denibug72

7 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

My ASM who was a SM of a Troop for many years had several of his former scouts mail him their Eagle Scout medals when BSA fought against including gay scouts.  He said it was hard on him but he understood and respected their stance. 

The same happened in our troop the year my oldest son crossed over.  The scout earned his Eagle, and when the kit arrived, he handed it right back to the SM saying that he couldn't accept it in good conscience. His father was gay, and while the BSA banned his official participation, the troop allowed him to do things in an unofficial capacity.  For example, our Scoutmaster signed up for some MBs so the dad could use his knowledge to teach the kids movie-making and other MBs he was more than qualified to teach.

I spent some time at the District level, and encountered a shocking amount of sexism and racism among the older scouters.  It wasn't overt at all, and once young women were admitted, it amped up.

@69RoadRunner I finally have time to update on our Yellowstone trip.  The permit process wasn't too bad.  All four of the adults grabbed spots in the lottery, and two of them got picked for dates towards the end of April.  We had the original itinerary, but since the dates were so late in April, we came up with 4 other options in case that one was taken on our dates.  We managed to get the route we wanted, but had to reverse the direction to get the campsites that fit our group.  It seemed like a pretty smooth process to get the permit, but we have no idea what the rest of the trip would have been like.  We ended up spending a half day there - as our first day in the park was the day they shut it down from the flooding.  The boys got to see Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone and Old Faithful before all the amenities shut down & we had to leave the park.

The majority of the rest of the trip was planned as we went, and it became a Grand Teton trip instead.  Somehow we were able to get the group sites that we needed to regroup & try to figure out our next steps.  We were even able to get a permit for a 3 day backpacking trip, and salvage part of the plan.  All in all...a very memorable trip on many levels.

For our transportation - our 12 passenger van was upgraded to a 15 passenger the day before we left.  It ended up that the passenger van carried the boys, and the minivan carried the gear.  We took a few seats out of the passenger van to give the boys room to stretch out, and still have the seatbelts we needed to take everyone in one vehicle when needed.  Not our original plan...but it worked well for us.

On 2/26/2022 at 6:28 PM, 69RoadRunner said:

We were able to get a van that fit our budget. I like the flexibility of having the van so we can do side trips as time allows.

We got two vans - a 12 passenger & a minivan.  We've got a crew of 11 right now, and since this is a combo of car camping/backpacking, the gear needs forced us up to 2 vehicles.  It also gives us flexibility in backcountry planning - we don't have to pay for a shuttle if we end up having to choose a loop route.  And we can easily make grocery and other supply runs when needed.  Hurts the pocket book, but the parents/scouts were all on board with the decision.  We're putting on a ton of miles on the front & back side of the trip, so being able to have the scouts spread out between the vehicles will hopefully help the morale stay up.

On 2/23/2022 at 5:26 PM, 69RoadRunner said:

Yeah, we're doing Philmont this year and renting a van from Denver airport and wow is it expensive. I'm hoping things are better next year when we do a roll your own trip. 

I'm trying to find a few viable trips to present to the troop for 2023. Viable for a group of scouts is the greatest challenge. The scouts have done none of these trips I'm looking at, so they'd all be great experiences. My wise Committee Chair said pick trips I'd love to do since I'm doing all this work and the scouts will love it, too.

We've been rotating between Philmont, Sea Base and Northern Tier. I thought it would be nice to do something on our own. 

Can you tell me about the Tetons part of your trip? That could be part of a Plan B for us.

We're still working on the Tetons part.  One day of whitewater rafting, and one day of hiking for sure, but the rest is still up in the air right now.  We need to nail it down quick before the whitewater reservations fill up.  A big theme of the trip is fishing/fly fishing, so I'm sure that will work it's way in there too.

On 2/26/2022 at 8:43 AM, qwazse said:

@denibug72, the best way to increase your comfort level is backpacking every month before your trip. Every scout and scouter needs to be very comfortable with their gear.

