Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Jameson76

  1. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    While it may be great it is also required for any outings, and for good reasons. Note that Cubs and Scouts are two separate programs. What is great for Cubs and 6 - 10 years olds does not translate to working with 11 - 17 years olds
  2. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    To be clear, as of 2/13/2018 and at 10:04 EST, as we may understand the basic intent of the decision to allow Girls into the Cubs and Scouts; Cub units do have the option to remain single gender. Also as faintly outlined there will be Girl Troops, so current Male only Boy Scout Troops will remain as such, so not really an option for Girls to join a current troop. That is of course subject to change based on a potential future survey given to people not involved in scouting at this time at the whim of BSA National (results will not actually be presented to the general public only the feedback that everybody will join if there are fully coed units)
  3. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    All very accurate The final point (6) is the one that BSA National has not done really any work on. They are facing declining membership. Rather than fully understand why some units are successful and grow or at the very least stay healthy, and others decline, we get this broad brush solution of "the family" and we are not meeting the needs of "the family" That is at best a straw man that anyone with any real world experience in Scouting knows is BS. The comments by our CSE that this will help by being a "one stop" program ring hollow. If BSA holds to single gender dens, then even twins could end up with den meetings on separate days. With different age kids in different dens, again, multiple days. In most packs there may be 2/3 family camping events per year, 9/10 pack meetings, but maybe 25 or so den meetings. Vast majority of the time is den meetings, and those should be separate. Though some packs may have all their den meetings at one place at one time, but that can vary The separate but equal plan gets even more complicated as kids get older. If you have a 13 YO Boy / 11 YO Girl /9 YO Boy / 7 YO Girl Scouting in a Single gender Den and SBE Scout function will be a many events. 13 YO Boy will be in the Boy Boy Scout Troop, 11 YO Girl will be in Girl Boy Scout Troop, 9 YO Boy will be in their Den, and 7 YO Girl will be in their Den. In theory the troops could meet on different nights, go on different outings, etc etc. Same for Cubs Then along will come the real long term plan, fully coed at all units, the reason...we have listened to "the families" and this will meet their needs. Funny thing is, The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Nothing about families here.
  4. Adult Adventure Weekend at the Summit

    So if they can profit say 30% per leader ($89) they only need like 2.4 million leaders to attend to handle the balloon payment due in a few years
  5. Dynamic patrols and the patrol method

    We have 6 patrols and once you are assigned to a patrol, that is your patrol for your tenure. Note we have about 90 scouts, so roughly 15 assigned per patrol. That being said, there are they older scouts who may be not as active, and we split up the new scouts each year based on actual activity to keep a good core group. For most outings we have 6 patrols that function. Typically about 40 attend each outing. Our lake outing had 70 with about 20 leaders in and out, so 90+ in camp for the period. Some of the outings two patrols may combine so we have 6 -8 scouts working together. In that case the two patrols determine which PL will be in charge for that outing in a combined patrol. We let the Greenbar determine which patrols combine
  6. Has your troop ever gone to Disney World?

