Jump to content

69RoadRunner

Members
  • Content Count

    610
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    18

Posts posted by 69RoadRunner

  1. 25 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

    A few lesson s learned from van trips.

    Two drivers per vehicle are a must. Switch out every two or three hours is recommended. 

    Gas stops and snack/food stops take three times longer with scouts because they are painfully slow. We found Scouts and adults should wear uniforms so the store and restaurant employees know who all those kids running around wildly belong to. Travel is the only time our scouts are required to wear a uniform. 

    Make sure all drivers have the lists of phone numbers and designated stops. We even include copies of health forms for each vehicle.

    Don't caravan or follow each other. The BSA suggest it, but travel is safer when the following vehicles aren't trying to keep up in traffic. Even with drivers driving at their personal comfortable speed, we were never more than 10 minutes apart after a 3 hour leg.

    Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Have a great trip.

    Barry

    I only have 3 adults. For Philmont this year, we just added 2 scouts from another troop so we have a crew of 12. We're renting a 15 passenger and a minivan. Often they charge an absurd amount per day to add an extra driver, but I get your point. Also, have the drivers make separate reservations. They got really confused going to Sea Base when I reserved 2 vehicles. I hate rental car companies. That's my greatest stress on high adventure travel.

    Yeah, BSA says not to caravan and that's good advice. On the highway, it's not that hard to safely stay fairly close if traffic is light. In urban areas with traffic lights, it's a bad idea to try to stay together.

    In an area of good cell coverage, having passengers call between vehicles is easy to stay on track. 

  2. On 2/26/2022 at 9:02 PM, qwazse said:

    World Jambo US contingent issued Osprey day packs. My scouts love them, and it seemed that half the scouts from the rest of the world did too and would try to broker trades for them. Me … not so much. The side pockets weren’t deep enough for a standard water bottle. I had to attach a shock chord to keep from losing mine. I eventually traded with a young Spanish staff (after making sure his pack’s side pockets were sufficiently deep). I don’t know the brand, but I have been using it for the past two years with absolutely no regrets.

    This is another reason I use Smartwater bottles instead of Nalgenes. They're not just lighter and cheaper, I can fit 2 in my backpack side pocket as opposed to just 1 Nalgene.

  3. 8 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    A few thoughts; I seem to remember crews taking a train to Philmont from Denver. troops and churches might help get a crew to Philmont using their own vehicles. We did several backing trips through summer camp high adventure programs. That was 20 years ago and the economy may have stopped those programs, but they were all over the U.S. and basically just provide a guide and the rest is on your own. 
    Barry

    We were able to get a van that fit our budget. I like the flexibility of having the van so we can do side trips as time allows.

  4. 44 minutes ago, yknot said:

    I think the general consensus is that if not a scam it's basically the same as the Who's Who type vanity publishing racket. Not to say there aren't some benefits to being listed but as we all know these days being listed anywhere means you'll get endless pitches, direct mail, promotions, etc. 

     

    2 minutes ago, MattR said:

    If they can't explain the benefit and you have to ask us, but they will take your money ... sounds like a scam.

    Might be better to spend that money on a photo album to give your son. He'll one day look at it and remember some good times. That's what yearbooks are for.

    Thanks, that confirms what I was thinking.

  5. My son just got a postcard from the National Eagle Scout Association with an offer to be in their 2021 Yearbook.

    Is this, well maybe scam is not the right word, but a scam like those National Super Smart student yearbooks they tried to sell us when we graduated high school but was really just anyone who would pay for the book?

    Are you just paying for the book or is there any other benefit to this?

  6. 2 minutes ago, denibug72 said:

    I will post an update as we go through the lottery and beyond.  Right now, we're counting on getting those backcountry campsites because everything else that's reservable within the park is unavailable (or not big enough to handle our group).  We picked up the campsites we needed on either side of the backpacking trek a few months ago, but now we're scrambling to figure out a backup plan if the backcountry permit falls through.  After our Yellowstone segment, we've got a group site at Grand Tetons NP to base camp out of,  and there weren't many of those left either.

    My advice would be to start reserving campsites as early as you can, and potentially an extra one to cover your backcountry days in case you don't get a permit. Cancelling reservations is pretty easy, and you'd have the peace of mind that you've got a backup if the permitting doesn't work out.  Also, budget a lot extra for transportation costs - it's amazing how high the prices are for rental vehicles right now.

