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Posts posted by Jameson76

  1. 4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    I am dealing with a Scout in a Similar situation. He has exactly 12 months 2 weeks to earn both Life and Eagle. He knew about this all along. And has had multiple opportunities to advance. He knows it is HIS RESPONSIBILITY to meet the  requirements and deadlines, not the adults.

    I am working with a Scout that joined when he was 15 or so.  Had been in Cubs, had friends in the troop they told him it was fun, so he joined (we felt good about that)  Also he wanted to do some High Adventure.  Last summer he went to HA, also 2 summer camps.  We sat down at camp and he said he hoped to be a Life Scout.  We did some math, looked at dates, and worked out a table of when he had to (last possible date) achieve ranks and he could earn Eagle.  

    He has been diligent and is ahead of the curve, just wrapped up Life.  Went to HA this summer and also a summer camp.  Nice to have an older youth in camp to serve as a JASM and backstop the camp SPL.  Has the POR and has just over 9 months to complete his Eagle requirements.  With the leaders we laid out his path, but it is his path.  He has to take the initiative.  As adults we advise, possibly remind, but at the end of the day, it is the SCOUT who needs to manage his timelines. 

    At the Star BOR's we work into the conversation the 6 months, and not to procrastinate as the calendar is a cruel mistress and the sands of time march along.

    When the Scout in the article completed Life HE should have looked at the calendar and been aware of the requirements.

    Got a couple of others that are in the process, but I get radio silence sometimes when I speak with them, get the "yeah I am working on it".  Remind them as straight forward as possible that 18th birthday is the deadline

  2. 33 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    But, some pro's should grow a pair, and speak plainly with a sentence like, "He didn't meet the requirements for Eagle, but he's a fine Life scout." No passing the buck to National. Call a spade a spade and then give the reporter your FOS speech and a pledge card.

    That is so true...Mr Stockton likely has compensation in the $200k (or better range) and he punts when there is a hard decision to make.  The requirements are very straightforward and clear.  The appeal should have been denied at the local council with the advice that if they wanted to, feel free to pursue with National.

  3. What some may call a Technicality, others will agree that the reason is not being able to fulfill the requirements..."Technically" 2 requirements of the 7

    1 - Be active in your troop, team, crew, or ship for a period of at least six months after you have achieved the rank of Life Scout.

    4 - While a Life Scout, serve actively in your unit for a period of six months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility. List only those positions served after your Life board of review date. ***

    • Boy Scout troop. Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, Venture patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor, webmaster, or Leave No Trace trainer.


    Details in the article


  4. 2 hours ago, CherokeeScouter said:

    How many districts or councils require these versus districts and councils that don't require them but instead do their own checks with the contact info provided on the Eagle App. 

    The reason I ask is that the App doesn't say specifically to provide references. It just says to provide names and info of people who would be willing to talk about the Scouts.

    And then an Eagle board member brought up some Scout regulation/provision that says references should be transmitted only via snail mail and not electronically.

    Snail mail would be an insane way to do references. No way to track them, ensure they were sent, etc. 

    Is he right? Snail mail only? 

    Actually the application does call out that the candidate does need to 

    - List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf.

    And from the G2A

    Must list all six (five if not employed). If not affiliated with an organized religion, then the parent or guardian provides this reference. There are no restrictions on who the Scout may list for his two other references. He can list anyone he chooses, including parents or guardians not previously listed, other relatives, Scout leaders including those from his unit, or other Scouts and friends. There is no requirement that any of the references be 21 years of age or older.


  5. 2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

    I understand that some adults desire sheltered, unadventurous lives for their kids where they never need to swim, tie a bowline,  hike uphill, camp in the rain, do CPR, secure a tourniquet, etc and will want a pass on learning such never-needed skills. That is not what the Scouting program is about.

    Correct, as the point many (oh so many) miss, it is not the destination, but the journey that makes the Scouting program valuable.  Just looking at swimming; there is the practical side and then the growth side.

    On the practical side, if you look at deaths among teenagers, about 50% are unintentional injuries.  Of those about 73% are vehicle, but drownings are 5% of those.  There is a real value in knowing how to swim, you may not drown.  Also in swimming MB and sessions a youth may actually get some knowledge on how to swim safely, maybe help a friend at some point

    On the growth side, swimming may take some youth out of their comfort zone, actually challenge them to accomplish a hard personal goal.  Again, part of the journey

    • Upvote 2

  6. On 8/9/2018 at 1:32 PM, RememberSchiff said:

    That was what I thought  but then I heard this Iowa interview  starting around  minute 2:55

    Sometime in 2019, we (Iowa) will have our first female Eagle Scout.

