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Posts posted by Eagle1993

  1. Just listened to the “pantsuit nation” podcast with Sydney Ireland as the guest.  The striking inconsistency of the argument presented that BSA must tear down this patriarchal program while maintaining Girl Scout are great for girls is blatant.  I warn you not to go searching for the podcast....

    That said, it is the reality for COs and Packs that choose to include girls.  

    After starting the process of adding girls I believe it is clear the BSA MUST release and start the pilot program of the girl Boy Scout program this summer.  The startup issues of just adding dens and girls to the Pack have been tough enough.  Adding a new girls program will be massive and they will need some groups to work out the bugs to be ready for 2019 Feb/March crossover.  Given the what is in this article I think they realize this and may be feeling the pressure of simply adding girl Patrols to Troops.  Whatever solution, they need to  have a kickoff in the spring for training and begin pilot Troops or patrols this summer/fall.  Waiting until next year will be a disaster.

    • Upvote 1

  2. 2 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

    How ironic it will be if the largest problem that packs encounter with girls joining is membership processing via National's online software.  :(

    We will see.  All of our professionals have been in meetings all week and my COR is also my DE.  He has emailed me updates at 12:30 am so I know they are busy at work.  Hopefully when they are out of their planning meeting the council will have a bit more time to figure it out.

  3. Week 2 Update

    Pinewood Derby is tomorrow so most of our focus has been on that this week.  We have 10 girls that are joining our Pack, 4 Lions, 1 Tiger and 5 Bears.  There are a few more that are considering.  We also added one boy who was an older brother of one of the girls that joined... the parents thought it would be great to have both involved.

    IT issues... we have still not been able to accept applications online which is required.  While we are officially chartered the online application only allows males to apply.   Talking with council we think it is due to a new field in the organization Manager callled Family Scouting (ours indicates we are not participating).  Council is working to see how this can be updated.

    Impact on Boys.  I think the separate dens help.. even if in 3-4 years they fade away.  At least at first In minimizes the impact on the boys.  No one has quit yet but I heard one boy indicate he didn’t want girls... his dad told him to be quiet.  My son indicated another boy said it is “Boy Scouts” and therefore only boys should join.  My son said “Actually it is Cub Scouts and so only young bears should be able to join and so we should be kicked out.”  They both laughed.  I asked my son his opinion and he was fine with the change (he said he didn’t know any who are against it).  That said he told me... dad, I don’t think we can continue with wenius jokes.  So, they may lose out on that... 

    Next up is PWD (1 girl racing).  New parent meeting next week and girls den meeting in 1.5 weeks.


    • Upvote 3

  4. Not siding with nationals on this as I’m advocating a case by case decision.  Each lodge reviewing their own with local tribes.

    That said, if the WB group painted their faces black, dressed up like an “African”, danced around, used voices and fake stories reminiscent of 1930’s Hollywood view of African tribes, I believe you might see some protests and changes from national.  

    I haven’t been through WB, but I certainly hope they don’t do the above.  

    • Upvote 1

  5. 6 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

    I personally could care a less, but I’m shocked BSA doesn’t want them only in BSA.

    I’m not sure I understand why the BSA would want this.  To me, many girls may want to do both. How does maintaining their GSUSA membership harm BSA?   The girls joining our Pack would drop GSUSA membership if they had to choose, but I would never ask that of them.  

  6. 1 hour ago, cocomax said:
    But I guess now we are expected to put them down to build up the BSA.  Sad.   
    BSA is not being very scout like.

    Hmmm.. what is your source from the BSA    that we are supposed to put them down?  I have only heard BSA talk up their program and never rip the GSUSA.  Even on the local level I have not seen any DE or council employee rip the GSUSA.  Yes, individual scouters will explain their experience but I’m wondering where this comment came from?  Was this in the same CNN interview where someone said who cares what the boys want?

    • Upvote 1

  7. 1 hour ago, The Latin Scot said:


    The fact is, the BSA is going to have a new program for girls, while Cubs and Venturing will include girls in their programs as they are. So we might as well just try to get along with the GSUSA, because for the time being no amount of whining, criticizing or arguing is going to change anything. Both organizations will benefit from working together; neither will accomplish much spending its energy tearing the other down.

    I certainly hope that occurs; however, it will probably have to happen at the local level.  The problem I see coordinating with GSUSA is their structure.  We have 1 Pack to their 6 Troops at our school.  Those Troops rarely coordinate within our school let alone them coordinating with us.  In addition, several of the troops have their own internal drama with different factions of girls wanting different things.  That said, as a committee we have discussed coordinating more and may attempt this in the future.

    I do wish the GSUSA attempted to partner with BSA instead of fighting as they have a good program and there are some great Troops and some good summer camps.  I think some of their leadership decided to fight to scare parents from considering to switch their girls away.  Your point about the articles regarding coed is spot on; however, the general public may not understand anyway and it is easier for newscasters to report coed.

    We have attempted to emphasize the GSUSA  program when talking to parents. My daughter will remain in GSUSA unless she does not enjoy it and I no longer see the value (that hasn’t happened yet).  Beyond that, it is up to the parents and girls which program(s) they want to be a part of.

  8. 10 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

    I’m shocked BSA is allowing them to have a dual membership between GSUSA and BSA


    I don’t think BSA would have any loyalty test or requirement (you can join both 4H and BSA).  For elementary school age girls, I don’t see it as an issue.  GSUSA Troops in my area typically meet right after school and our Pack and Dens meet later (so no overlap).

