gblotter

3 hours ago, mashmaster said:

Frankly, I see nothing wrong with boys joining and following the girl scout program.

But do you use labels like “discriminatory” and “exclusionary” and “on the wrong side of history” to describe organizations that focus on the needs of girls? Or is that name calling reserved only for those serving boys?

3 hours ago, mashmaster said:

You are attempting to pin me to a liberal when you know absolutely nothing about me.  

You are correct that this issue crosses liberals and conservatives.

4 hours ago, thrifty said:

I may be taking this out of context but I felt the need to reply.  There are many "liberals" that are not happy with the new direction of BSA including myself.  There are also "conservatives" that I know that are thrilled that their daughters will be joining BSA. 

You are correct that this issue crosses liberals and conservatives.

My main point should have been emphasized that the door swings only one way (against boys). This comes at a time when boys are clearly the group failing in our society and nobody cares. Nobody. Silence. Crickets. Any expression of support for boys and their unique needs is tagged with labels of sexism, chauvinism, and patriarchy. The fact that BSA is now abandoning its mission for boys under the banner of inclusion saddens me beyond belief.

18 hours ago, mashmaster said:

I seem to remember a time when there were others we felt shouldn't be in the program or worse.  Discrimination throughout history has always been proven wrong by the test of time. 

Expressions like yours only reaffirm that those of us who disagree with the co-ed Scouting decision longer have a home in BSA.

By your statement, I guess you believe that GSUSA (who excludes boys) is an organization composed of sexists and bigots who are on the wrong side of history too, right? Oh yeah - I forgot that your liberal door only swings one way (against boys).

On 6/18/2018 at 10:06 AM, shortridge said:

I really can’t wait until 2024 when the members of this forum look back and say ...

Speaking only for this forum member, I will be long gone by 2024. Many will be exiting Scouting over these issues.

The ones who choose to remain in Scouting are by definition the same ones who agree (or perhaps disagree less) with these decisions.

Stuff in our storage closet that gets used a lot: Flags, merit badge books, first aid equipment, ropes/poles for lashings.

Stuff in our storage closet that never gets used: Mishmash of camping equipment that was mostly discarded from Scouting families who didn't want/need the stuff.

 For our troop campouts, everyone brings their own tents, stoves, etc from home. I like that solution because the Scouts are then motivated to take care of it. Troop camping equipment generally gets thrashed.

47 minutes ago, Hedgehog said:

Trust me, 11 to 14 year old girls don’t want to be around 11 to 14 year old boys.

I'm curious to know how your 11-14 year old girls will feel about attending a co-ed summer camp with boy troops (because co-ed BSA summer camps will be the reality). Speaking only for our 11-14 year old boys, the idea of co-ed summer camp is anathema to them. They would rather skip summer camp altogether and do our own wilderness camp instead.

17 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

It is those family members who passed while I was Scouting whom I wish I spent more time.

I get it.

I know other dedicated Scouters who willingly sacrifice unbelievable hours for the good of Scouting (i.e. they lead training weekends, they staff Camporee events, they mentor OA Lodges, they renovate dilapidated camp properties). I confess that my Scoutmaster motivations are more selfish (I want to facilitate a great Scouting experience for my son). When my son was unable to attend our troop campout last weekend, I wanted to transfer my duties to other adults/dads (but I ended up going anyway). I guess that makes me a "conditional Scouter" of a different variety.

52 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

I wonder if scouting is like work, in the end one wishes more time was spent with family?

If you are asking yourself the question, you probably already know the answer.

5 minutes ago, MattR said:

That's what boys want. It's not the boys that push for eagle, it's the parents, the scouters, the council and the BSA. People are worried that the addition of girls is going to wreck scouting for boys but the emphasis on schoolwork and advancement is what's doing it. Eagle has become the koolaid.

I will not dispute your experience, but that has not been the experience for my son. My son definitely drank the Eagle KoolAid, and he will be the first to tell you that achieving the rank of Eagle Scout has been the highlight of his life so far. But in no way has advancement wrecked his Scouting experience. Yes - he has earned 57 merit badges, but he also has 50+ nights of camping and 150+ miles of hiking beneath his feet. Who says Eagle and adventure need to be mutually exclusive?

4 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

This thought has been on my mind lately.  I wonder if scouting is like work, in the end one wishes more time was spent with family?

I am the Scoutmaster of my son's troop, so Scouting time has been mostly family time.

Many of us understand how consuming Scouting can become. I completely detached from my Scoutmaster persona during a recent two-week family vacation. It gave me a pleasant vision into what my life will be like after the LDS exit on 12/31/19. There is indeed life after Scouting.