    We have groups currently waiting for young women to start...so in 2019 we will have the inaugural  class of girl Eagle scouts.

    There will be a big announcement...

    Confused? So am I.

    Good Lord this guy is all over the board.  Not sure he really understands what is actually going on at the unit level.  Sad that a "professional for 23 years" is as clueless as this dude is.

  7. Not much conversation in our district.  One of our two packs at the CO may be adding girls, but I believe they determined to hold off on Lions (comment was Holy Mother of God...6 years of Cubs!!!!)

    For the troop we are continuing business as usual.  Determination is that we will not be part of any linked troop.  If the CO and some currently unnamed folks want to start a Girls troop, we wish them well.  We would be glad to have a conversation on what has worked for us and best practices.

    • Upvote 1

  8. 4 minutes ago, VolcanoDunker said:

    That's a bit rude and uncalled for, qwazse, smiley face or not.  

    As an Eagle Scout, I can tell you from my experience we did this kind of thing all the time without these types of requirements when I was active in Scouting.  Unfortunately, because of outlier incidents in which kids have been hurt, and by the emergence of a highly litigious culture,  we have become a society that is trying to safety proof everything.  This is one more example of it. 

    But thanks anyways for the info.

    Do not shy away from an activity just for fear of litigation.  With that mindset, you may never leave the house.

    Anyway, for the activity:

    1. Take the Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat courses
    2. Follow them as detailed and enjoy the activity. 

    Put in some basic guidelines and mainly maintain discipline.  If canoeing the big issue is familiarity with actually canoeing.  Getting in and out is where you get injuries.  Orient and train them, practice holding the paddles, etc.  If swimming make sure you have the swim tests, and if in a lake, lots of kids these days do not have experience in the lake, scares them.  I have boys that are literally state swim meet competitors that freak out in the lake.

    We setup a swim area on our aquatics outing and one rule we have is they have to wear footwear as there may be hooks, small debris, etc that is not evident initially when sweeping the area.  Saves trouble.  Also we have lookouts and typically a kayak hanging out watching.

    If you are near a lake make sure you stress that the swimming area is the ONLY area for swimming.  Yes they can walk along, skip rocks, fish, etc but only swim with leaders around and only in designated area.  Same for the boats and canoes.  We do boating and tubing, always let them jump off the boats as long as they have PFD's on.  We set the expectation upfront that we will have fun, they can enjoy the activities, but no variance on safety expectations.

    • Like 1

  9. 4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:


    SM had two conversations with the family. First meeting appeared to have ended with an understanding. But minutes after getting home, SM gets a message Mom wants another meeting on the matter. Long story short, they will be looking at other units. I do not think any other units in the district will allow Scout to camp with mom and dad instead of his patrol. 


    Sometimes folks need to go their own way on a different path.

  10. 8 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

    In the opening ceremony at NOAC  today, all four principles wore black robes.    No native american regalia at all.

    A nod to our beginnings on Treasure Island, or a harbinger of things to come?

    The whole black robe thing will be a hard story to sell.  Many will think it's some sort of nod to Star Wars

    Image result for star wars black robes

  11. 11 minutes ago, robhixkg said:

    Good afternoon all,

    I am processing our troop summer camp advancements and I have some questions.

    First let me state, I am aware the guide to advancement state that once a requirement is signed off we cannot take it back.  I am guessing this goes for merit badges as well as rank requirements.  

    Second, let me say I absolutely loathe the fact that BSA speaks out of both sides of their mouth on some things.  They state that the requirements must be done as written then do not require the camps to abide by this requirement.  I know some things cannot be done at camp.  That should be documented in the camp materials, the merit badge completed as a partial and then move on.  The scout should have to finish that up away from camp.

    This leave me wondering what to do in situations where I know a requirement could not have been completed at camp. 

    First case, the camping merit badge, requirement 4b states:

    I cannot see this being done at camp, yet I have a camp saying that scouts have completed it. What can I do in situations like this?

    Second question, the scouts in our troop that were doing the camping merit badge had to have the Scoutmaster verify their camping nights for requirement 9a.  Since our Scoutmaster did not have access to their camping records, he would not sign this, promising to follow-up after getting back from camp.  Yay scoutmaster and camp on this one.  One of our scouts, not getting a scoutmaster signature for completion, went to his dad and got him to sign for the requirement.  Dad was at summer camp.  Dad is not a registered merit badge counselor for anything!  However, the scouts records come back from camp showing that he completed the camping merit badge.  On this one, I think I can deny it simply on the fact that the camping night verification did not have a valid signature on it.  Can I deny him completion on this?  If not, what are my options, if any?

