9 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Not sure how all these new families that are flooding in will react when the kiddos can't be in the same troop,

Convenience of scheduling both sons and daughters is an issue for some local families.  We are talking about the linked boys and girls troops meeting at the same time in different rooms of a local church.   Easier on families' schedules.  Easier to borrow ASMs back and forth.   As the new girls troop gets started, might want to borrow some of the higher ranked boys as skills teachers on occasion.  Some joint outings as well as separate outings.   We are still trying to figure it all out.     The current boy scouts (youth) opinion matters.

As far as scouts with younger siblings.   Same as now that just means only one parent is available to camp with the troop as at ASM on any given outing, so that the other parent is available to stay home with the younger kids. 

6 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Well, assuming that you are indeed standing beneath tall, green trees.

They grow like weeds in my part of the country.   If you try looking at google maps satellite view for a less built up area, all you can see are the trees.

Years back, one of the graces that Girl Scouts used (back when they sang grace at camp) went

Neath these tall green trees we stand, asking blessings from thy hand.  Thanks we give to thee above, for thy gifts: health, strength, and love.

This made an attempt to neatly sidestep the issue of the proper name/title for God. But it did make the assumptions that  God could be addressed with the familiar "thee", that it was proper to ask blessings from God and to give thanks to God, and that God was the source of good gifts to people.

I went to a camp training once, led by a 70-year-old girl scout trainer, who rather defensively made the case that singing grace was still appropriate -- but it was clear that that was her personal addition to the training session, not sanctioned by the council sponsoring the training.    So I am quite curious about Boy Scout practises in this matter.

By the way,  in answer to the original poster's question,  I have heard protestant (baptist, nondenominational, independent bible) christians use the word Lord without a lot of specificity to mean either 1) God the Father or 2) God the Son or 3) God the Trinity.   I have not generally heard it use to refer specifically the third person of the Trinity.

Who can create new Forums or subforums?   Besides topics in "Faith and Chaplaincy",  we are also seeing more topics suitable for the also-yet-to-be-created "Starting a new Scouts BSA girls' troop - practical how-to's" forum or subforum.

I'd also be interested in a "Faith and Chaplaincy" forum.   That aspect of BSA is currently absent from that other scouting organization in which I have spent a lot of years.  I'm curious about best practises and other scouters' experiences.   To what degree and how can you encourage the scouts to take their families' faiths seriously (or at least what can you do not to discourage them from taking their families' faiths seriously), without stepping over a line into promoting a specific religion.

10 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

For a typical troop it all falls on the two parents who have stepped up be leaders. 

The other really intimidating thing about becoming a girl scout leader was realizing that I was the face of scouting to these kids.   There was no pack,  no pack meeting,  no larger group with which we met regularly.  (Maybe a service unit event a couple of time a year, which many of the girls did not attend because it was not at a convenient time for them.)  There was also no decent handbook.  (Just the Girls Guide to Girl Scouting which was rather empty of information and overpriced, and which very very few families bought.  Also the Journey books, but what they contained was not the scouting I knew.)       A very few girls did go to summer camp,  which was invaluable,  but very few girls actually went.

Hi @Hawkwin

Selective quoting there.  You missed the part where I said

12 hours ago, Treflienne said:

If the troop leaders have been having trouble finding additional volunteers, I could certainly see troop leaders in that situation not wanting a 13th girl unless her mom (or dad) volunteered to come on every single field trip.

It is a different picture if the new family is willing to always have an adult available to help out.

11 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

When my daughter wanted to join cub scouts, the CC asked me if I wanted to lead the den.

GSUSA troops have nothing like a committee chair or a committee to help recruit additional adult leaders or to handle paperwork.   For a typical troop it all falls on the two parents who have stepped up be leaders.     (And for a year-and-a-half I was the leader of a troop which really didn't have two leaders.   After my co-leader's job situation changed preventing her from continuing,  I relied on a rotating cast of parents who each volunteered to be the second adult at a couple of meetings. (no prep, no planning, just show up.)

1 hour ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Yeah, it is limiting from a gear/financial standpoint, too. They seem to operate hand to mouth and the troop really doesn't own any gear.

Typically troops start with no money,  no equipment, no meeting place, two adults who have never been scout leaders before, and a dozen kindergarten girls.  Moreover the council wants us to end the year having zeroed out the bank balance, unless the money is earmarked for a specific future need.   Leaders are supposed to find a meeting place that they can meet, for no fee, that is preferably in a public location (school, church, business, etc) and that is handicapped accessible.  (Though there is a loophole that allows troops to meet in private homes if certain conditions are met.  Some leaders meet in homes because it is much easier, but that also limits the troop size.)   As far as equipment, what I have often seen happen is that leaders buy, out of their own pocket,  stuff they need for the troop.   This is then the leader's personal equipment which she uses with any group of kids she is  involved with (church,  soccer, etc, etc,); it does not belong to the troop and the troop loses access to it if that leader leaves.