    I would have to agree. There are many many activities that troops can do, not saying WDW is a bad one, but it would be pricey. We try to keep our outdoor trips and campouts to those things a Scout's family can do, but may not want to do as a family. Backpacking, kayaking on a river, canoeing in the swamp, biking on a rails to trails, primitive camping at a State Park, etc. Each year we do a trip that is longer, but still has some outdoors or adventure elements. Staying overnight on a museum ship, touring some of the military museums, ziplining. Also we work very hard to keep the cost elements reasonable.
  7. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Interesting to put in something about the Scout law. IMHO while in theory correct, the challenge is that this is not what many of the Boys and Leaders signed up for. BSA National has substantially changed the rules of the game. To put out that if one does not support this one is not upholding the Scout Oath and Law is not really accurate If you agree to be involved in something (job / purchase / volunteer), are committed and then someone from outside what you are doing says you have to do that plus all this other stuff, that changes what you agreed to get involved with and by that same token, your interest. If you agree to buy a house, then as you go to purchase you learn that the current owner is going to continue to store stuff in the back yard and access that for his business, you may walk away as that may not be what you signed up for.
  8. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Yes they in fact do have some facilities. However in a camp of say 500 (youth, staff, and leaders) maybe 5% were female and all were adults or staff who typically utilize leader/adult facilities. Same with female leaders in camping sites, again a smaller number and all adults. Now you will have youth. Most BSA type shower houses have a group area, restrooms and showers for the youth. Yes there are stalls for showers and toilets, but still a "group" shower house. Some camps for the shower house only have adult and youth sides. The female bathhouse may be in another area. In campsites many camps have troops share a site to better use facilities and balance space. Now you will have Girl Troops and Boy troops, that is likely manageable from an admin. Challenge may be Coed / Boy / Girl, could be an interesting game of campsite puzzle filling
  9. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    We have had some accelerated rank movements recently also. We did have a question come up (Greenbar or troop meeting, cannot 100% recall) that was basically will we have to have girls in the troop? Our response to the scouts was that Scout troops would not be coed, that there would be Female troops and Male troops, that based on information we had, girls could not in fact join our troop. There was a follow-up question as to whether the CO was going to start a girls troop. Our feedback on that was we did not know. Our plan was to continue program as we had for the last 30+ years. If a BSA4G started it would be like the Girl Scout troop at the church, they would do their thing and we would do ours. Luckily no one asked about the two summer camps we go to each summer and what would be the impact there in 2019. Guess that planing horizon is too far out. I have talked with folks from both camps (not the SE or pros but volunteers and summer staff that do the actual work) and literally there are zero plans in place on what to do; waterfront changing rooms, shower houses, campsite assignments, troops sharing sites etc etc etc. Just from an infrastructure point not sure how some councils will pull it off
  10. Good Lord, that would be the BEST if BSA did something like this. Get all adult members in BSA to vote on the board and major decisions? Hilarity and chaos would ensue. This could be a huge TV event and multi- episode reality show. Mark Burnett could produce it and with the revenue BSA could erase some of the Summit debt.
  11. Scouting is doomed

    1) People taking Scouting too seriously. It's supposed to be fun, the boys (well until recently only boys) are supposed to enjoy coming to meeting and outings. If it's school in the woods, probably will not be much fun. If you spend 20 minutes going over rules and regulations before heading into a basic situation, probably will not be much fun. Stop quoting chapter and verse of this or that requirement, regulation, or guideline. As leaders you HAVE to be enjoying the game of scouting. That will pervade the unit. Not that one cannot be serious when needed, be urgent when called for, or step in if warranted. But if leaders do not seriously enjoy having conversations with the scouts, enjoy watching them move through the ranks and mature, and never take yourself or the "calling" of being a leader too seriously...then maybe you as a leader need to examine why you are involved. These are 11 - 17 years olds, in their mind South Park has been wronged for never winning an Oscar. Scouts have a choice, more choices than ever. They know, as we did as youth, whether the leaders are there because the want to be or do they feel some vague obligation. If your unit is not growing or at least holding steady with membership and participation, look to the core group of leaders. Do you have fun when passing along information about outings and events, do you have fun interacting with the scouts, do you answer their goofy questions with goofy questions of your own. If you do not see humor in pretty much every meeting, outing, and event, look inside yourself. Go have fun, get a reputation for having an enjoyable and fun program. Then see where that takes you
  12. And Summit has been so wildly successful...let's just emulate that
  13. Sunday Morning segment on the BSA

    Lot of opinions on this. IMHO it is a lack of focus on core programs and building on what BSA does well. A successful Scouting program is not a "season" or a "class" that is audited. Hopefully scouts do not merely attend they get involved. Most of the paid scouters are not judged on program or activity by the units, it's all numbers and dollars There is a disconnect between the local successful units and what BSA Council and National perceives as what needs to be done. Too much adjusting of requirements, adding things, deleting things. It's all about the programs. A youth (gotta be inclusive) did not join the scouts to go to a city council meeting, record his situps, or chart his budget for 12 weeks. They joined to go have FUN and do things. BSA needs to stress this - Outdoor Programs. Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. In the outdoors the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for the beauty of the world around us. The outdoors is the laboratory in which Boy Scouts learn ecology and practice conservation of nature's resources. This is what sets BSA apart from being just another after school thing. Embrace and build on this, it's what we are (or were)
  14. So, how will your Pack handle recruiting girls?

