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Everything posted by Jameson76

  1. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    To be clear, at this point, Girls cannot join your troop nor in the immediate future would they. Yes that will no doubt be subject to change, but wanted to level set (and I know you were being dramatic) Agree 100%. I am amazed that the National BSA office and board made this momentous decision, and literally had no real workable implementation plan. Anyone who has spent any actual time at the unit level can come up with multiple scenarios that need to be resolved. Admittedly they may not have the answers yet, but the shallowness and lack of even acknowledging there may be questions is stunning. What she is saying is a challenge and concern. That being said there are in any endeavor minimum requirements. As long as the Scout meets the minimum, they have in fact met the requirements. I have conversations with Scouts and parents and try try try to remind some of them that Scouting is a journey and not so much a destination. Scouts need to enjoy the trip. Every outing is not about advancement. Sometimes we go to the lake to get towed behind boats and canoe around because it's fun, sometimes we hike in the rain because it is a personal challenge, sometimes we climb that mountain because (wait for it) it is there. (and we can spit off the ledge)
  2. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    You gotta look those folks in the face and clearly state
  3. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    It it is really large print and denotes Family Scouting If BSA National had only meant CUBS,then logically it would have said that. That which is not specifically excluded is assumed to be included
  4. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Spot on. Main message after the announcement from BSA National, Council pros, etc has been if you do not support the change, then maybe you were a "conditional" scout. So yes, that is the subtext of the message included within the change. We are doing this with you or without you
  5. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Yeah...that big giant FAMILY is not really clear what it applies to. We can infer and assume all we want but (as has been well noted) the message is a bit muddled. The decision was made to admit girls to the program, rather than sell that, let's sell families, everybody loves that!!
  6. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Been going downhill since they discontinued Blacksmithing, Stalking, and Taxidermy merit badges. Those were the ones that toughened them up.
  7. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    I would slightly differ in that view. BSA National and pretty much every interview CSE has had emphasized and at times over emphasized family. He talks about families doing things together, that families want programs they can do together, and that scouting can be the program they can do together. The surveys tell them family is key and they want to do things. As a family. One can infer that if the new families that come into Cubs with the family transition to Scouts, the expectation is the family will come along. Those of us that are dinosaur troops, all male leaders on outings, using patrol methods, scouts off by themselves, referring scouts to their SPL for questions, will be (I assume) be expected to welcome the families. Even if we are all male and the Scouts potentially crossing over are male, this family focus will be a challenge.
  8. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    While it may be great it is also required for any outings, and for good reasons. Note that Cubs and Scouts are two separate programs. What is great for Cubs and 6 - 10 years olds does not translate to working with 11 - 17 years olds
  9. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    To be clear, as of 2/13/2018 and at 10:04 EST, as we may understand the basic intent of the decision to allow Girls into the Cubs and Scouts; Cub units do have the option to remain single gender. Also as faintly outlined there will be Girl Troops, so current Male only Boy Scout Troops will remain as such, so not really an option for Girls to join a current troop. That is of course subject to change based on a potential future survey given to people not involved in scouting at this time at the whim of BSA National (results will not actually be presented to the general public only the feedback that everybody will join if there are fully coed units)
  10. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    All very accurate The final point (6) is the one that BSA National has not done really any work on. They are facing declining membership. Rather than fully understand why some units are successful and grow or at the very least stay healthy, and others decline, we get this broad brush solution of "the family" and we are not meeting the needs of "the family" That is at best a straw man that anyone with any real world experience in Scouting knows is BS. The comments by our CSE that this will help by being a "one stop" program ring hollow. If BSA holds to single gender dens, then even twins could end up with den meetings on separate days. With different age kids in different dens, again, multiple days. In most packs there may be 2/3 family camping events per year, 9/10 pack meetings, but maybe 25 or so den meetings. Vast majority of the time is den meetings, and those should be separate. Though some packs may have all their den meetings at one place at one time, but that can vary The separate but equal plan gets even more complicated as kids get older. If you have a 13 YO Boy / 11 YO Girl /9 YO Boy / 7 YO Girl Scouting in a Single gender Den and SBE Scout function will be a many events. 13 YO Boy will be in the Boy Boy Scout Troop, 11 YO Girl will be in Girl Boy Scout Troop, 9 YO Boy will be in their Den, and 7 YO Girl will be in their Den. In theory the troops could meet on different nights, go on different outings, etc etc. Same for Cubs Then along will come the real long term plan, fully coed at all units, the reason...we have listened to "the families" and this will meet their needs. Funny thing is, The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Nothing about families here.
  11. Adult Adventure Weekend at the Summit

    So if they can profit say 30% per leader ($89) they only need like 2.4 million leaders to attend to handle the balloon payment due in a few years
  12. Dynamic patrols and the patrol method

    We have 6 patrols and once you are assigned to a patrol, that is your patrol for your tenure. Note we have about 90 scouts, so roughly 15 assigned per patrol. That being said, there are they older scouts who may be not as active, and we split up the new scouts each year based on actual activity to keep a good core group. For most outings we have 6 patrols that function. Typically about 40 attend each outing. Our lake outing had 70 with about 20 leaders in and out, so 90+ in camp for the period. Some of the outings two patrols may combine so we have 6 -8 scouts working together. In that case the two patrols determine which PL will be in charge for that outing in a combined patrol. We let the Greenbar determine which patrols combine
  13. Has your troop ever gone to Disney World?

