69RoadRunner

On 8/4/2022 at 10:05 PM, denibug72 said:

@69RoadRunner I finally have time to update on our Yellowstone trip.  The permit process wasn't too bad.  All four of the adults grabbed spots in the lottery, and two of them got picked for dates towards the end of April.  We had the original itinerary, but since the dates were so late in April, we came up with 4 other options in case that one was taken on our dates.  We managed to get the route we wanted, but had to reverse the direction to get the campsites that fit our group.  It seemed like a pretty smooth process to get the permit, but we have no idea what the rest of the trip would have been like.  We ended up spending a half day there - as our first day in the park was the day they shut it down from the flooding.  The boys got to see Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone and Old Faithful before all the amenities shut down & we had to leave the park.

The majority of the rest of the trip was planned as we went, and it became a Grand Teton trip instead.  Somehow we were able to get the group sites that we needed to regroup & try to figure out our next steps.  We were even able to get a permit for a 3 day backpacking trip, and salvage part of the plan.  All in all...a very memorable trip on many levels.

For our transportation - our 12 passenger van was upgraded to a 15 passenger the day before we left.  It ended up that the passenger van carried the boys, and the minivan carried the gear.  We took a few seats out of the passenger van to give the boys room to stretch out, and still have the seatbelts we needed to take everyone in one vehicle when needed.  Not our original plan...but it worked well for us.

Thank you very much!!

40 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I'm not sure about Summit, but BSA pay for staffers is far less than other summer camps in my area. Talking with some, camps are paying around $800 per week for staff.   My daughter has gone to several camps and there appears to be no shortage. 

BSA needs to learn about capitalism.... If you want staff, you need to pay.  These kids have options for summer jobs.  Now, that also means you probably make less profit from summer camps and likely need to charge more.  My BSA summer camp also had shortages of staff, the major impact was the riffle and shotgun ranges where they didn't really have much of an open shoot. 

We were told they had 50 people sign contracts and then not show up. I do sympathize with that problem.

At both Philmont and Summit, it just seems like the paid adult staff see adult volunteer participants as just being an extension of their paid staff rather than customers.

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Comments I heard from staff this past week:

"I know what the Scout Handbook says, but we don't do it that way here, so we don't teach it that way."  Reference to knife sharpening...

"If your compass has a bubble in it, it won't point the right way." https://www.advnture.com/features/compass-bubbles

"Scouts who are not swimmers can go in a canoe with a buddy if that Scout is a swimmer." 

"We play To The Colors first, then Retreat while lowering the flag because is is a slower tune.  And that is what we have always done..." 

"We gathered the whole staff to go out and try to scare the bear off of camp property." 

"I don't really know how to define a mammal."  Mammal Study MB Instructor at beginning of class.

"I don't see a problem with a Troop performing 'Amish Paradise' for the campfire."

Profanity, profanity, profanity...

etc. etc. etc.

Gotta pay the fees into the Victim's Compensation Fund!

When we were sentenced to Camp Covid at Philmont this summer after an adult tested positive, I was awakened by everyone singing Happy Birthday to a mountain lion.

Allegedly, 1 person saw a mountain lion. When we saw several sets of eyes in the woods adjacent to the camp, a 19 year old ranger thought we were surrounded by mountain lions.

Uh, the only animal dumb enough to just stand there and stare while 50 people sing loudly and shine headlamps is not a mountain lion. It's deer.

Just now, Eagle94-A1 said:

I may need to tell my troop Summit is off the list. That is one camp someone wanted to look into.

The kids had a great time. The cost just keeps skyrocketing. Their web site says over $500 for next year for the merit badge camp.

Just now, Eagle94-A1 said:

Did 2 adults get in for free? Camp we  went to did that, and extra adults are 1/2 price of the Scouts.

Nobody was free. And they wanted to charge us extra to get a site in the trees. We rejected that.

4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

WOW. I have not attended a camp that charged full price for adults, although I know about 1 of them.

Yep. $435 plus a $50 Covid fee.

Fortunately, I'm told our scouts had a great time. The adults were not expecting to employees for the week. 

Asking adults to take a week of leave, pay over $400 and then expecting them to do the work of the full time staff made their week less than enjoyable.