5 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I can be more effective, do more good, and not deal with all the crap by working with my sons and their friends.

Because of recent BSA decisions and because of the recent LDS exit announcement, I feel I can be more effective and do more good working with the youth program of my church (and, yes - sidestep the crap).

No. Scouting has walked away from me, and I'm not chasing it down. I'm ready to be done after the LDS exit on 12/31/19.

The only way I would say yes is if my daughter was doing the asking.

18 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

I'm saying focus on your neighborhood, on your community.

Or church.

5 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

So quit.  throw in the towel.  the fight is lost. 

The fight is over with BSA, but it is not lost. My efforts will continue full force with our church youth program that is well-equipped in the realm of developing boys into responsible men, capable providers, strong fathers, and loyal husbands. In that environment, one may still assert that men and women are actually different, with each filling essential and complementary roles in life (how outrageous is that?).

11 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

Sorry, but we men need to stand up

Let me know how that goes for you. Consider those on this relatively tame forum who dare to decry girls entering BSA (unScoutlike is the kindest of those characterizations).

Are you ready to be assailed as sexist, chauvinistic, and patriarchal? You had better check your male privilege at the door. The only reason that article could be published at all is because the author is female.

On 6/14/2018 at 1:05 PM, Eagledad said:

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara-kay-the-male-crisis-thats-ruining-our-boys-and-no-one-cares-about

Thanks, @Eagledad. I stumbled on this article before you posted the link on this forum. I cried when reading it because truly we are losing our boys and nobody cares. Not even BSA cares anymore. My son faces this on a daily basis in a school environment dominated by female teachers and female administrators. He is graded according to female methods of learning and disciplined according to female standards of behavior. Scouting has been his refuge - a safe space for boys to just be boys. That is now sacrificed on the altar of inclusiveness.

On 6/14/2018 at 1:05 PM, Eagledad said:

I know that as much as girls needed a program like the Boy Scout program, boys need it a lot worse.

With troops of 12-13 year-old boys and 12-13 year-old girls in the same summer camp environment, tell me which will be called out for being disruptive and distracting, and which will be praised for being focused and attentive?

On 6/14/2018 at 1:05 PM, Eagledad said:

I get that the BSA has moved on and there is no going back, but just maybe a few here will be swayed to consider the needs of the boy

There is no going back. So our boys will retreat to their last remaining dominions: sports teams for those who are athletically inclined, and the dropout society of the video game culture for the rest. Sad beyond belief. This social petri dish is putrid.

All Scouting is local, and none of these decisions need change the experience for any of our Scouts ... unless they attend a summer camp, or a merit badge university, or a Camporee, or a Cub Scout Day Camp, or an OA Induction, or NYLT, or any other event sponsored at the District, Council, or National level. So the proposed solution is to draw inward, focus on the troop (la la la la la - I can't hear you Surbaugh), and insulate ourselves with as little involvement as possible with the larger Scouting world around us. What a sad commentary on the organization formerly known as the Boy Scouts.

Scouting is not co-ed. (1)

(1) Unless you attend a summer camp, or a merit badge university, or a Camporee, or a Cub Scout Day Camp, or an OA Induction, or NYLT, or any other event sponsored at the District, Council, or  National level.

20 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

The one above is nice too, but are they technically acceptable since they aren't standard issue?

Probably not technically correct per regulations, but who cares?

Simplest answer is usually the correct one: If BSA gave a different name to the girl program, that would be creating an avoidable hurdle to going full co-ed in the not-distant future.

We created a custom troop number patch that was distributed to all boys and adults at a court of honor.

It is a nice patch, but only about half the boys wear them on their uniforms. I suspect many were lost.

These custom troop numbers are available for order at patchtown.com

Any youth program (Scouting or otherwise) will reflect the dedication of the leaders who act as "fishers of men". You'll always find some who are extremely committed, and you'll always find others who just "wing it".

I know of some stellar LDS troops, and I'm sure there will be wards who implement the new youth program in stellar fashion.

I also know of some pathetic LDS troops, and I'm sure there will be wards who implement the new youth program in pathetic fashion.

But overall, I am hopeful that the new youth program will meet the needs and fill the voids where Scouting came up short. Even in wards with great Scouting programs, there were inevitably some who did not get caught in the net.

6 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

LDS decision is the LDS decision.  Possibly some LDS scouts will continue in non-LDS units but I am not versed in LDS family culture

For our LDS troop of 30 Scouts, I know of only two boys who are considering joining a non-LDS unit in 2020. Less than 10 percent - I think you will see that as a common statistic.

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Does the SM follow the same policy?

Barry

Yes. I am the Scoutmaster.