gblotter

*Rant On* BSA National made it abundantly clear that they do not respect the opinions of people like me when they rammed through these changes under the pretext of manipulated data and disingenuous surveys using oddly-worded questions that forced agreement with their predetermined outcome. It is incredibly insulting (and enraging) to hear Mike Surbaugh brag about the sham process they concocted and how this was all in response to popular demand. Within our troop organization, I don't know a single Scouter (male or female) who is in favor. This decision smacks of desperation as BSA struggl

Yes - all Scouting is local. And nobody is forcing you to accept any of these changes from BSA National. You can continue on just as before. Unless you participate in a merit badge midway, or a camporee, or a JLTC, or an OA induction, or a summer camp, or a Jamboree, or a high adventure base, or a ...

@Hawkwin You have been very patient in making your arguments. Your kindness shows through. However, this invigorating back-and-forth has only highlighted with greater clarity how much BSA has changed in a very short time. I go back to my original triggering statement: "I did not walk away from Scouting - I have stayed the same. Rather, Scouting walked away from me." Scouting used to be my parenting partner because it shared my values and reinforced what my children learn at home and at church. Now it is an organization with different values that merely tolerates what my children lea

I agree that anxiety is unwarranted with an EBOR - it is not an inquisition. I view a mock-EBOR as simply an opportunity to be prepared for an important event. Advance preparation shows that you take it seriously and want to represent yourself well. I have no problem with that at all. Not really protecting my ego with these mock-EBORs, but I do confess that I want our candidates to set a good example of what a quality Eagle Scout should be (i.e. prepared). Once again, I see no problem with that at all. From your tone, I get the impression that you feel a mock-EBOR

Agreed. In our Troop, I use the SMC as an opportunity to conduct a mock-EBOR. That kind of preparation yields great results because it removes the anxiety of uncertainty. After the mock-EBOR, the candidate pretty much knows the kind of questions that will be asked of him (like taking a sample test in preparation for a final exam).

Yes - that is certainly what liberals would like us all to think, i.e. that their values are now America's values and anyone who thinks differently is an outlier. I assure you that large swaths of this country do not subscribe to that line of thought. We have had a number of family discussions to help our children understand that governmental laws do not define the morals of our family. Most recently this lesson was repeated when talking about legalized marijuana. One of the things that makes us special and different is that our values hold steady in the face of crumbling societ

I am new to Scouter.com, but I'm sure that EBORs must be a well-worn topic here. Time to move along.

That is what an Eagle Scout Court of Honor is for - to recognize and celebrate the accomplishment. Gatekeeepers are encountered in many aspects of life. Isn't a merit badge counselor also a gatekeeper to ensure all requirements are met? Or something as common as the DMV road test. How about a master's thesis examination committee or a doctoral dissertation jury. There are many more examples. Important benefits result from passing gatekeeper reviews. Rather than grouse about imagined abuse by zealots, why not embrace the Eagle Scout BOR as an opportunity to develop a valuable lif

I am a traditionalist with conservative values. Lately, Scouting has been all about breaking with tradition and embracing liberal norms on sexuality and gender. The fact that BSA permits me to retain my own personal values does not change the fact that Scouting has changed in fundamental ways and is no longer the great fit it once was. That is how Scouting walked away from me.

Actually the Eagle Scout BOR is a final test, a judgement, and an evaluation of a Scout's career. It is exactly that. The Eagle Scout rank has not been earned until all requirements are satisfied. The final requirement (requirement 7) states that the candidate must successfully complete an Eagle Scout board of review. @Stosh I get where you are coming from. I have a libertarian spirit and don't like submitting to authority either. The attitude brought to an Eagle Scout BOR is really the most important factor that will influence the experience. Just being pleasant

@Stosh I'm sorry if your past experience has given you reason to be resentful of the Eagle Scout BOR process or to feel like boys are being bullied or jerked around at will. Speaking only for myself, we try to make the BOR a positive experience as the pinnacle of the boy's Scouting advancement. We want him to feel elated, not deflated. In rare circumstances, an Eagle Scout candidate may show at the BOR poorly-prepared to represent himself well. In those situations, the questioning can get difficult. This is not because we are asking tougher questions, but rather because the Scout is

@ItsBrian In our council, the fact checking of the Eagle Scout Application happens before the actual BOR. The dates listed for each merit badge will be compared against the council records. If there is a discrepancy, the Eagle Scout candidate may be asked to produce a blue card as verification. But all of those details will be resolved before the BOR takes place. Normally, we would have no reason to focus on such things in our questioning.

