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Posts posted by Eagle1993

  1. So it appears that January 30 this year a researcher hired by the BSA to go through their files indicated some of her findings in an unrelated trial.  The trial was against a children’s theater in Minnesota.  The expert indicated that the BSA required no one on one contact since 1987... whereas the theater only started this in 2017.

    In any case, the researcher stated some of the BSA prior processes and numbers that are coming out from her research.  This is what the law firm is jumping at. 

    In addition the law firm has released a report on their website of NY and NJ accused and asking for the abused to come forward.  

    So I agree, appears to be a fishing expedition.

  2. Just watched.  This is in prep for the August 15 date where the statue of limitations is dropped in New York for child abuse.  They indicate there are over 12,000 victims and 7,800 abusers...based on detailed analysis of the files... 

  3. 34 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

    Wouldn't know that based on the way those articles are written. 

    I’m not sure if we have seen 100+ names released publicly before.  This law firm is also going after the Catholic Church for similar issues... naming large numbers of the accused. 

    Edit... actually looks like previous reports dating back to 2010 indicated 1,200 volunteers are listed.  This law firm is indicating 7,000...

  4. Our council numbers were steadily declining over last 7 years (~2% per year), but nothing like this.   I was told there are a large number of units barely getting by and many are folding.   Nearly 80% of our DEs have < 1 year in the job.  Several were fired or resigned last year.  My district was the only one that grew from 2017.

    Our council supports adding girls, but wasn’t aggressively helping.  We only have a few Troops formed.

    I’ve talked to a few Troop SMs who are saying they are having trouble finding ASMs that want to take over.  

    All of this is concerning...

  5. 6 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

    Unless things have changed since last year, you can't use electronic enrollment for crossing over Webelos to Scouts, which for our troop is the bulk of our new members.  How are you not using paper applications.

    Forgot about that one... yep, that would be a nice add as well!

  6. On 4/13/2019 at 6:07 PM, RichardB said:

    @Eagle1993 appreciate your concerns.  Scope wise, might consider that your example is estimated at .0000005% of users of an AHMR and may not work for the rest of the population.  But, as you stated in an earlier post about going to "camp",  the "camp" provides the electronic input.   Many of those camps (especially those that that bring the same kids back for multiple years) have gone to one of a couple electronic providers.   Cost $5 or so per camper per year per property (camp).  $750 for your 150 kids or $57 and change per hour for 13 hours of volunteer time if I did the math right.  Would you be willing to absorb that cost or would your unit?   The input so far would indicate this to be a significant cost.    What do you think?  

    Also, in your examples what do these camps do for participants in the program the remaining 51 weeks per year (Pack Overnighters, Camporee's, Jamboree's, etc.)?  Who manages that electronic system in your examples of how others do it better.   If you have a specific solution, more than willing to consider it.   Post or PM me the product.     


    To be clear, I agree this is not a major issue.  However, IT infrastructure is the 21st century storefront of many businesses and organizations.   I would expect the BSA to create the IT software for councils and units to run efficiently.  If the fee is $5, it must be covered by $25 annual fee we pay GSUSA or the camp charge (which is competitive with BSA).  That said, I understand financial priorities have to me made and agree health forms are not the top priority.

    BSA has made some good progress on their IT investments over the last few years.  I never deal with paper youth applications anymore and the process has been great over the last 12 months.  We’ve been using Scoutbook, and while it can improve, the advancement sync is working flawlessly (I was pleasantly surprised the sync with ScoutNet seemed to be almost immediate  and it saved extra paperwork and a drive to the scout center).

    I would love to see future improvements in charter renewals, health forms and adult applications.  They should continue to see why Troops or Packs are using other IT packages than Scoutbook and help address the perceived gaps.  All are possible (and again, the BSA is making progress) and it would help improve the storefront while maximizing volunteer hours on activities instead of paper.  

  7. “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future”

    That said.... 

    I predict a bankruptcy filing in 2020 to help spread the blame a bit to the loss of LDS scouts instead of primarily due to loss of total members and sex abuse court cases. 