I have to say that the approach of having a multi-year pack or troop, supported by a CO, looks appealing from the outside looking in.   

3 hours ago, SSScout said:

The local GSTroop leader was the PTA president (!) and when we asked, she said (quote) "oh no, we have enough Girl Scouts, we don't want any more."   I thought that was bizarre,  but found out it was not so strange to hear that the GS LIMITED their membership ! 

There are (sadly) some circumstances when that is a quite rational response, actually.  Let's say you have a Brownie troop with exactly 12 girls.  You only need two adults  for going on a field trip.  (Two adults can supervise up to 12 Brownies on an outing,  and you can fit 12 girls into two minivans.)   Add one more girl, and you will need a third adult any time you leave your regular meeting place.   If the troop leaders have been having trouble finding additional volunteers, I could certainly see troop leaders in that situation not wanting a 13th girl unless her mom (or dad) volunteered to come on every single field trip.

On 12/8/2018 at 10:12 PM, hiker67 said:

GSUSA seems to have officially distanced itself from outdoorsmanship.

Quote: “Instead of focusing on past notions of ‘outdoorsmanship,’ ” the organization tries to help girls develop leadership skills in a way that suits them — for example learning to advocate for environmental protection, Girl Scouts Vice President Jennifer Allebach said in an email to The Washington Post. 

That is a very telling quote.  And from a Girl Scouts Vice President.

It matches what I have seen in the types of program materials that the GS national office has been putting out during the years my daughter has been in scouts.

12 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

Interesting article.  It does sound like the national level leadership has given up on "past notions of 'outdoorsmanship,'" but that the question of outdoorsmanship in Girl Scouts is still a matter of internal hand-wringing at the local level. 

Girl Scouts is a very broad organization.   It has lots of long-term members, more or less active as volunteers,  who have strong opinions, not all the same.   Some have been tugging hard in an outdoor direction (not necessarily successfully).   Others volunteers are perfectly happy with the more modern approach the GSUSA has been taking.    

In particular the summer camp programs,  which are run by councils (not by national), and which are completely separate from the troop program,  are a bright light within Girl Scouting for those girls who want to do things outdoors.    And girls can attend these even if they are the only girls in the troops who want to go to camp (or even if they are not a member of a troop at all.)

Will the outdoor focussed Girl Scouts gain more traction in their attempts to influence the direction of the national organization, now that Boy Scouting is a competitor?  Or will the modernizers be happy if those old-fashioned Girl Scouts leave and join The Other Scouting Organization and stop badgering the modernizers? (It might not even affect GS adult membership numbers too much, because many of the most opinionated are likely lifetime members.)

2 hours ago, DuctTape said:

Yes, but he was also clear that it was by being a scout,  following the scout law and helping others is the entirety of one's service.

Your quote from Baden-Powell does not support the assertion that he thought that "to do their duty to God through doing their duty to their neighbor" was "the entirety of one's service".  

That quote could equally well have been written by someone who thought that "to do their duty to God through doing their duty to their neighbor" was only part of doing their duty to God.  

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Just had a thought.... I see a new take on Romeo and Juliette (see what I did there). Romeo is an Eagle Scout and Juliette is a Gold Scout.... you know the rest...”what’s in a name.”

I don't quite get it.   A Juliette is Girl Scout who is not a member of a troop -- what you might call a lone scout.   But what is the connection between the name Romeo and being a boy scout?

So we've got four different Boy Scouts troops in our school district talking together about how to help a new girl's troop get started, and to which troop it will link.   And my daughter is also already a member of a Girl Scout troop.   It is easy for me to refer to these five scout troops as Troop 1, Troop 2, Troop 33, Troop 444, and Troop 77777. (Those aren't the actual numbers).   But to refer to the new, soon-to-be-started Scouts BSA troop for girls?   That takes a lot of words.  It will be easier once it has a number.

What the infographic, which I'd seen before, says is

Quote

Never use the word “girl” before “Scouts.” 

I am being very careful to comply.   

To do so sometimes requires lengthy circumlocutions.

I am well aware of the need to avoid confusion.    After all my daughter, who wants to be a Scout (of the Scouts BSA variety) is also already a Girl Scout.  And she is a member of a Girl Scout Troop (of the GSUSA variety) , and wants to also join a Scout Troop (of the Scouts BSA variety) intended for girls. 

55 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Instead of saying "the boys" or "the girls", I simply say "scouts" now.

I think that saying simply "scouts" is what will work in most situations in the long run.  And if you need to be more specific you can say something like "the Artemis Patrol"  (Hi @Hawkwin ) or  "Troop 19".    But at the present we, locally, just have a group of girls who are potentially interested in becoming Scouts who don't have a patrol name and don't have a troop number yet.

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Nice!  I'm also saddened that we're loosing the name Boy Scouts.

Only sort-of.