Again, I do sympathize with the camps. Everyone is struggling from camps to restaurants. But they should take the money they set aside for wages and give it to the adults performing those jobs. It's not right for them to not do that. Show some respect to the volunteers who saved your camp.

Philmont and Summit are both experiencing staffing shortages and adult leaders are having to make up for it. I genuinely sympathize with them. It's a problem everywhere and I know it's got to be driving people who have to deal with it crazy.

Our troop did merit badge camp at Summit last week. Summit had 50 people sign contracts to work and not show up. One of our adults had to teach Brownsea Island for the week. Two others had to run fishing.

Here's my problem. They charged our adults over $400 each for the week. Summit expected to be paying staff to do jobs that our adults ended up volunteering to do. Why are we paying full price and then doing these jobs ? Shouldn't they pay our adults since they're not paying staff?

Our adults stepped up and made things work because it's for the kids. But you can't treat your customers like this and expect them to come back.

I told our troop last year that I'm retiring as scoutmaster this year. I'm burned out for many reasons This just adds to it. I just don't get the impression that Scouts BSA cares much about the volunteers.

8 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

As in "impassable" to get to Point, or didn't want to send vehicles to Ponil?  Do you know which?

Interesting comment.  As most packs aren't waterproof, the pack material will absorb water adding weight.

Too muddy. Every vehicle going into the backcountry had to be approved by upper management.

30 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Yes, but.....

 

We did still have a good time and got to summit Baldy. Hopefully things will improve for crews and staff this summer.

They are short staffed (hire taller staff?) and the bathrooms/showers aren't cleaned frequently. Some were downright nasty.

An adult in our crew got sick with Covid on trail. He had to hike with us to Ponil to be extracted because rain made roads to Elkhorn impassable. His son said he wasn't feeling well but tested negative. He was also taken to the infirmary. He returned a little later after testing negative again.

They told us they were pulling the rest of us healthy members from trail because they're in 2020 mode. But they couldn't get vehicles to Ponil to extract us. We'd be stuck in a campsite in 50 degree weather and nonstop rain and nothing to do. The guy who is in charge of Ponil put us in a workshop, dried our clothes and fed us Elk spaghetti. We will be forever grateful.

Next day we were sentenced to 5 days in Camp Covid, aka The Leper Colony, aka Herradura where we could day hike and maybe fish. We were fuming. The GM threatened to send us home when we expressed our frustrations to him. I had pointed out that both the CDC and state of New Mexico state that if you're vaxxed/boosted and asymptomatic you don't need to isolate when exposed to someone with Covid. 

After 2 days, he changed his mind and we got an early release because our entire crew was the only one fully vaxxed and boosted and we finished our trek. Just like the health experts say and I had pointed out.

Sending healthy people all to the same camp due to 1 member testing positive is not the way to handle this. We're not at basecamp, we're outside where transmission is greatly reduced and distancing from staff and others is easy. 

On to gear and other odds and ends.

White gas stoves are like points ignition. Canister stoves are like electronic ignition.

 

On 5/26/2022 at 10:03 PM, tnmule20 said:

@69RoadRunnerDoes Sea Base allow a campfire on Big Munson? 

I don't recall us having a campfire at our campsite. I don't think there would be enough wood if every crew had one every night.

31 minutes ago, Better4itall said:

As an older Scouter, I've got a mild gripe here.  Not to diminish the work of the fire crews or others doing everything they can to battle this or other fires.  

I trekked Philmont in 1971, and we cooked over wood fires made from deadfall and dead branches still on trees (gold in rainy weather).  We heard a rumor that they were shifting to lightweight stoves in the next year or two while we were there, and it was an accurate rumor.  So that means there is 50 years of fuel now piled up on the forest floors of Philmont.  And we see the results.  Might be time to go back to old school cooking methods, and start clearing some of that accumulation before it's done for us.  Anyone listening?  

We went in 2019, the year after the big fire that went through Philmont. We had a fire every night. This was encouraged specifically to reduce the amount of fuel on the ground for wildfires.

I believe over 20,000 people go through Philmont every year. We saw crews having fires every night. I would venture that more dead wood is cleared now than in 1971 with that many crews.

Zastrow cabin destroyed.