    I admit - I share your apprehension about this type of a trip - last time I was in Yellowstone was early 2000's, and I've never backpacked there before.  Heck, this will only be my 3rd longer range backpacking trip, and for most of these scouts, their first time hiking/backpacking at elevation.   It will be an interesting adventure....

    Yeah, we're doing Philmont this year and renting a van from Denver airport and wow is it expensive. I'm hoping things are better next year when we do a roll your own trip. 

    I'm trying to find a few viable trips to present to the troop for 2023. Viable for a group of scouts is the greatest challenge. The scouts have done none of these trips I'm looking at, so they'd all be great experiences. My wise Committee Chair said pick trips I'd love to do since I'm doing all this work and the scouts will love it, too.

    We've been rotating between Philmont, Sea Base and Northern Tier. I thought it would be nice to do something on our own. 

    Can you tell me about the Tetons part of your trip? That could be part of a Plan B for us.

  7. 15 minutes ago, denibug72 said:

    Our troop is in the midst of planning a western HA trip including Yellowstone right now.  The permit process has changed to a lottery this year, so we're not sure how things are going to shake out.  Basically, you pay $10 to get a spot in the lottery, and you might get a chance at a permit.  We've got a short backpacking segment in Yellowstone, but we're trying to come up with Plan A, B, C, D, and E just in case sites are booked before we can get in the system to get them.  We've been scrambling to get other campsites also.  The council that runs Camp Buffalo Bill is short staffed & in the middle of a merger, so when we contacted them about staying there for one night, they said it might be possible, but wouldn't know for at least a few more weeks.  

     

    I did see that they, and other areas, are doing the lottery thing rather than the Ticketmaster method. I was thinking if Plan A, backcountry permits, doesn't work, Plan B would be trying to get one of the many campsites in the area and do day hikes. Then drive south and do a few days in the Cirque of the Towers, which currently doesn't require permits.

    Plan C, well, that could be more backpacking in the Wind River Range or something else with no permits required.

    The thing that makes me most nervous is not having first hand experience there. Also, it's not like going to Philmont the first time where the whole place is set up for scout troops.

    I've watched some videos of people doing the Cirque loop. It seems clear going clockwise over Texas Pass is easier than counterclockwise. I wouldn't worry if I went by myself, but what about 8-10 scouts?

    Please update this post or make your own with what you end up doing. I think many others would benefit from that knowledge.

  8. 18 hours ago, BlueandSilverBear said:

    I was on an ill-fated backpacking trip out of Camp Buffalo Bill 20 years ago… 

    https://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/texas-boy-scouts-head-for-home-after-being-stranded-overnight/article_93767415-3367-5b9d-bfae-fd2f0e8386fc.html

    The situation was more due to physical limitations of some of our adult leaders, but a wild one for sure.

    Beautiful country and the highlight of my youth Scouting experience!

    Yikes! While doing cost estimates, I'm including the cost of service for a Garmin InReach mini. I'm willing to buy it (and likely sell in eBay when done).

    I'm not sure I'd do much off trail stuff in an area I wasn't familiar with when on a scout trip.

     

  9. I think this might be a good time for national to reevaluate the charter org model. Troops shouldn't have to rely on a church or other organization to be able to exist. 

    We've seen where these other organizations have different philosophical views and that can lead to them taking it out on troops. I can also see them worried about liability, whether real or perceived.

    • Upvote 2
  10. 1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    Frustrating.  When we cannot get basic administrative tasks dealing with membership right, our confidence in the integrity of all other processes erodes.

    Best of luck as you wade through the mess.

    Have you spoken directly with your registrar?

    Our Committee Chair is doing that. She handles rechartering. She handed the check directly to the rep along with some paperwork. He separated the 2 in his folders and I think that's why we were not credited for paying.

  11. I got an email that we weren't rechartered because we didn't pay. I had our treasurer send proof that they deposited our check.

    Now I noticed that one of our scouts and his mom are no longer showing up in Scoutbook. He has the same first and last name as another scout in our troop who aged out but is now a registered adult with our troop. We had problems with his account in the past because of it.

    My son just aged out but registered as an adult. He now appears twice in Scoutbook both as a scout, not adult.

    Scouts who left our troop and did not re-register still appear in Scoutbook.

    Calling this a mess is really an insult to messes.

    Our Charter Org is our homeowners association and not to blame here at all.

  12. 22 hours ago, MattR said:

    That would be much prettier than Philmont.