    I would have to agree. There are many many activities that troops can do, not saying WDW is a bad one, but it would be pricey. We try to keep our outdoor trips and campouts to those things a Scout's family can do, but may not want to do as a family. Backpacking, kayaking on a river, canoeing in the swamp, biking on a rails to trails, primitive camping at a State Park, etc. Each year we do a trip that is longer, but still has some outdoors or adventure elements. Staying overnight on a museum ship, touring some of the military museums, ziplining. Also we work very hard to keep the cost elements reasonable.
  14. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Interesting to put in something about the Scout law. IMHO while in theory correct, the challenge is that this is not what many of the Boys and Leaders signed up for. BSA National has substantially changed the rules of the game. To put out that if one does not support this one is not upholding the Scout Oath and Law is not really accurate If you agree to be involved in something (job / purchase / volunteer), are committed and then someone from outside what you are doing says you have to do that plus all this other stuff, that changes what you agreed to get involved with and by that same token, your interest. If you agree to buy a house, then as you go to purchase you learn that the current owner is going to continue to store stuff in the back yard and access that for his business, you may walk away as that may not be what you signed up for.
  15. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Yes they in fact do have some facilities. However in a camp of say 500 (youth, staff, and leaders) maybe 5% were female and all were adults or staff who typically utilize leader/adult facilities. Same with female leaders in camping sites, again a smaller number and all adults. Now you will have youth. Most BSA type shower houses have a group area, restrooms and showers for the youth. Yes there are stalls for showers and toilets, but still a "group" shower house. Some camps for the shower house only have adult and youth sides. The female bathhouse may be in another area. In campsites many camps have troops share a site to better use facilities and balance space. Now you will have Girl Troops and Boy troops, that is likely manageable from an admin. Challenge may be Coed / Boy / Girl, could be an interesting game of campsite puzzle filling
  16. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    We have had some accelerated rank movements recently also. We did have a question come up (Greenbar or troop meeting, cannot 100% recall) that was basically will we have to have girls in the troop? Our response to the scouts was that Scout troops would not be coed, that there would be Female troops and Male troops, that based on information we had, girls could not in fact join our troop. There was a follow-up question as to whether the CO was going to start a girls troop. Our feedback on that was we did not know. Our plan was to continue program as we had for the last 30+ years. If a BSA4G started it would be like the Girl Scout troop at the church, they would do their thing and we would do ours. Luckily no one asked about the two summer camps we go to each summer and what would be the impact there in 2019. Guess that planing horizon is too far out. I have talked with folks from both camps (not the SE or pros but volunteers and summer staff that do the actual work) and literally there are zero plans in place on what to do; waterfront changing rooms, shower houses, campsite assignments, troops sharing sites etc etc etc. Just from an infrastructure point not sure how some councils will pull it off
  17. Good Lord, that would be the BEST if BSA did something like this. Get all adult members in BSA to vote on the board and major decisions? Hilarity and chaos would ensue. This could be a huge TV event and multi- episode reality show. Mark Burnett could produce it and with the revenue BSA could erase some of the Summit debt.
  18. Scouting is doomed

    1) People taking Scouting too seriously. It's supposed to be fun, the boys (well until recently only boys) are supposed to enjoy coming to meeting and outings. If it's school in the woods, probably will not be much fun. If you spend 20 minutes going over rules and regulations before heading into a basic situation, probably will not be much fun. Stop quoting chapter and verse of this or that requirement, regulation, or guideline. As leaders you HAVE to be enjoying the game of scouting. That will pervade the unit. Not that one cannot be serious when needed, be urgent when called for, or step in if warranted. But if leaders do not seriously enjoy having conversations with the scouts, enjoy watching them move through the ranks and mature, and never take yourself or the "calling" of being a leader too seriously...then maybe you as a leader need to examine why you are involved. These are 11 - 17 years olds, in their mind South Park has been wronged for never winning an Oscar. Scouts have a choice, more choices than ever. They know, as we did as youth, whether the leaders are there because the want to be or do they feel some vague obligation. If your unit is not growing or at least holding steady with membership and participation, look to the core group of leaders. Do you have fun when passing along information about outings and events, do you have fun interacting with the scouts, do you answer their goofy questions with goofy questions of your own. If you do not see humor in pretty much every meeting, outing, and event, look inside yourself. Go have fun, get a reputation for having an enjoyable and fun program. Then see where that takes you
  19. And Summit has been so wildly successful...let's just emulate that
  20. Sunday Morning segment on the BSA

    Lot of opinions on this. IMHO it is a lack of focus on core programs and building on what BSA does well. A successful Scouting program is not a "season" or a "class" that is audited. Hopefully scouts do not merely attend they get involved. Most of the paid scouters are not judged on program or activity by the units, it's all numbers and dollars There is a disconnect between the local successful units and what BSA Council and National perceives as what needs to be done. Too much adjusting of requirements, adding things, deleting things. It's all about the programs. A youth (gotta be inclusive) did not join the scouts to go to a city council meeting, record his situps, or chart his budget for 12 weeks. They joined to go have FUN and do things. BSA needs to stress this - Outdoor Programs. Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. In the outdoors the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for the beauty of the world around us. The outdoors is the laboratory in which Boy Scouts learn ecology and practice conservation of nature's resources. This is what sets BSA apart from being just another after school thing. Embrace and build on this, it's what we are (or were)
  21. So, how will your Pack handle recruiting girls?

    Don't try to understand 'emJust rope, throw an' brand 'emSoon we'll be livin' high an' wide