I keep my backpack at the end of my bed (much to Mrs. Q’s consternation), and I have no clue what’s in it after three months idle.

Our shakedown is about a month prior to the trip, but all of the scouts have been on backpacking trips with the troop in the past year.  It's a bit tough to get a backpacking trip in every month before the trip though - still battling snow & freezing temps here in the upper midwest.  I'm game for it, but I don't think I could talk the other adults & scouts into it.  🥶

My backpack is sitting next to the treadmill.  It's been too snowy/icy to get out on the trails, so that's been the only way I've been putting on miles lately.

I will post an update as we go through the lottery and beyond.  Right now, we're counting on getting those backcountry campsites because everything else that's reservable within the park is unavailable (or not big enough to handle our group).  We picked up the campsites we needed on either side of the backpacking trek a few months ago, but now we're scrambling to figure out a backup plan if the backcountry permit falls through.  After our Yellowstone segment, we've got a group site at Grand Tetons NP to base camp out of,  and there weren't many of those left either.

My advice would be to start reserving campsites as early as you can, and potentially an extra one to cover your backcountry days in case you don't get a permit. Cancelling reservations is pretty easy, and you'd have the peace of mind that you've got a backup if the permitting doesn't work out.  Also, budget a lot extra for transportation costs - it's amazing how high the prices are for rental vehicles right now.

I admit - I share your apprehension about this type of a trip - last time I was in Yellowstone was early 2000's, and I've never backpacked there before.  Heck, this will only be my 3rd longer range backpacking trip, and for most of these scouts, their first time hiking/backpacking at elevation.   It will be an interesting adventure....

Our troop is in the midst of planning a western HA trip including Yellowstone right now.  The permit process has changed to a lottery this year, so we're not sure how things are going to shake out.  Basically, you pay $10 to get a spot in the lottery, and you might get a chance at a permit.  We've got a short backpacking segment in Yellowstone, but we're trying to come up with Plan A, B, C, D, and E just in case sites are booked before we can get in the system to get them.  We've been scrambling to get other campsites also.  The council that runs Camp Buffalo Bill is short staffed & in the middle of a merger, so when we contacted them about staying there for one night, they said it might be possible, but wouldn't know for at least a few more weeks.  

We had coffee, but my memory is hazy as to if it was perc or instant.  Just send them an email about it.  Our crew had dietary issues, so there were a lot of emails back and forth with the base.  At that time, they were very responsive and we had answers to our questions within a day at most.  Granted, that was a few years ago, but hopefully that's still the case.  

Even though you're doing Out Island, you may want to pack some dramamine (or at least a little extra in the first aid kit).  You're not on the big water a lot, but the fishing & snorkeling days could get a bit stomach churning in the right conditions. 

My experience mirrors Fred's - we did an August Out Island trip, and would definitely recommend that over the Keys Adventure.  The boys are still talking about the trip years later, and I honestly don't think they'd be doing that for a KA trip. 

4 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Good point. I recall the swine flu fiasco of 1976.. 

https://www.history.com/news/swine-flu-rush-vaccine-election-year-1976

Due to the incomplete ( and wrong) science at that time and fear of unexplained possible side-effects such as Guillain-Barre Syndrome , I and 80% of the US did not get the flu shot that year. Here's a photo of one of few, an unidentified Eagle Scout, who did get a swine flu shot.

We're not vax deniers, but our family has dealt with vax reactions in the past.  My oldest had a major reaction to his 6 mo shots, to the point that we stopped all his shots.  Years later we found out that Guillain-Barre Syndrome is a horrible disease to go through.  My oldest son contracted a rare variant of it (Miller-Fischer) as a young teenager.  We still don't know how or why he got it, and probably never will.  So thankful for IVIG plasma treatments, and a neurologist that had a pretty good guess as to what it could be (since the spinal tap & blood workups took weeks to come back).  At the time, the doctors told him never to get a flu shot, and because of that, he's leaning towards opting out of the covid shot.  It's just hard to make that decision when there's no data available for cases like that.   

