't know why this is sad. A council has a particular scouting culture. It's worked for them.

Another council has a different mix, and now can adjust to that demand. Maybe there are scouters there saying, "Sadly, the CO down the road is rolling out BSA4G."

I'm not saying that they have to...the CO has a choice, and I can respect that, but I also can be disappointed at the decision/preference.  However, I would also hope that ONE of them would encourage/welcome this change, as an organization with institutional knowledge can make this much more successful than one that cannot.  I would hate to see any effort towards the spreading of scouting ideals fail.

Sadly, I don't know of any pack that is considering adding girls in our council.  Our prior CM was completely against the idea, and still is...not sure if his feelings are widespread in this council/district or not.

Ours doesn't limit....but each adult joining MUST be registered/paid with BSA, so that does reduce the number naturally.

GS Day Camp for 2018 is $250-300, while overnight camp is $400+.  

Compare that to cub scout day camp, which is $85 (and includes a t-shirt), and you have got yourself a steal with BSA.  Those boys are also placed into smaller dens, based on rank.  They pull in over 250 scouts from the council.  They also pull in a LOT of volunteers, boy scout and girl scouts as well.  Probably 50 youth staff and another 75 adult staff.  And every single day, the boys are swimming, doing archery and bb gun.  Did I also say that if you as a parent volunteer, you get $25 off your $85 fee?  The biggest issue? Arranging carpooling, since its not in the kids backyard, as its at a real campsite.

Cub Scout day camp over here is meant for all boys to enjoy, regardless of income, where numerous siblings in one family can easily enjoy.  

On 1/21/2018 at 4:25 PM, Thunderbird said:

The girls are in separate dens in family packs, correct?  If your son's den is ready to crossover to a troop in December, why should they be held back if the girl's program (whatever it's going to be called) isn't ready by then?  Just let the boy's den crossover when it's ready, and the girl's den might crossover later.

A lot of girl's dens will probably need more time anyway, especially if most 5th grade girls don't join until August-September.  They wouldn't meet the 6-month tenure requirement until February-March.

But most packs have an elaborate event for rank advancement and crossover, while some combine it with B&G.  Most packs have a tradition on how they handle this every single year....this throws a wrench in tradition for the packs, and everyone on top should know it.  I don't think its unreasonable to wait until 2019 but it has to be in place right after 1/1/2019!  If for nothing else, the troop needs to be organized prior to accepting new scouts.