One of the hats I wear in Scouting is to chair Eagle Scout BORs. It is interesting for me to learn about the various ways that different councils conduct these. In our council, Eagle Scout BORs are held once a month for all candidates in the district. Each BOR typically last one hour. We will run multiple boards at the same time, so it sometimes requires as many as 21 Scouters to sit on the boards. It is a big affair, and the Scouts know it. We don't want to be intimidating, but we do want Eagle Scout candidates to know that this is Scouting's highest honor and we take it seriously.

The LDS church is looking at a new youth program to be deployed worldwide. This message has been plainly communicated previously and was publicly reaffirmed as recently as October 11, 2017 in response to BSA's decision to admit girls. To say the church has no such plans is simply wrong. July 2015: "With equal concern for the substantial number of youth who live outside the United States and Canada, the church will continue to evaluate and refine program options that better meet its global needs.” January 2017: "In recent years the Church has made several changes to its programs for y

Pardon my boldness, but ... if you think gender is unrelated and irrelevant, there is a lot you don't understand about the development of boys.

I suspect their silence is motivated by the FOS campaign currently underway. The local councils don't want to raise the visibility of an unpopular decision while at the same time asking for donations.

Not interested in attending those camps after 2018 as the new camping experience will be co-ed. So I really don't care what budget cuts they make. And from Surbaugh's comments, it seems the available dollars will be going to restroom improvements to welcome all the new girls. Why should I feel motivated to donate to that?

I listened to it. Co-ed summer camps are on the way (and we should be happy for the new bathrooms). New uniforms are on the way (and apparently the old ones sucked anyway). All of this is happening because we asked for it (although I don’t know anyone who did). I have seething disdain for this guy. It turns my stomach to hear him twist the truth and manipulate facts. BSA is tone-deaf. I ripped up and threw away three Friends of Scouting solicitations this week. Maybe they will hear that message.

This is a 40 minute video covering the gender integration decision. It is worth your watch. My contempt for Michael Sarbaugh has increased 10x by watching this video. He portrays the local council meetings and surveys as being neutral on the girl topic - they were just collecting opinions. That is 100% BS. Anyone who attended the meetings and completed the surveys knows for a fact that the discussions and questions were unbelievably biased to result in a preordained response (i.e. to accept girls). Michael insists the survey responses indicated 80-90 percent support for girls in Scout

Please refer to me a post where anyone said they were prepared to turn in their Eagle. Or are you just making an irrational comment?

What you will see is a different sort of race ... the rush among boys to get their Eagle finished before all the changes are implemented to accommodate girls in the program. This same thing happened back in the early 1970s when misguided BSA leadership decided to reprogram Scouting to appeal to urban families. Scouting had become too old-fashioned and needed modernization to match societal trends (sound familiar?). It infamously became known as 'taking the outing out of Scouting'. The Camping merit badge was actually eliminated as an Eagle requirement and replaced with bookish merit badges

Perhaps disenchanted is a better adjective. Concepts like "Trustworthy", perhaps? Can anyone claim that national BSA leadership has been trustworthy during this entire process? No - they have been deliberately deceitful as many examples show. Or maybe "Loyal". Were national BSA leaders at all concerned with seeking the opinions and guidance of its most loyal long-term Scouters? No - they actively sought to sidestep those experienced individuals in favor of surveying "non-Scouting families" to provide a pretext of validation for their actions. But let's forget about all the

The story was the same in our council. I have to believe our local council execs were lied to as well. They would not knowingly deceive us in this way. I have some connections in the upper realms of BSA, and am going to ask for an explanation of the lies we were told. I am confident this deception was orchestrated by national BSA leaders. Heads should roll over this and jobs should be lost. This kind of dishonesty is unbecoming of any organization, but especially the Boy Scouts of America.

You have summarized the situation perfectly in our council as well. My wife attended our council meeting (I could not attend because I was involved in a different Scouting meeting at the same day/time). She reported that discussion was centered on leading statements to force agreement with their desired result. A survey followed with oddly-worded questions that also forced agreement with their preset agenda. Curious note: If you didn't attend the council meeting, you didn't get the survey either. Most long-time Scouters were completely bypassed for any feedback. It was clear they were only

I can't say I was surprised by this announcement. BSA's intentions were clearly telegraphed in advance. From the wording of their "surveys" and their messaging to families, it was obvious this outcome was preordained. In the face of staunch opposition, BSA leadership now insults us by claiming they are only responding to popular demand. Hardly trustworthy. As BSA dilutes their programs to make them gender-neutral, they will attract few girls but lose many boys. I was a Boy Scout during the 1970s when BSA last attempted a disastrous reprogramming and lost millions of registrants in the process.