Not sure what vespers are (other than an evening prayer).  Assume they are some sort of benches, worship area?

Sounds like neither Scout has gotten a project proposal developed or approved. 

2 possible options. 

1 - Does the work entail enough that is could be two projects?  If benches or a worship area, maybe one Scout does the front X rows and the other Scout expands the project and does the back X rows?

2 - First come first serve

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I personally encouraged activities until we were told to stop. 

We continue with dodgeball (or extreme catch) and vegetable cannons.  But we're sort of rogue sometimes

10 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

While working on the two projects I mentioned earlier this semester, I am developing a plan for expanding Scouting into underserved areas.  In doing so, I have been reading a lot about youth programs in general and Scouting in particular.  One thing stood out to me.  Scouting survived WWI because the PLCs took over and ran the units while the adults were off at war.  During Desert Storm, my troop was in the same situation.  Our adult leaders were fighter pilots or ground crew and deployed.  That left me and another 16 y/o to run the troop for 8 months.  According to the G2SS, we were not allowed to meet.  I understand the necessity in normal times, but there needs to be some flexibility built in and it needs to be stated.  

Remember, the G2SS is written and updated by lawyers, professional staff, and volunteers who have not been involved at the actual unit level for many many (if ever) years.  The goal of G2SS is not actual safety, but legal mitigation.  Most of it is common sense, but many of the details are at best mind numbing.

The wizards of the G2SS do not understand the patrol method and the promise of Scouting (Scouts BSA at least) is to have youth leading and handling their own adventures, being independent, being responsible.  If it was up to the G2SS folks the whole thing would be Family Camping, no youth allowed without the adult partner, thus moving any risk away from BSA.

The current track of the BSA seems to be focused on Cub Scouts and the Family camping.  Also to make Scouts BSA more book centered, less outdoor adventure and make sure each Scout has a caretaker.  If they can figure a way to do away with the Scout troops out doing risky things in the wilderness, that is the path forward.

9 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I'm on the fence about WB.  What put me on the fence was having a beading ceremony during our den meetings night that took about 30 minutes.  The kids - K through 3rd grade - had no idea what was going on, other than some adult stranger was giving a den leader a neckerchief and talking a lot.  They were bored.  Violated the Keep it Fun principle.  If I did WB, I would do the ceremony at an adult event.  I like to keep the program youth focused.  About the only thing I would want to do related to adults is to hand out square knots with a quick round of applause at the end of an awards ceremony.  I make it a point to thank the adults regularly anyway.  It's a habit I carry over from work, where I thank my team for their hard work every few days.

We had a leader who got beaded (is that a verb??) at a regular meeting.  Supposedly was going to be a 5 minute portion of the meeting.  Actually was about 45 minutes.  To our Scouts credit they sat through it.  Bets comment was one of our leaders who stage voiced to the other guys in the back "this is why I never want to go to WB"

At the end of the day it is training.  There are many things in Scouts that take at least as much (or more) time commitment as WB.  This is ADULT training, and should be awarded, if wanted, in a setting where those that can appreciate it are in attendance.  Saw one going on at a the local camp one weekend where it was other WB disciples and they were beading folks.  Keep it in-house.

On 11/1/2021 at 10:24 AM, Eagle1993 said:

I have a gay non binary scout in my Troop. 

This is in fact a serious question.  If Non Binary is an umbrella term for gender identities that are neither male nor female‍; identities that are outside the gender binary, how could they also be gay as they do not identify as male of female?

Just curious as I would think they would identify as one (gay) or the other (non-binary).

1 hour ago, Dixit said:

http://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/merit_badge_reqandres/CitizenshipSociety_Counselors.pdf

A good bit of "document and discuss" "research" "consider".  Very much a classroom exercise

Requirement 6 will be interesting: Interesting it could be a Scout

With your parent’s or guardian’s approval, connect with another Scout or youth your own age who has an identity that’s different from yours. (This means a trait, belief, or characteristic different from you.)

Requirement 7 could be also interesting.  The historical figure will be the path many will choose

Identify and interview an individual in your community, school, and/or Scouting who has had a significant positive impact in promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. If you feel your community, school, or local Scouting group does not have such an individual, then research a historical figure who meets these criteria,and discuss that person with your counselor

16 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

 

 

"Some requirements may need parents permission"

Oh...do tell..

15 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Dates are now official.

November 2021 launch

Eagle Required if board of review after July 1, 2022.

So....like next month??

On 10/21/2021 at 9:58 AM, tnmule20 said:

 

 

• Appointing DEI leads for each of our 16 National Service Territories to partner with the leaders and troops within their territories to implement and advance our commitment to DEI. As part of this effort, we are also implementing new programs to increase recruitment and retention of diverse employees. 

• Expanding and further supporting our five Workforce Resource Groups for employees – for members of the affinity and their allies– APACK for our Asian Pacific workforce, BSA View for our LGBTQ+ workforce, LISTOS for our Latino workforce, RISE for our women’s workforce, and The Village for our Black workforce. Each Workforce Resource Group aims to cultivate an environment where employees can seek support, mentorship, networking, and opportunities to educate, generate awareness, and foster a culture where everyone has a sense of belonging.