While they will be in "Scouts BSA" rather than "Boy Scouts",  they will still be boy Scouts (which sounds the same) and part of the Boy Scouts of America.   I expect that people will still be calling them boy Scouts (or Boy Scouts) for years. 

By the way I'm finding it really awkward to need to avoid referring to the girls who will be Scouts as "girl Scouts".   What phrasing rolls off the tongue most easily for you?   Scout girls?  girl Boy Scouts?

2 hours ago, swilliams said:

"Simply put, we are Boy Scouts... who are girls! Why? Well, because we love being outdoors!"

 None of our girls has any issue being referred to as Boy Scouts.

When trying to recruit girls and their parents for "Scouts BSA" I am definitely using the name "Boy Scouts" since that is the name that families are already familiar with.

23 hours ago, gblotter said:

A good link about the history of girls in Scouting - way back to the beginning (in USA, at least).

Actually,  that one seems pretty scanty.

For more about the very early days of girls in Scouting in the USA,  try something like the biography Juliette Low by Mildred Mastin Pace.  (Maybe there are better biographies around, but this is the one I happen to have -- written for girls to read.)

And of course,  girls in Scouting did not begin in the USA -- you have to go back to the UK for that.

3 hours ago, DuctTape said:

I wonder if the group here could collaborate to produce something better which we could all use?

So I actually see a couple of different needs

1) something quite brief to explain to a parent who knows nothing about BSA (cubs or boy scouts) why Scouts BSA will be a valuable program for their daughter or son -  including the benefits of patrol method, scout-led, failure as a tool, etc,  and also listing the oath, the laws, and perhaps the methods.  (This is for parents you are trying to convince that Scouts is worthwhile,  after your kid has convinced their kid that scouts will be fun.)

2) once the kid has committed to joining -- then training for parents on how to be helpful (and what not to do in trying to be helpful).

And any suggestion of a good, brief, something that can be handed to new parents to read?

I'm starting to meet the parents of some of the local girls interested in Scouts BSA.  A couple have brothers already in BSA,  but others have no previous family connection with BSA at all --- including immigrant parents some of whom did scouting in their home country, but some of whom grew up in a home country that had no scouting movement at all. 

6 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Thanks, I was going to cover the rally but I didn't know about the book. Good stuff!

Only a couple of pages in the middle of the book are actually about the Crystal Palace rally.  But my daughter also enjoyed learning about Baden-Powell's earlier history also and the beginnings of Boy Scouting in England.  

If you really want to go back to the early days, pre BSA,  go back as far as the Crystal Palace Rally of 1909.   A number of girls showed up there calling themselves "Girl Scouts".   One of those girls was Marguerite de Beaumont who later wrote a biography of Baden-Powell, which my daughter really enjoyed reading.  The book is The Wolf That Never Sleeps and it was published by the Girl Guide Association in England in 1944 (with some later reprints.)  I was able to find it through alibris.com.

How about adding a forum (or a subforum under Open Discussion - Program) with a name something like:

"Starting a new Scouts BSA girls' troop - practical how-to's"

This would be a place to how to best get the girls' troops started, and how to have the best possible experience for the girls AND for the boys in the troops to which they are linked,  not a place to rehash whether they should be started.

And these are some discussions that might well be moved to the new forum/subforum:

12 minutes ago, MattR said:

I could see a forum for just starting any unit.

Sure.  Do that please.  Call it something like "Starting a new Scouts BSA unit".   I imagine that a lot of the discussion this year would be about the girls units.  But I also imagine that much of that would apply to any unit,  and that we have a lot to learn from others who have started new Boy Scout units in the past.

Hey moderators, @RememberSchiff,  @MattR,  @LeCastor,    @John-in-KC, etc,

Let's have a subform on the practical how-to's of starting new troops for girls.   There have been, and I am sure there will be, more discussions on the topic, and a subforum will make it easier for others to find the useful information.

The GSUSA council is probably invoking its no-fundraising-for-other-organizations policy.

Quote

 

Steffel says it was for opting to raise money directly for the families of the crash victims and not being willing to filter it through the scout council.

Steffel claims she learned from Chippewa Valley troop leaders and an area school guidance counselor that the preference out there was for direct donations to the victims’ families.

She claims local Girl Scouts officials told her such fundraising must go through the organization and that, otherwise, fundraising must be disassociated entirely from the scout organization.

 

25 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

The way the GSUSA councils statement is crafted (or appears to be) is a PR black-eye. 

I certainly agree.

The article also says
 

Quote

 

“And they said, ‘You no longer are allowed to run the troop, and we’re suspending troop accounts.’”

That includes roughly $1,750 raised through the vigil and the sales of the patches, she said.

 

For the info of you BSA guys:  the girl scout council owns the girl scout troop's bank accounts.  There are no COs.

The next question is whether the funds that were raised for the families, and which were being temporarily held in the troop's bank account, will actually end up with the families.