Your ability to hammock camp will be highly dependent on the campsite you are assigned, which you won't know until you arrive on base.  Munson is broken up into two campsite areas - Front Porch & Back Porch.  When we were there in 2018, we were assigned a site in the Front Porch that had a few trees in it - enough that 3 of us could barely hammock (1 w/tarp, 2 w/o tarps).  Many of the campsites on that part of the island didn't have much for trees or living shrubs - not a lot of rebound from the hurricane at that point.  From what I saw on the island tour of the Back Porch side of the island, you'd probably have a better shot at hammocking there, but not 100% sure.

My setup was a Dutchware Chameleon hammock, with an ultralight Xenon Hex tarp for a rain fly - same setup I use for my boundary waters trips.  I picked up some knock offs of MSR Cyclone stakes for the trip, and they worked fairly well in the sand.

21 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

Here's an interesting question I just received.  A scout who's Eagle project was scheduled for a couple weeks from now, and then turns 18 a few weeks later.  Where does he stand.

My best guess is that all sorts of rules are going to be waived everywhere as a result of this crisis, and this is going to be one of them.  But we just won't know right away.

Our troop has a scout that's close to this situation as well.  He was supposed to present his project to District on April 2nd, and had his work days planned for mid-April.  He ages out in June. Our state closed  all the school districts until the end of March, and our local district has said that they would most likely resume in April via online school.  Our Council has now told us to cancel everything scouting related - all meetings, activities, etc. - anything in-person - until the schools are back in session.  Some of the teachers I've talked to have said that they're being told to prep for the rest of the school year to be online.  If that's the case, I'm really hoping that National will issue some waivers because of all this.   

We just did this a few weekends ago.  Every November we have our annual Tarp & Twine campout, and for the adults that participate in the campout, we do an early Thanksgiving dinner.  Most of the food is cooked in dutch ovens or over the fire, and the turkey gets wrapped in foil & cooked in a hole in the ground.  The boys are always interested in what we're doing, but none have tried it yet.  

Those are patches & segments from Tomahawk Scout Reservation.  Our troop promotes the segments for our boys - it gets them out of the campsite & trying things that they might not do without the opportunity of earning a segment (like the 5k rootbeer run).  It's also a bit of bragging rights too - there's some very competitive scouts that try for the highest total each year.  Now how they wear the segments...that's a different matter.  The majority of our boys wear them as pictured in the OP - the middle patch is their first year at Tomahawk, surrounded by all the segments they've earned so far.  I've seen quite a few from other Tomahawk troops that wear them on the back of their MB sash.  It definitely clutters up the shirt, but it's also been a great jump off point for conversations when meeting scouts from other troops.  

Well, we got a reprieve from the fee hike.  Next year will not be pretty - with this national fee hike & the talk of getting rid of FOS & moving to the "Program Fee" model, I'm sure our fees will be quite high.  At least we get a year to plan for it.

http://www.northernstar.org/national-membership-fee-increase-delayed-for-all-northern-star-units

Just dealt with this on a BWCA trip.  My husband & I set up our hammocks with a spreader bar, so we were both connected to the same two trees.  The first night went by without incident.  At 1:30am the second night, we awoke as we hit the ground when the tree that the foot end of the hammocks was connected to gave way.  Still half asleep, we grabbed our gear & finished out the night in the tent.  Took a closer survey of the damage the next morning, and found that the center of the tree was rotted out.  Thankfully, it fell just to the side of the hammocks - missed me by about a foot.  Only damage we incurred was a busted shock cord on the corner of the rain fly closest to the tree - it could have been so much worse though.  Definitely taught us to double & triple check the trees we hang from, and to keep SPOT close to us at all times when we're on our BW trips.

On 4/24/2019 at 9:37 PM, mashmaster said:

In many ways I agree whole heatedly with you.  In general, people sign their kids up....  As an easy way to knock out several merit badges and the kids sit and watch.  They can be good, but the responsibility leans on the director of the event to make sure to get the right instructors.