Some observations (Similar to what others have noted)

- BSA National laid off tons of staff and continues to eliminate actual program facing staff, but they are going to add staff for DEI.  Assuming basic expected pay and benefits this will be likely over $3 MM annually in expenses

- Note that there are 5 workforce resource groups.  I guess if you are disabled, indigenous persons, or white you are pretty much not welcomed.  Interesting that the DEI head would support exclusionary and segregated groups within the workforce.  I guess my definition of inclusion must be different

35 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Question to current scout leaders. What do you tell current scouts and or their parents if asked about the current bankruptcy and the child sexual abuse in the past?

If asked we advise that BSA National is in litigation, the landscape is fluid.  There were abuses in the past and BSA continues to strive to correct.  Locally with our unit, to our knowledge, there are not any cases.  The goal is to keep it that way and be aware that not being aware can lead to problems.

On YPT out unit does adhere to the standards and all leaders understand the why of the standards.  If someone is meeting with a Scout prior to a meeting for some reason, we have another leader there and the meeting is out in the open.  After the troop meeting we always have 2 leaders stay until all Scouts are picked up.  Same for outings.  For outings leaders camp a distance from youth, when we wander the site to check on things, usually it is two of us.

For communications we attempt to include others, challenge is on e-mails most youth have no idea how to Reply all.  Easier with text.  Our Social Media platforms are open, no tagging, and any comments are public as are any questions.  Multiple leaders have admin access.

We have the families review the pamphlet in the Scout handbook and advise they have covered this with their Scouts.

It means someone spilled a cocktail in the server room

Smoke, sparks, general mayhem, weird red x's appearing in the lower right corner, the forum is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions, Old Testament real wrath-of-God type stuff; Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling; Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes…The dead rising from the grave; Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria.

We sometimes have the conversation with our Scouts "Why do we camp in the rain?"  Their first responses are we're dumb, we can't read the weather maps, etc etc.

The discussion leads to that if you are planning to have an outing, and if you wait for all the conditions to be perfect, you will likely never leave the porch.  It is sort of like that in life; not the perfect time to attend that school, not the best time to start that business, maybe a better time to take that job, make that investment, marry that spouse, take that trip; etc etc.

Rather than look for reasons NOT do something, look for reason TO DO something.  It may not be perfect, you may have to change or update plans, but action is better than no action.

At the end of the day, you may end up camping in the rain (or snow, or heat, or ice)...and having a great and memorable time.

There was a call this week for our council area on UMC and Scouting.  To say that the input was muddled would be kind.

UMC has very real concerns and will not commit to anything until there is clarity from the BSA.  The BSA, at least locally, has no real plan.  Maybe units go find another CO, maybe not, maybe it will work out, whatever.

Sad truth is, at least in our council, the concern for the actual units that are doing Scouting does not exist.  Our feeling is they would be fine if we all just faded away, they could run the Scout units in the inner city neighborhoods (which are good thing and service that area), with the hired leaders (Scouting Program Specialist) and drive on.  They can still raise money, still have Scouts, but don't have to worry about the pesky troops out in the woods.  Do you have Scouts to be able to raise money OR do you raise money to have Scouts?  In our council it is definitely option 1.  Looks good on paper

When asked about what our next steps for recharter, no real input.  Maybe don't have any outings in January until this shakes out.  What a joke

3 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

WARNING!   Warning!   Tangent !!!

I really wish the program went back to that.  Younger siblings can be friends of the pack, but Lions and Tigers are killing have killed the cub program.  

I fixed that for you

Lions and Tigers...oh my

22 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

There was an infamous program scoutpower of 1976 I think it was called where hundreds of scouts and dozens of units were created on paper.

as long as the checks cleared to pay for the scouts registration people didn’t care. Inflated numbers worked just fine.

Boypower 76 - Heralded by CSE Alden Barber.  Big old Crash and Burn. The resignation is sort of underscored in the following article snippet.  Left the profession "to pursue other interests"  The plan was for 1/3 of all boys to be in Scouting by the Bicentennial (1976).  This led to widespread phantom units.  The epicenter was Chicago, but the impact was in all councils..  Took many years to shake out.  Sort of rinse lather and repeat with Scouting for Life issues in the Early 2000's

In October 1967, he was appointed by the BSA National Executive Board as Chief Scout Executive. During his tenure, there was a strong membership development emphasis called "Boypower 76" which stressed the goal of reaching a representative one third of all boys in the country by serving more minority youth and urban youth. He worked with volunteers and staff to reshape program elements for the core Boy Scouting program during a major 1972 revision. These major changes included a completely new Scout Handbook, complete revision for Boy Scout rank advancement requirements, addition of "skill awards", and multiple uniform options (including the introduction of the visor cap and beret). Some of the program changes were well received, but other changes, particularly those that emphasized urban activities over camping and out-of-town trips, were criticized. He resigned his position before the normal retirement age, due in part to BSA experiencing membership declines and internal issues.

