scotteg83

On 7/22/2020 at 12:36 PM, PACAN said:

Their web site shows they have 4 camps in the council.  Don't know anything about any of them but the 35% reduction in youth takes the total youth to right at 2000.   Hard to see how they can maintain that many properties. 

And there is the big factor.  Most councils are luckily to keep up with 1 camp, let alone 4. 

On 7/22/2020 at 11:27 AM, David CO said:

Then fold.  Put the camp in a trust and fold.  The camp will be missed.  The council won't.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if the council folds, national steps in, and sells everything that's left to square up any debt.

On 7/20/2020 at 9:51 PM, SSScout said:

 God ain't making any more land. When a camp is sold, it is sold and lost to Scouts. And to the future. The lack of forward looking management is always a shame. Such properties can be utilized and pay their own way if imaginative people work at it. Nature, ecological education programs. Public and private school programs. Agricultural education (organic? ) Demonstration gardens. Church , weddings, office "retreats", Isaac Walton utilization, Audubon Societies, even selective harvesting of timber. Publicity , even among Scout groups (limit to BOY Scouts? Why not offer to GIRL ScoutsUSA even?) , LDS has their own program now, can they use a few extra camp grounds ? The State might PAY for the opportunity to plant new trees (experimental American Chestnut?) . The NEED for our ("our") professional Scouters to be so often parochial ("it's got to be SCOUT stuff") is very sad. Want to know WHY Chicago Council wanted to sell all four of their camps? "Follow the money...."

While I agree with you 100%, this case is a little different.

This council (my council), due to previous unchecked SE and board, caused us to go almost 2 million in debt.  This year was supposed to be the year to lower that debt.  Obviously with everything cancelled, we haven't even scratched the surface.  The Council has done everything possible to lower expenses, and went from projected going belly up mid year, to end of August, and now looks like they can push it till November.   Once November hits, without incoming money, they will not longer be able to pay bills, salaries (limited staffing) and expenses, and will fold.

The camp they are looking to sell would give them more then enough to get the loans back in-line, and help rebuild the program council wide.  The Council board has been infused with newer members and the SE is new this year, so there is better hope not to repeat this all over again.  The current working plans is to sell to a group that will allow Scouting to happen at the camp, as most councils do nowadays anyway,  They just have to find the right group and work out the right deal.  There was a vote a year ago to do the same thing, but they didn't pass it, hoping to have a better year to make things happened, and it didn't, so its already too late now.

dug deep to reply to a 7 year old post

21 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

@Sentinel947 said it best. There is no way to replace it.

Yeah, I know there’s no true replacement. 
 

just was hoping there’s something between Itls and NYLT to jump start their learning

Our local council only runs one NLYT a year, and canceled this year to COVID-19 concerns. We send out SPL and ASPL every year (assuming they haven't already gone).  This year our newly elected SPL and appointed ASPL will not have that option.  I am really holding out that our Council can pull a late fall or early winter one, but I doubt it will happen.  If our local councils offer one in a nearby state, I might be able to send them.

But until that is figured out, is there any online training videos, or virtual meetings that might help them to perform better?  I have personally witness the growth and leadership our scouts have earned coming out of NYLT.  I know they only get out what they put in, and they were good scouts to begin with, but it truly stepped up their game.

thanks for any help or thoughts

Don't know anything more than the article says, but I do know Frank Maguire, he's one of our oldest still active Scouters in my council.  

7 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

Katahdin Area Council (Maine) jsut announced cancellation of the summer camp season at Camp Roosevelt.

yup, thats where my troop was planning to attend

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well I got s copy of the Scouting U email to various training chairs which stated:

· We have been asked specifically about Wood Badge, NYLT, IOLS and BALOO. As stated above these courses should not be revised by a local council to be run in an online environment. Each of these have experiential learning in the outdoors that cannot be duplicated online.

In my email, it was highlighted in yellow.

I got the same one forwarded to me.

Honestly, I wish you well, but in today's world, I doubt you will make any headway with this.

You would have better luck joining/supporting an already existing Boy's only group, then to "invent" your own. Maybe you can get them to re-brand to include Boy in the name (but nothing "Boy Scout", cause that would be taken to court).

Starting a ground up program would require 1 to start, and then enough attention to grow

our local council furloughed two out of three District executives, actually terminated by eliminating the position of program director, and may furlough the remaining DE if things stay too long.  We are on the verge of canceling summer camp, which is the only real income, and the council is already 1 million in debt to the bank.  This will be a hard bounce back for us.  We were only 15% through our FOS campaign, and now went to an individual mailed flyer, but no one in their right mind is going to spend "extra" money right now.

Our Governor did a stay at home order starting at midnight, which means the registrar will be home without charter inputting access.  The Scout Executive is new as of this year, and luckily was temporary living at the training center across the street from the council offices, so I guy he will be a one man show.

I would dare to say the Scout also failed themselves. 

I know most will only do what they have for options, but you mean to tell me a scout never wants for more and finds like minded people?

So you're shocked about the 6 years no summer camp, did you ask the scout if he even wanted to go?  Is the scout 18?  I would have pushed him to go back to his troop and push the other scouts that its not too late to demand a better program.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/03/18/good-turns-during-the-coronavirus-acts-of-scouting-service-you-can-do-from-home/

I would call local old folks homes and ask if there's anything your scout can do to help.  Make videos or cards to send.  Maybe they have a special need that you can gather at home and mail in. 