Some instructors are great and the classes are great, the problem is you have no ability to advise the scout about which counselor to take.  We all know some counselors that are amazing and others that just check off the merit badge.  Both merit badges are equal but the experience is not the same.  I have witnessed a scout get signed off for starting a fire for wilderness survival when he was unable to do it.    I asked the boy and he said he didn't do it , dad was upset that we didn't give him credit, and the next campout the scout worked with an older scout that taught him how to do it.

This is an issue in our troop.  We have a number of scouts that have been attending a monthly program where about 15 MBs are offered in morning & afternoon 3 hour sessions.  Every one of the MBs that scouts have taken at these sessions have resulted in a signed off blue card during the session - some of them in highly questionable circumstances.  Once the Scoutmaster found out about the cost for this program, and the issues with how they obtain & use counselors, he announced to the troop that he would no longer issue signed blue cards for anyone attending those programs.  There's been some pushback from the parents involved, but he's holding firm on it right now.  It's a bit of re-education on how MBs are supposed to be done - especially for the parents that are trying to drive their son's advancement. 

I've opted for Duluth Trading's Dry on the Fly pants.  Love the fit, and the pairs I have aren't terribly far off from the official BSA color.  Unfortunately, they're as spendy as the BSA ones, but for me, they're worth the extra $$.

I have to disagree with ValleyBoy.  I'm part of our district advancement committee and sit on the project approval boards each month for the district.  Depending on how he presented his project to us, I could see it being approved in our district.  As others have said, there is no building requirement for Eagle projects, and I definitely don't see this as a routine labor situation.  Valleyboy, if he held some kind of a collection drive to collect more Lego sets, would that help his project in your district?  As it is, I honestly see enough chances for him to show leadership in the project as it is, but he'd have to be able to articulate it in his presentation.  I love that he has a connection to the beneficiary - so many of the projects we see in the district don't have that, so it's refreshing when we have a scout that has an out of the box idea like this come up for approval.

4 minutes ago, shortridge said:

Does anyone know how to *find* a BSA-approved WFA course?

Scouting.org refers visitors to three sources - ARC, ESCI, and ACA. (“A participant who successfully completes a 16-hour WFA course based on BSA curriculum will be certified as a WFA provider. This certification is valid for two years through any of the course providers listed below.”)

—> ARC has nothing in my area and the search function won’t let me cast a wider net except searching city by city.

—> ESCI doesn’t appear to offer courses itself but sells materials and certifies instructors. It does not offer an instructor search function that sorts by type of course.

—> ACA only recognizes WFA from ESCI and Sierra Rescue, which operates on the opposite side of the country.

If I take a WFA course through REI, NOLS, WMA, or SOLO, those appear to not count. Anyone else sorted this out?

I know Northern Tier is running a WFA training course this December, and the instructors are NOLS certified.  Seems kinda odd for the BSA to say that you need ARC, ESCI, or ACA WFA training when they're using NOLS to train their own staff. 

If you're targeting a specific HA base, send them a quick email to see if they'd accept other courses.  If it's for a troop level activity, I think any full weekend WFA training would be enough.  As far as tracking down the courses - ask around at Roundtable to see what other units have done in the past.  Your district or council training team may have some leads as well.

10 hours ago, Pselb said:

I have a question.   How many scout leaders out there that either have home-schooled children of their own or have home-school kids in their units?  How does that influence what's going on?   Okay, that's two questions.  Mea culpa.

 

This is my 14th year of homeschooling my boys.  They both participated as much or as little as they want - it's their choice.  Older son earned his Eagle about 3 years ago, and the younger is one merit badge away from his.  The only real influence I see is that by homeschooling & not working, as a leader in the troop I'm usually available to head up outings and opportunities that other working leaders might not have the chance to do (high adventure, daytime activities, etc).