    Don't try to understand 'emJust rope, throw an' brand 'emSoon we'll be livin' high an' wide
  15. Can Scouts use campers?

    Well...unless the scouts fell trees and build the cabin, that would count I would assume???
  16. Pack Trailer

    Should be under the CO. If it is in fact registered in her name, then she is on the hook for any damage or liability that arise out of it's use. Presume she is paying the registration each year and (depending on the state) any ad valorem tax, and maintaining insurance on the trailer. For our unit the trailer is registered and tagged by the church. Typically we forget to look at the tag and have in fact been stopped on the way to an outings due to expired tags. Most officers send us on our way (met a really nice Eagle Scout who was with the State Patrol one time) and we get the sticker from the church. Also we got a ticket in the HOV lane one time that came to the church. Good times, we paid the $25
  17. Can Scouts use campers?

    Nothing fictitious about the EM-50. Keep one in the garage, lousy on city mileage though. Picked it up in a surplus deal during one of the drawdowns. Hard part is mixing my own fuel for the flamethrower. Neighbor kids love it, keep getting letters from the HOA however
  18. Am I the only one?

    Yep. All council is not bad, but really different objectives. The challenge is we (volunteers and leaders) are focused on one element (they are called scouts and fun) and the "Council" is focused on other elements (called money and numbers) You hit the nail on the head in that many of use will continue to focus only on our units. As one who is a former professional (lasted a couple of years, way too much Sustaining Membership and numbers while not near enough program), former district volunteer, etc etc now focus is my unit. Sadly I am torn. I know the value that scouting brings, I can see challenges within the district, but do I want to put up with the hassle and group think to try and change it? We have two district scout events, attendance is OK, but they really need to be revamped and brought up to date, be more engaging. We are the largest troop in the district and the Greenbar came to us during planning and asked do we have to go to the winter one? We had stopped attending the Spring camporees a few years ago. Our input was, that is your decision, if you want to do something else, that's fine. This year we are going backpacking and while a couple of weeks out still, we have more Scouts signed up for that than went to the winter event in any of the last 5 years. We are in the southern US so winter event just means it may be below 40 for part of the day. The council runs a great summer camp and we enjoy that. We use the council properties (and adjacent council's) each year. They can bring value and can serve a purpose. Yet when I look at the council staff and see SE, and Asst SE, marketing staff, development staff, safety staff, mystery staff, multiple FD's, etc etc I seriously wonder what these folks do all day. Honestly I see our DE once per year at our troop FOS event. Never seen them or their FD while we were at camp, at any of our meetings or events. True we run a good program, but you would think if numbers are the end all be all, maybe go out and actually see what makes a good unit. If you need me I'll be backpacking with the scouts.
  19. Can Scouts use campers?

    Is it a cool Urban Assault Vehicle ?? That would be really cool
  20. Scouting is doomed

  21. There was a Playboy patrol From articles in May of 1974 ATLANTA (UPI) - The Rabbit Patrol or the Bunny Patrol might have been acceptable. But the Atlanta Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America decided yesterday that a Playboy Patrol was going a little too far. A group of boys in Troop 61 of suburban Smyrna named themselves the Playboy Patrol last week, rejecting traditional patrol names like the Owl Patrol or the Mole Patrol as boring. A presentation of bunny patches and flags was to have been made to the troop tomor­row from a personal emissary from Playboy head Hugh Hefner and four shapely bunnies from the local Playboy Club. But the Atlanta Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America called a halt to the planned activities yesterday, saying the presentation, or any further activities involving the Playboy organization, would not be permitted
  22. Assuming all G2SS guidelines were followed, and not really up to speed on Cub camping, it has been a while. I was under the impression (thought??) that Cub camping and overnighters were all family camping. Should he have been there without parents? Can they have another leader / parent be responsible? Just curious on how that should work.