    I doubt many will maintain both as they go into middle school and high school (too many activities).  About half the girls that joined are members of both organizations (or will be once we figure out how to switch on our family Pack setting).

    All of this is still VERY early.  My primary point is that I wish the program and offerings mentioned in the article were more consistent and widely available, it is clear there are gaps by the girls that are joining my Pack.  

  9. My daughters Troop picked the summer camp “Diamonds and Pearls” where they get to put on a fashion show and pick out clothing for their councilor.  Troops in my area have divisions as some girls want the outdoor activities and others prefer more “traditional” girl interests... many trend to the cookies, STEAM and going to the mall as an outing.  A few do get outdoors a lot, but it really depends on the Troop leaders and what the majority of the girls want to do in the Troop. There is no camping requirement in GSUSA unlike BSA.

    In my Pack, we are up to 10 girls with almost no advertising.  We have 70+ boys. Many are coming from GSUSA (including one GSUSA Troop leader).  While several are maintaining membership in both there is definitely a persevered difference in what we offer.  

  10. 1 hour ago, Col. Flagg said:


    If we held movie and TV writers to the standard of portraying real people and events properly (and without embellishment) we'd all be watching PBS documentaries from the 1970s still.

    Are movie and TV writers trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind...

    If we want to tell madeup stories of Scouts I don’t see an issue.  If a lodge works with or gets permission from a tribe on their stories, regalia, etc.   no issues with me.  I think we run into violating  the scout law when making up stories involving another culture that then offend the individuals in that culture regardless of our intent.   There are plenty of options on how to avoid this situation.


  11. I think BSA is simply using the term Family Scouting in place of coed as they are attempting to keep some single gender aspects of the program intact. 

    For example, in my.scouting.org if you go to Organization Manager and are the CC for a Pack, you can click on setting you will see a new section called “Family Scouting”.  That appears to be able to be set to is or is not available.  I believe they use this term instead of coed.  Again, as they want to say the family (both boy and girls) are invited to join.  I don’t see this as a strategic change to also include mom and dad earning ranks or going on all activities.

    • Thanks 1

  12. You guys are thinking about this all wrong.   Finally, a council has found the solution to all of their financial woes.  However, they haven’t gone far enough.  Each year they should auction off 15 Eagle Scout rank advancements to the highest bidder.  I bet some desperate parents would fork over $1k each. Could you imagine what the first female Eagle Scout would go for if Nationals took this idea?  I’m thinking six figures.   You could sell lower ranks and other advancements as well, MBs, Eagle Projects, etc.  $120 for Eagle is a bargain... 

    But seriously... I have a real problem with this.  These scouts have put in the work and I’m sure have spent countless time and money on various activities to get that point.  The council should find another way to pay for this...

    • Upvote 1

  13. 3 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:


    We tend to hear a great deal about those that are offended by the OA, but those Native Americans that routinely come out and support, teach and work with the OA are seldom given the same voice.

    Have you reached out to your local tribe(s) to invite NAs to work with the OA?  From what I can see, the Seminoles did work with the local OA chapter.... but which others?   I wonder how widespread the support is from various tribes and if they truly see this as honoring them.

    If the support isn’t widespread from NA tribes I wonder if it is worth the effort to fix that or to simply create new traditions as some have suggested.  If it is widespread then perhaps it is simply correcting the areas that are not working with NAs.

  14. I went over and read a lot of forums on powwows.com.  There are several threads about OA and Boy Scouts imitation of Indian culture.  There are mixed opinions depending on poster.  Some are against any non NA group depicting NA culture.  Others defend OA and Boy Scouts who show honest interest in learning about Indian culture and working on accurately working on dance and regalia.

    One hot button issue appears to be ... pan Indian presentations.  There is no single Indian culture... there are tribes.  So, if you want to do this correctly you should wear the regalia of the tribe accurately and the dance only those tribe dances.  Wearing, drumming and dancing generic Indian representations is akin to painting  on blackface and putting on a Minstrel show.

    Definitely a mix of opinion, but that appears to be a red line.


  15. 9 minutes ago, packsaddle said:

    That prediction was held by a very small minority of scientists who were basically attempting to play the 'devils advocate'. They were obviously wrong.

    Actually there is something called global dimming.  It is the impact of aerosols in the air reflecting our the sun’s energy back into space.  It actually can help offset global warming impacts but the trend is reversing as countries get more strict about particulate pollution.  There is is even some belief that contrails actually help lower earth temp.  Some limited studies of this occurred during the days post 911 when commercial aircraft were grounded.  

    I’m not sure if that is what the 70’s scientists were talking about.


  16. Correct. German and Irish decendants are part of those parades and support them.  I’m of Irish decent and my wife is primarily German.  If NAs are part of the ceremony or if the OA works with them on a ceremony then no issue.  The issue is when a population that was nearly killed off by another race has their customs taken and performed without their permission and against their will.  

    Just think if Germany scouts danced around dressed like Hasidic Jews.  Sure, it has been generations since that genocide and the German scouts could be doing that in honor, but if the Hasidic Jews stated it was disrespectful then there should be no argument.  I would also argue that I would never tell the Hasidic Jews that their offense is simply “their choice”.  

    Given that we (non NAs) have taken nearly everything from NAs I do feel they get to own their cultural representations.  

    I’m not sure it would qualify or even be achievable, but I think it could be an awesome Eagle Scout project for a local OA member to work with a local tribe to develop a ceremony accurate to local NA culture that could be passed down for generations.  



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