    There is a scout camp 8 miles from Yellowstone- Camp Buffalo Bill (campbuffalobill.com) that has a program that uses Yellowstone. I'm not sure but maybe you could just use their camp as a campsite for day hikes. It wouldn't be free but it would be nicer than the tent camping in Yellowstone.

    While wind river might not have permit requirements they might have a "number of heartbeats" (so people and pack animals) requirements for group size. 

    Yes, they have a limit, but I believe it was 15, so more than we would take. We wouldn't even need to  count some of the scouts as livestock.

  13. 45 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

    I can't think of many places that even have highly knowledge people anymore. REI is the only one that comes to mind. 

    Yeah, you can find experts on the internet, though. You can also find people posing as experts.

    You can learn a lot, including footwear reviews, from the king of backpacking, Andrew Skurka on his website, www.andrewskurka.com

    He also has a video on YouTube for selecting 5 star campsites and one of my favorite parts is him saying don't pick a spot a Boy Scout troop would take. :) 

    He gives a good explanation why.

    r/Ultralight on Reddit is another good place for getting advice.

    • Thanks 1
  14. As others have said, what fits me won't fit you, necessarily. Topo Terraventure and Altra Lone Peaks are good options for hiking due to their wide toe boxes. This can greatly reduce blisters.

    If you're trying to lighten your pack, as everyone should, start by putting EVERYTHING in lighterpack.com and weigh everything. I got a cheap digital food scale when we were building pinewood derby cars and now it's my gear weight tool. Don't cheat as you're only cheating yourself. Ounces become pounds. Getting under 14 pounds base weight (before consumables) for 3 season backpacking should be pretty easy.

    The cheapest way to lighten your pack is leave stuff at home. No duplicates.

    And this link will go through most of the gear you need and offers great advice in great detail.

    https://imgur.com/a/syQvBre

    A scout is thrifty. Here is a way to go ultralight on a budget.

     

    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 1
  15. 35 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    A troop in our district did. This was more than a decade ago, sI don’t think I have the materials online. But is was cost effective and they seemed to enjoy some challenging hikes above the tree line.

    Thanks. I went there when my wife and I went skiing in Big Sky 20 years ago. That was just a day trip. Apparently Old Faithful is less faithful these days, but still impressive.

    I'm working on presenting multiple viable options to the troop. Viable for a group is the greatest challenge. I always want high adventure to be a very different experience from what they can get here in Virginia. Philmont, NT and Sea Base do that. This might be my last HA trip with the troop, so I suggested we try something different and build our own trip rather than just rotate the national ones (NT would be up next).

    This one, if I can make it work, would be my top choice. Spend a few days in Yellowstone then drive south and spend a few days to do Cirque of the Towers.

    • Like 1
  16. My next area to research for a do it yourself high adventure trip in 2023 is Yellowstone. Has anyone been able to get a group backcountry permit? Another option is using campgrounds and day hike.

    I might combine this with a loop of Cirque of the Towers as the Wind River Range is a bucket list place for me. I know it gets crowded there, but at least there are no permit issues (yet).

  17. On 1/26/2022 at 9:37 AM, MattR said:

    We split the group in two and each half did something like 4 days kayaking while the other went hiking. Then we swapped.. You could go kayaking twice!

    Or, maybe you can teach this guy to be comfortable in the water. It could be an incredible adventure for him.

    Sorry I didn't respond sooner. He's in his mid 50s and has made it clear he will not do water.

    I likely can't get 4 adults for this trip to split up. I'm already struggling this year to get enough for summer camp and Philmont. And we're going to have to make it clear to parents if they don't help out, these things don't happen.

  18. 2 minutes ago, MattR said:

    Sea kayaking. We rented equipment and had a guide (ocean currents and tankers are not to be trifled with) but the experience was incredible for us land locked folk.

    I have 1 adult who is a non-swimmer. He grew up on a farm in Wisconsin and never learned. I should have myself and another adult, so if he was OK with sitting that out, it would be an option. He also used to travel with a former Secretary of Defense who had a place in that area, so he suggested the whale watching.

  19. I'm still gathering ideas to present to the troop for a roll your own 2023 high adventure trip. The Olympics in Washington looks like a fantastic place with a lot of variety. 

    Hike the Hoh River Trail to the Blue Glacier. Enchanted Valley Chalet. Beach trails. Then maybe have a side activity for whale watching.