    I don’t know if larger membership numbers should be the ultimate goal, sustainable and stable numbers should be.   I see paths to massive increases in total membership but some could sacrifice the program.

    Outside of a massive shift to a family recreation/day care program (we shouldn’t do this) or figuring out how to grow in urban/immigrant areas (we should do this) I see our numbers continuing to decline.  Parents seem to have less time to volunteer, kids have more and more activities and entertainment options, and both see scouting as solving 20th century problems.  Dean Kamen maybe the 21st century Baden-Powell.

    I do see BSA as a fun and important program for our youth... but I don’t see the majority of our society aligned with that mindset.

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  8. Do kids today even know JC Penny is/was a dept store?  They may need to change to A.M. Zon.... with the lead kid in the skit correcting them with oh, “Amazon”.   Finally the last kid runs out and is asked... who are you,  and he replies I Am Zon!   I don’t know... JC Penny worked better but may be bankrupt by summer. 😥

     Boys are in Speedo’s at swim meets which is appropriate for that event (but covers very little)..  The clothing they wear is appropriate for the skit and they aren’t naked... let the kids have some fun.

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  9. I was reading through our annual report and found some interesting numbers...

    Cub Scout Membership dropped 25% (18% drop in number of packs)

    Boy Scout Membership dropped 12% (11% drop in number of Troops)

    Venturing Membership dropped 21% (26% loss of crews)

    Exploring and LFL also dropped over 30% each

    But on the advancement side...

    Cub Scout advancement went up 10% 

    Boy Scout advancement was up 55%

    Merit Badges earned went up 14%


    So... is this a clear indication of clearing out ghost members?  At first glance the numbers are concerning showing a large drop in members.  But the raw numbers in advancement show increases... which doesn’t make sense unless the members dropped were not real members.

    The financials didn’t look great as well... showing falling numbers everywhere except Management & General.

  10. 2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

    Simple? No, but I agree with your second sentence. 

    Summer camp deposits are coming in and the annual  health form, etc. paper chase will begin in a couple days, after April 15 Tax Day. 

    I only have x hours of volunteer’s time. Right now, too much of that is chasing paper between health forms, recharter paperwork, BSA annual dues.  We have 150 kids between the pack and troop, at 5 mins a form to review for errors, call for updates, etc. that is 13 hours of volunteer time I could have spent on something more useful.  Other organizations have figured out how to do this more efficiently.



    1 hour ago, RichardB said:

    Wait, a simple solution for 3-4 MM folks that works for unit, district, council and national events?   Not sure what those folks at National were thinking.   


    I wouldn’t consider it easy given the fact that both my Pack and Troop have to have an adult leader dedicated to chasing down these forms.  This could be a lot easier and GSUSA found a better way (at least in my area).  Parents who have kids in both organizations can quickly see one is superior in terms of renewing membership and collection of health forms. 

    I know it’s minor in the grand scheme of things, but would be nice to have our adult leader focused on scheduling another outdoor outing instead of running around collecting paper.  

    Again, the big benefit is that once you fill out the GSUSA online tool... you only need to make changes in future years... you don’t need to refill out the entire form.  Easy on the parents and leaders.


  12. 51 minutes ago, willray said:

    You might want to look at the frequency of reported data breaches for the electronic systems before you trust them too much.  And that's just the reported ones.  Living on the side of the fence that has access to those databases, and can watch who else has access and what they're doing, I can assure you that there are an order of magnitude more unreported breaches than reported ones.  

    I work in medical devices, been part of threat models, responded to ICS-CERT advisory’s, worked with white hat hackers and other aspects of cyber security.  I’m not an expert but know enough.  

    Most of not all of the info being collected is already in BSA or healthcare providers databases.  BSA already stores much info, including DOB and addresses electronically.  Your medical history is stored in multiple databases already.  Most people really interested in this data will be people who know you... paper will be easier for them to access than a BSA secure database.  

    As far as the comment ... GSUSA doesn’t do the same level of camping as BSA.  Ok, but these forms are required for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts who don’t do HA. Also, if you need paper, there should be an option for the leader to print out a report prior to leaving on a trip.