5 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I’d did and it looked bad. I will say I have been more impressed with people like Bryan Wendell, Richard Bourlon and Anthony Berger.  I’ve found them more accessible than most professionals and while in some cases I don’t agree with all decisions at least I see some transparency and communication from them.  I’ll also argue that BSA has been doing a great job improving their IT.
 

That said, BSA needs to improve their transparency, reduce their board and hold members accountable, get inspirational leaders (inspirational for youth) who are held accountable by members.   This is not just an issue since bankruptcy.  I’ve been impressed by other scouting orgs who seem to have more transparency and get to hold their leaders accountable.   
 

Hopefully after bankruptcy we will see change, but I’m not holding my breath based on what I am seeing now.  

I continue to be underwhelmed by the BSA professional leadership at the National and Local levels.  Transparency is not in their vocabulary.  Neither is communication.

Noticed a random note on our district e-blast (which typically has "no new content") about cub recruiting and the Field Director who assisted.  Apparently our DE, which is number 5 (maybe 6??) in the last 8 years has left.  No notice from council on that occurrence.  Then they wonder why the turnover is so bad as they don't regard them very highly and we do not get attached to them.

In our district we are roughly 50% UMC units, but little to no direction or leadership from the council.  But hopefully you'll fill in that FOS and sell that popcorn.

UMC and the council of Bishops is recommending / strongly advising / instructing local churches to NOT sign the charters.  At this point it's not a NO, but remember that the ministers are assigned and are under the direction of the conferences that roll up to the main UMC.  As this moves along, a local UMC church may want to charter a troop but it may be not allowed in the book of discipline.  Side note: To actually update the UMC Book of Discipline would be a major thing, but you get my drift

Candidly, the BSA will need to get a path forward without the Charter Organization model.  The BSA (National) pretty much tossed the CO's under the bus during the proposed bankruptcy settlement.  No group will likely want to be a partner with BSA as the question is;  can they be trusted? 

Yes the January 21 CO agreement denotes insurance as a responsibility of the local council (note this is local council and not National BSA)

• Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the Charter Organization, its board, officers, Charter Organization Representative (COR), employees, and adult volunteers for authorized Scouting activities. Indemnify the Charter Organization in accordance with the resolutions and policies of the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America.
• “The general liability policy issued to the Boy Scouts of America provides primary liability insurance coverage for all chartered organizations for liability arising out of their sponsorship of a traditional Scouting unit. Evanston Insurance Company provides the first $1 million per occurrence coverage. Additional policies, all providing primary coverage to the chartered organization, have been purchased so that more than $10 million in primary coverage is provided. There is no coverage for those who commit intentional or criminal acts. Liability insurance is purchased to provide financial protection in the event of accidents or injury that is neither expected nor intended

However, will that be enough and once lawsuits against CO's crank up?  May be game over for the CO model

We, as a UMC troop are seeing what the landscape is and what out future may or may not hold.

55 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

The encounter could create a time paradox, the result of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's worst-case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy.

I would posit it would be a logic paradox rather than a time paradox.  It would be localized at first, then as more logic is questioned; the Zero tolerance rules at Schools, mattress tags that can't be removed, and 5 screens of signing up with websites just to buy something; that paradox would grow, sucking in the local area.

As it grew, sort of like a hurricane, it would become a logicnado, absorbing all light and matter into the event horizon.  Only by solid reasoning and calm deliberation could be logicnado be defeated.  As we are painfully short on both, our destiny would be sealed, only the billionaires with their personal spaceships would survive, for about an extra 15 minutes.

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

The rule pertaining to no one on one contact between scouts and adults is a youth protection standard.

YPT is not a “game”.

And adult scout leaders keeping secrets is exactly how we got into 82,500 sexual abuse claims

Never said YPT was a game, it is not.  The comment Or you can just not play the game is related to the obviously overreach in the YPT requirements.   I was pointing out the position the YPT rules (note - not a game) puts leaders wanting to be compliant,  The rule "outside of scouting" is vague at best and a CYA by BSA at worst.  No other youth group, sports team, etc has compliance rules (likely short of arrests) that cover the same thing.

Nor is there a legitimate way to actually enforce said rule.  Great point on the 18 YO texting his 17 YO best friend about something.  Clear violation.  

Or you can just not play the game and sort of don't ask don't tell.  BSA National did that for years with girls in units, good for the goose, good for the gander

It's an option

The whole outside of Scouting is an interesting over reach and while it has good intentions, that is what the road to Hell is paved with

I think the best thing would be to rename the current Scouter Forum .... The Bankruptcy Forum.  (Honestly it's sort of that now) Then form a NEW forum called Scouter Forum Part 2 . 

Then those that want to diver deep into the  minutia, blue sky thoughts, what if's, and pure speculation of the bankruptcy and what may, may not, may never happen will have a home.  Put on the tinfoil hats and go to town.

Those that want to discuss and review actual Scouting program topics will have a home.

Just a thought.