    I'm thinking of a 10-12 day trip and we would rent a van to take us from trailhead to trailhead. Backpack a few days in each area.

    It looks like you need to go on recreation.gov 6 months ahead and book day 1, then next day book day 2, etc. for each area.

    Just curious if anyone here has experience in this area and can make suggestions.

    Thanks!

  20. 10 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    I had a backpacking trip in Inyo last year. I forgot to ask my NP for altitude sickness pills during my annual physical, so I went to a CVS Minute Clinic.

    It was that NP's first day by herself. The tech who checked me in asked why I'd come and I said I wanted altitude sickness meds. She said they'd have to refer me for a psych exam. I said altitude, not attitude. She was still confused.

    I finally got to the NP. She said she had to call a colleague. She prescribed me motion sickness meds and said it did the same thing. Huh?

    Next day a more experienced NP called and said, uh, she prescribed you the wrong meds and after a basic call about my health, prescribed the right meds.

    I know altitude sickness can be debilitating. I took the meds the day before and for the next 2 days. Then I stopped. I was fine. I also had 1.5 days at altitude before starting the backpacking part. That's one of the best ways to prevent getting sick.

  21. 1 hour ago, MattR said:

    There are a lot of nice backpacking trails in Colorado. So much that I've never been to Philmont. Philmont isn't about beauty, so I understand why scouts would like it.

    To answer your question, no, I haven't taken scouts to the San Juans. So you can get better specific trail information from others. However, in other HA trips I've taken scouts in Colorado and Wyoming, the things I'd be aware of is that

    1) June in the high country is not summer, it's late winter/early spring and I've had 10 foot snow drifts to deal with over July 4th. Given the run off, trails can be very wet and muddy.

    2) The biggest mistake we ever made was to go backpacking about 2 weeks after everything thawed out. Talk about mosquitoes. A few of the scouts also did the boundary waters before our trip and they said the mosquitoes in Southern Wyoming were much worse. Two weeks later and they would have mostly been gone.

    3) Altitude sickness is real and random. Scouts that are carrying extra body weight can really suffer going up those hills when they have half the oxygen they're used to. Dehydration and lightning.

    4) All that bad stuff said, the views are incredible. The scouts may not respond like the adults but they will remember. Years later I've talked to a few and they now have an appreciation of nature. Something stuck with them, even if part of it was playing cards in their tents while waiting out rain or bugs.

    Yeah, I know what you mean about the bugs. Well, at least I've read it enough times to understand. I think if we do a trip like this, we'd need to go early August.

    Can you tell me about your Wyoming trip? That's also under consideration. I'm not sure if we could go late enough in the summer to be there at an ideal time.

  22. We're still considering our "roll your own" high adventure options for 2023. One option I want to present to the troop is doing about 6 days in the Weminuche Wilderness in Colorado.

    We've rotated through the national high adventure camps and are looking to save a little money and do something on our own. This also might be my last as scoutmaster.

    We're in northern VA outside of DC and I like having the scouts experience something very different from what we have in our area.

    This is one of the top backpacking areas in the the country and no permits are required, which simplifies things for a group. Andrew Skurka has taken groups here, so I know it's good.

    I'm curious if any of you have taken a group of scouts here for backpacking and what your thoughts are.  Thanks!

  23. 2 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

    The usage of alcohol by abusers to entice victims for sexual pleasure/perversion was one of the most common methods used

    When I read follow on posts that came after this where only the merits of the brand and other brands are discussed but not one condemnation I wonder if this practice of taking alcohol on campouts by adults still occur.

     

     

    You think making fun of beer brands means I condone using alcohol to molest scouts? That's quite a leap. I really didn't think it was necessary for me to criticize something so obviously horrible.

    On another forum I strongly criticized scouters who said they would get a beer when coming off trail at Philmont. You're on duty 24/7 until the last scout is picked up at any scouting event. 

    • Upvote 3
  24. Well, to sum up my views on this, 18-21 year olds should not have the YPT restriction outside of scouting. I might make that for friends within 2 years of age of the now adult scout. This is similar to the relatively new tenting age restriction.

    It would be great to have more women involved. That is separate from the sexist YPT restriction that is different for female and male adult leaders. Having more restrictive rules for men than you have for women is sexist. I also find it insulting.

    And I do think those who make these rules don't consider that they are imposing them on volunteers and I doubt many of them have to live with all of these rules.

    • Upvote 2
×
×
  • Create New...