    Thanks for any help you can give.

    The camping records couple of points - 

    The "leader" is not the MB counselor but nor is he signing off on the requirements, he is merely stating that 20 nights were fulfilled.  Whether or not he should have done that is anther questions

    On the camping records, odd the SM has to "access" the camping records.  He has the Scout in front of him and hopefully the SM can remember what outings the troop attends.  Hopefully the Scout can recall which of these he attened. 

    We get this each year at camp.  Typically we have the conversation with the Scout.  You went to summer camp two years ago, 6 nights.  Tell me some campouts, then they tally them up.  Takes about 5 minutes, send them on their way.  Some (but not many) may actually have used the log in their handbooks (I know...shocked face)

  12. On 10/18/2013 at 10:06 PM, berliner said:

    There is no such thing as "overtrained".

    Oh if only that were true.  Though I have not seen many, and I have been at this rodeo for a while, I have run across a few leaders that felt if a little training was good, then more was better.  They spend more time in training, attending training, running training, finding courses, etc etc than actually you know, being out and about with a unit, in the woods, in the mud, maybe huddled under a tarp in a downpour chatting with young scout on his first outing and not happy about all the rain.

    That's where Scouting happens, out with Scouts having fun on adventures.  Yes the training is good and WB can be OK, but never ever forget the why, as an adult, you are involved in the program.  Lose that focus and you are just an older person in a khaki uniform.

    • Upvote 4

  13. Well another BSA tradition is tossed onto the altar of political correctness.  This directed and influenced by people not involved in the program nor interested in the why.  Also those supposedly offended by the usage who are in many cases supportive of the usage and tradition were not consulted.

    Is Akela still mentioned in Cubs or is that verboten now?

    • Upvote 3

  14. Let him choose his path.  We have some that are very fired up about advancement.  We have some that enjoy the adventure and challenge of the outings.  Sometimes as leaders we ask those that have not advanced a rack in a while if they have any questions, but that's about it.

    Don't worry, unless he is 17 and 7 months, wants to attain Eagle and still has some required MB to earn.  (and a project)  He may be a might stressed then

  15. 20 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    After 90 days, there needs to be a petition to national explaining why the BOR could not have been held prior to the 90 days. If that post 90 day paperwork was not completed and approved by national prior to the EBOR, IT IS NOT A VALID EBOR! That may be the issue. Someone screwed up, did the EBOR after the 90n day deadline and did not have approval.


    Had that happen to one of my Eagles. If the OP is lurking, please PM. I have some experience in this type of matter.

    Yep - We had one with the same situation.  Completed Eagle paperwork and application just after HS graduation.  They were gone for the summer (working out of state) then college orientation and college (yep out of state), so we coordinated the district BOR for their Fall Break on a Tuesday night.  There was a petition / form / document that we worked through.  As it was past 3 months but less than 6 months was not a huge issue, but we did have to make sure the i's were crossed and the t's were dotted.

  16. There is more going on here that we may know

    These are some of key notes from the poster:

    • It had been 9 months since becoming eagle.  When he didn’t know what was going on he contacted his SM and when he did his SM wanted to meet with him. 
    • At that meeting he was told that he was denied a court of honor and would not give the reasons why.  
    • This may be some form of discrimination and if so there is going to be hell to pay.
    • He was just notified last night that they are denying the COH for reasons they will not say.
    • With that said, they talked at the library last night.  Basically no reason was given for the Denial of the COH. The SM said he did pull for him as well as a top official. He gave him his medal and pins and certificate (in a plastic bag) and that was it.

    As has been advised, the COH for Eagle is typically the family.  Not required, though there should be one if the Scout is desires the ceremony.  In our unit we offer advice, have a box of decorations that can be used, etc. and support as needed.  Favorite was one at the Scout's house, then we all watched college football after the ceremony.

    Interesting that the poster went quickly to discrimination, mentioned this multiple times, but offered no firm details (even vague ones).  Not sure why one would jump to that conclusion so quickly.  Must be some back story here not being disclosed.  Also the implied issue with some member on the committee/troop on the timeline.  Maybe some history there also.

    Sound like the Scout is an Eagle. (That can be confirmed with local council / NESA if it has been 9 months)  Possibly move forward with that accomplishment in his life and put the COH issue astern.