You can also reach out to animal shelters and see what their need is.  You could run a food donation drive with drop off service, so no one has to get out of their car.

Social distancing doesn't mean the world stops.

With the current unknown, it was suggest by my committee that we have a backup plan if COVID-19 closes summer camp this summer.  We have access to a water front camp for the week.  It has its Pro/Cons, but I was wonder what some of you have done in the past to host your own week of camp.  The camp will have a cabin with bunks for the adults, and room for the scouts to have tents.  Canoes are provided as well.

Thanks for any input.  Currently we have 14 scouts and 5 leaders planning to go to camp.  I am also an ASM for a girls troop, and will offer a similar backup plan for them (just on a different week)

Scott

So a big question was brought up with my committee today.  Summer camp requires a new med form that is dated no older then 13 months from summer camp's date.  Most doctors in our area are cancelling all non-emergency appointments with no reschedule date.  Assuming a doctors office wont fill out your part C without a recent enough physical, how are we supposed to get proper med forms in time for summer camp?

As SM, I don't send out anything like that.  I think sending an email like that might actually encourage MORE parents to attend.

The only part on email for summer camp, is a plug that any adult leader that would like to attend must speak up before a certain time.  And a push that they have to be registered and YPT.

On 3/10/2020 at 9:28 PM, fred8033 said:

Don't mix YPT with the boy troop / girl troop debate.  It's just not there.  Scout camps have always had mixed gender under-18 staff without violating YPT.  Activities, camporees and district events can have both genders.  BSA G2SS never even infers single gender units is a YPT issue.  

If there is an issue, it's with ignoring the "INTENTION" that the troops should be separate.  We as leaders should follow BSA's intentions less we are accused of going rogue.  But even then, there is little to say two units can't meet in the same place at the same time and have similar calendars.  

IMHO, if the scouts are safe, growing, learning and having adventures, then don't question success.  

Our local camps require all staff to register as a venture unit, which is co-ed, and then covered by proper YPT requirements.  This is also a dual registration with no cost for the youth.

18 hours ago, BAJ said:

Since I expect to get this question from Scouts after an OA election tomorrow, does anyone know whether there is any precedent for change in the ‘OA election is good for one year’ if the Ordeal gets cancelled because of communicable disease concerns?

Our OA has 3 ordeals a year, plenty of chances to get it done in a year

As fun as a canoe trip is, you are taking away the experience and advancement opportunities that a summer camp offers.

Not knowing where you are located, but did you price out and check other summer camps?  In Maine, we have 2 in council, and 4-5 out of council in a reasonable 2-3 hour drive.  We do have 1 camp that does the "quest" style, and that's why we stay away from that one.  Scouts can go provisional with the troop, but the entire troop will never plan to go there.

When I was a youth, we went on a weekend canoeing trip, but our leader covered both that and summer camp.  I have lots of fond memories from it, but it was all putting skills to use, and not earning anything from it.  Maybe making sure both can happen would be best, if you can get someone to be a Canoeing, Fishing, etc Merit Badge counselor. 

On 3/9/2020 at 10:20 AM, ham_solo said:

But it does seem interesting that national seems to have made that uniform decision to set that as a new standard and not even communicated it to anyone(like usual).

 

Until I see it in a uniform guide, or pictures of it with other neckers besides Scout-me-in, I would not say its a "new standard". 

In fact, there are other pictures on facebook that show them NOT wearing those, and wearing regular neckerchiefs with slides.  So they must have swapped them out for certain photo opportunities. 

tent sites are $30 for in house, $40 for out of council covers 20 people per site

I am impressed you have 2 girl troops in one city.  Ours is the only one for 50+ miles.  We pull from 5 different towns right now.

I do compete with a boys troop in my area.  Within 10 miles, we have two towns and two troops & packs.  Every year, my troop seems to "take" a crossover from the other town's pack.  Our "feeder" pack never visits the other troop, when the other town's pack encourages it.  Might be why those crossover scouts last longer then the "feeder" ones.

19 hours ago, qwazse said:

That's not how the WOSM works ... I bet it will be concerned when sales of the world-crest drop.

Organizations who don't have a congressional charter aren't obligated to report their membership statistics publicly. They have nice web pages, but are shy on stats. They do talk the YP talk.

But, let's not be so optimistic. A sinking tide grounds all boats. The massive liners first, then the smaller ones, down to the last dingy. One claim against an independent scouting organization, just one, will make it as much a target for punitive damages ... more so because they should have "learned" from our supposedly failed practices.

Eventually, as I said earlier, it will be reasonable to sue the institution of the family as a whole for not protecting our citizens completely.

I believe the Girl Scouts of USA also had to put out a statement this week stating they are NOT part of Scouts BSA, and NOT having youth protection issues, and NOT claiming bankruptcy.   Which proves to the point, one sinking tide grounds all boats.  Every Scouting origination in the USA is effected by this.  General public cannot tell the difference between Scouting orgs, unless they have first hand experience.

On 2/20/2020 at 9:39 AM, ValleyBoy said:

If the local councils get pulled into the Chapter 11 some such as my local council might be able to survive.   The reason I say this is that my local council only owns the local council office building.  The two camp properties that the council uses are not owned by the council.  The main camp is leased from the Army Corp of Engineers and the other older camp property is in a trust that cannot be sold and would revert to the local community only if the scouts abandoned the property. 

My council has been talking about getting one of their camps sold to a land trust, which would help this issue if it happens.