Two months later, I still can't get our recharter problems fixed by anyone at District. The volunteer didn't have the right access and the professional is new (they seem to have a revolving door). Her boss is mostly unresponsive.

I still have 4 messed up accounts. So I can't just send messaged through Scoutbook. I have to then also forward the message to the people with messed up accounts and not everyone can RSVP.

It's tough enough getting people to read my emails. I don't get paid enough for this.

Philmont is now under mandatory evacuation "Go!" status.

https://www.krqe.com/news/wildfires/fire-reported-in-colfax-county/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR0ikS__WSf3YkDXBJ0yud5XQHJaLc_RAQvL0jAx0fQ9Wjc2hMMXmLqD7GI

NEW MEXICO (KRQE) – A fire started April 17, around 4:15 p.m. in northeastern New Mexico located on private land north of Ocate near the Mora and Colfax County lines.

NM Highway 120 from mile marker 14 to 26 and areas east of County Road CR009, north of NM Highway 120, Rayado, Sweetwater, Miami, and Sunnyside, and the Philmont Scout Ranch are under mandatory evacuation and set to Go! Status.

CR009 and Highway 120 from milepost 14 to the 26, and the junction of HWY 120 and HWY 442 are closed.

Keep the first responders and all those affected by this wildfire in your prayers. I might need to come up with a Plan B for our Philmont trip this year, but I hope it won't be necessary.

<edit> Noticed the link to treks at the top.

17 hours ago, UKScouterInCA said:

There is a ship you can book a trip on in the San Juan islands?

https://www.sssodyssey.org/bsa-charters-details

Or if you start considering something further south, the Sierra Nevada is awesome. Though backcountry permits have been crazy to get this year. One seemingly long term effect of the pandemic (or maybe the Insta craze) is that EVERYONE wants to get into the backcountry.

Yeah, the permits for the High Sierra make it a challenge.

I think we're leaning toward Yellowstone/Wind River Range now. The possibility of nothing but rain in the Olympics has pushed that option down the list.

For car camping with the troop, I have a Jetboil with the largest pot and the French press accessory. I pour the coffee into a Thermos to keep it hot.

About 8 tablespoons of course ground coffee for a 1 liter Jetboil.

Boil the water. Stir in the 8 tablespoons of coffee. Let the coffee sit for about 5 minutes.

Slowly push the press down to the bottom.

Pour the coffee into the Thermos.

I've never mastered the percolator.

For backpacking, instant is the only thing that makes sense to me. I don't want to deal with the grounds, which LNT says you should pack out, despite what many people incorrectly say.

One thing to always remember is that the rules imposed by national are created by people who don't have to live with them and make them work. They are also created by people who, in my opinion, are more focused on the big picture of keeping the organization financially solvent. That second part is definitely necessary, but it can come at the cost of frustrating the VOLUNTEERS who have to make their decisions work.

I'm sure they will deny it, vigorously, but I don't get the impression that National and Council leadership cares much about the effects their decisions have on us or if we don't like their decisions.

We haven't done a camporee in years because the scouts said it was the least enjoyable activity. It was the only activity I did because I had to be there, not because I wanted to. I hated being crammed together with other troops, many of whom disregarded quiet hours. Adults next to us started their breakfast at 4:30am. I really had to censor myself when I asked them what they were doing. They said their troop starts early. Fine, if you're by yourselves, go ahead. That was our last camporee.

And if you've got some very small troop struggling to survive, support their efforts to live. But I also get the impression that national would prefer consolidation of troops into fewer, but bigger troops. Well, you're going to have to dump the dumb (IMHO) charter organization way of operating for that.

Just my 1 cent. It's really not worth 2 cents.

59 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Actually its the urban areas with traffic lights that cause much of the problem because the following drivers will take risks to keep up with the lead driver when lights change between vehicles, or they quickly change lanes when traffic gets heavy. I've witnessed two near collisions in those scenarios. It's better that each driver gets the next stop on their own. That may still be only a few blocks apart, but the following driver isn't being motivated to catch up. As for the van without a 2nd driver, might consider a mature scout who can help navigate and attend with the passengers. I even did an Eagle BOR in that situation on the way to Philmont.

Barry

I think we're saying the same thing. The urban areas are the most dangerous when trying to follow someone.