    • Upvote 2

  17. 54 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    It reminds me of BLAZIN' SADDLES. It was a movie to fight racism and racial stereotypes. Today it is viewed as racist.

    When my son was in HS he and some friends were watching Blazing Saddles one night, we had a long discussion on timeframe it was made, (1974) and what is was actually trying to convey.  To your point is what highlighting the absurdity of many racial stereotypes and at it's core it is a satire.  Also pokes a great deal of fun at Hollywood.

    Great movie.

  18. 22 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

    So now I hear rumblings that each lodge will need to get approval from their local tribe ( or descendants thereof )  in order to wear any regalia in public ceremonies.

    This will be somewhat problematic for us since  as far as I have been able to discover the last historical mention of our local group was  circa 1760.

    Living on the east coast does have its drawbacks

    That will be entertaining...trying to find the tribal descendants.  That is assuming a lodge is in fact using regalia and symbolism from the local tribe from the area your lodge may be in.  For example if one is in Western NC and the lodge is using Cheyenne type regalia but that area was originally Cherokee, who (whom??) from which NA group would be able to approve usage.  Is there a form, would it be an e-mail, do you go to their local gatherings?

    Also what era as the regalia changed over the years as the NA groups came in contact with Europeans.


    Image result for native american tribes territory map

    • Upvote 1

  19. On 7/14/2018 at 9:55 PM, Keithami said:

    I took my son to camp Norse July 2nd of this year, I signed him up for the week.  I informed the camp counselor that I am the custodial parent of my son and that his mother may show up and want to hang around, I informed the camp counselor that I do not want her at the camp. I was assured by the camp counselor that she would inform all the other counselors of my request and that my sons mother would not be aloud to stay while my son was at camp.  I arrived Friday July 6th to find my sons mother watching a movie with all the counselors, when I spoke to the counselor in charge she stated she was not aware of my sons mother being there, she assured me that would never happen again.  I brought my son to camp Norse on the following Monday, I gave a copy of the court order that stated my sons mother visitation was not to start until 6PM  on Friday, again I was assured that my sons mother would not be allowed to be at camp.  I showed up Friday July  13th to pick up my son, I was early so they had to have someone escort my son from the pool area, when they arrived my sons mother was with him and had been there all day.  The counselor did not apologize, nor did she ask what she was doing there.  So again camp Norse and all the counselor went against my requests. Where is the honor in this?  

    As one who has worked camps and currently working with a large troop, your expectations to involve the staff in the visitation issues may be a challenge.  If there is a court ordered restraining order, then entirely different set of circumstances.  I have had families with those, it was not pretty.

    In the first week you advised you did not want the mother at camp.  No mention of court orders, visitation documents, or custody paperwork being presented to the camp.  Just that you did not want her at camp.  On the second week, you did present some documentation, but expecting all of the camp staff to be fully aware of this may be an over reach.  Your issue is with your son's mother.  If she is in violation of custody agreements and court orders, then refer that through the legal system.

    Not excusing the staff and likely they could have done more.  At the end of the day the issue is with the mom, not the camp.  Hold her responsible for her actions.

    • Upvote 1

  20. 3 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

    I was unfamiliar with Gaga Ball - it looks like a safer version of dodgeball to me - foam balls, no throwing, target is below the knees.  What I'm reading is that the Scouts playing Gaga Ball are having a lot of fun with it (even if it is a safer version of Dodgeball).  I'm surprised no one has complained that the BSA is taking all the fun out of dodgeball by doing Gaga Ball instead.

    Way more than you may want to know



  21. 1 hour ago, perdidochas said:

    Well, I'm glad one of our former ASM's wasn't there. He would have wanted direct two deep leadership at the gaga pit/basketball court.  The Scouts would play field games for about 45 minutes each meeting, and mostly the adults worked with older Scouts who were working on merit badges. We  trusted the Scouts to run their field games and to do the right thing in an accident. They did for the few knee scrapes, etc. that happened.  This ASM thought we should have two adults watching the Scouts every minute.

    The gaga ball pit (sort of like Thunderdome...many enter but only one is left) is a great time.   Lot's of need for scouts to work things out.   One of the camps we attend asks that a leader be nearby and is responsible to check the ball in/out.  Also haul away the injured.  I was sitting there at a table maybe 50 ft away enjoying the afternoon and a tasty treat and was asked to mediate some point of the game, my response was "work it out".  The group asked a couple of times, I responded the same each time the same and they stopped asking and (shocked face) they worked it out

    I did dutifully turn the ball in and luckily mended no scouts.  The afternoon progressed nicely