  13. 1 minute ago, Sentinel947 said:

    I'd rather them be on paper. Do you really trust the BSA to create a secure online portal for med info, given the state of other bsa web resources? 

    There are third party suppliers who already do this.  Vaccine records, medical history, your height and weight are already electronically stored in multiple areas... my state has an online vaccine record for all residents.  Yes, I trust it (if they use an existing supplier) and the info anyone could hack would have fall less value than 99% of my data that exists elsewhere. 

  14. Nearly every camp my son or daughter participate in have some sort of medical form.  BSA is the only one that is on paper sitting in some leader’s office.  They all have the same expectations of ensuring youth safety.  BSA is the only one who has been too cheap or incompetent to move this into the digital world and take some burden off of their unit leaders.

    The GSUSA forms are all online.  We filled them out last year, very easy and quick entry. This year we had to refresh our data and we didn’t have to start over.  The online form was available then to any camp or leader who needed our information.  

    BSA should have this info; however their collection, storage and distribution methods of the info are antiquated and result in additional burden on adult leaders.  

    For an organization that supposedly supports LNT we kill a lot of trees.

  15. The GSUSA is claiming that their brand will be negatively impacted and there will be confusion in the marketplace.  There is now a picture in an article that shows GSUSA members, in their uniform, holding Scouts BSA books.  We should be walking on egg shells around any discussion of GSUSA and be 100% clear that the programs are separate.  In addition, we should never compare the programs and simply emphasize the benefits of BSA.  The article is a mess in terms of the lawsuit.   I don’t blame the girls, the adult leaders should have been more careful.  BSA guidance has been clear and they violated multiple aspects of that document.

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  16. 7 hours ago, Treflienne said:


    has a great picture of Girl Scouts, wearing Girl Scout uniforms, holding their newly acquired Scouts BSA handbooks for girls.

    If I understand it correctly (and the article is a little confusing) a whole troop of girl scouts has joined the boy scouts.  They plan to finish up their GSUSA gold awards, and also work on Boy Scout ranks.



    Add this one to the lawsuit.  Their Scoutmaster should know better.  

  17. 5 hours ago, Terasec said:

    most public schools have similar policy, whether its promoting scouts or any other similar after school activity

    its not just your school, 

    also such policy is generally set by the district not the school,


    They allow promoting video games.   

  18. I think a lot a new cross overs are concerned about going to a week long summer camp.  My son goes to therapy for anxiety as well and will be going to summer camp.  I would first recommend talking with his counselor.  Any advice coming from us is not with the full background of knowledge of your son’s situation.  The counselor should be able to help.  

    1) My son will be going on a new scout camp out before summer camp.  Just 2 nights away then home.

    2) I’m working with my son prepping him for the swim test.  He’s close but not quite there.  If he doesn’t pass or doesn’t feel comfortable I told him sticking with beginner is fine.  

    3) I’ve let the leaders know he is anxious about the trip.  He isn’t medicated at all, but I thought they should know.

    4) I may go later in the week.  I really want him to build resilience.

    Each kid is different so it’s difficult to know what he can take.  My father was a scoutmaster for many years and he found that  most parents underestimate what their sons can handle.... but I know it’s a tough call. Again, I would highly recommend talking with his counselor to get their input.

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  19. Our district has 0 Venturing crews left.  I talked with the last leader of a crew and he said that they formed when a group of older boys and girls wanted to do more high adventure trips.   When they started to age out there was no natural progression from Troops to feed their numbers.  I brought up a discussion of ramping up a Venturing crew or two and there is some interest, but we don’t have enough volunteers for our current Troops or District already ... and that is a higher priority.

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  20. It would be great to see the regional breakdown.   Did councils who promoted girls and pushed hard on recruiting see growth or did they see backlash and net loss of members.  Did the councils who ignored girls or didn’t have a good roll out plan see limited losses?  No clue, but I know the girl numbers are not spread even across the country and council efforts varied.