Eagle1993

Coed camping already occurs with venturing and Packs.  So, we are really only talking about adding coed camping for 11, 12 and 13 yo.  In addition, coed camping exists in those ages as linked Troops share camping sites all the time, including at BSA events. 

Clarification... When I say coed, I mean boys and girls camping at same site.  Now, if you mean in the same tent, I agree that won't happen for a long time.

13 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Great!  So, it sounds like he knew his sexuality didn't matter one whit to his job performance, so he didn't flaunt it.  Kudos to him.

That is (I think) the real point the OP was making... while DEI may be getting employees from more walks of life, it is not expanding the pool of talent.  The examples he cited (and you can find multitudes more) are showing that the implementation has gone badly... to the detriment of many organizations, because talent standards are lowered, often to the point of allowing unethical behavior, and, therefore, unfortunately bolster the perpetuation of stereotypes. (which, ironically, it set out to try to help do away with...)

I agree with your underlying position that it is not a negative, if merit is the true measure.

Concur.  The double-edged sword here is that, by segregating out groups for special treatment or recognition, DEI programs do, in fact, push people out.

 

I will say for my company, DEI has gone well (overall).  There are a few times where I think it went sideways, but overall we have greater pools of talent for hiring, our profits have increased substantial over the last few years and year end bonuses are the highest they have ever been.

Personally, I have been happy with my career progression.  When I hire, I have never been pressured to hire an under or unqualified candidate. 

If someone quits because they are against diversity, inclusion or equity... So be it.  I haven't seen many people quit my company and definitely no one with talent that is not easily replaced.

Just now, InquisitiveScouter said:

And that isn't "participants"... that's a website for employees...

I know probably the best employee at our local council is gay.  He was promoted and I didn't know he was gay until after he left.  The council is worse off after he left.  If DEI helps us get employees from more walks of life and expands the pool of talent, I don't see it as a negative. 

If it is used to push out people than I have an issue with it. 

I think how an organization handles DEI is really what is important.  I'm not an employee of BSA so I'm not sure how they are using it.

Just now, InquisitiveScouter said:

LOL, no...

and btw, has it worked?

What is the hidden message?

I do think there are more girls and gay scouts than there were in the past (so in part it is working). I'm not sure about other groups.

27 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

And ask yourself, what is the hidden message?

To expand scouting beyond those who typically participated?  

My district dropped 9% from end 2022 to end 2023, we only post 2.5% end 2021 to end 2022.  

In the past 2 years we lost 16% of our Troops and more are near the end.  Packs and crews are roughly steady.

13 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

To sum up the last jamboree in a word? Sucked. I visited 3 days. I had been to 2 past jamborees, one as a youth and one as staff. My 2 daughters, niece, and BIL were with the contingent. It sucked. Many parts of the “Disneyland of Scouting” were just not operational. No arena shows. Sucked. 

The consequences of a massive shrinking BSA.  In addition, the practice of changing volunteers who staff is not a great practice. One of the ASMs in my troop had a lead role in past Jambos.  He spent over $5000 out of own pocket to volunteer (flights to Dallas, food, etc.) along with hundreds of hours just in prep.  He couldn't justify keeping up that level of commitment.  

That said, several of my Eagle scouts said Jambo (not last year's) was by far the best experience you can get in scouting.  These are youth that also went to Philmont and. BWCA.  Why?  They both explained that anyone can go on a high adventure trip, but the experience of Jambo is unique and is not duplicated.

I've never been, but based on feedback from others who attended in better years, I hope they can return it back to the event it once was.

Roger Krone is showing far more engagement in a few months than Mosby did in years.   No complaints so far!  That said, BSA is in a crisis.  Hopefully he takes aggressive action to course correct.

32 minutes ago, SNEScouter said:

SCOTUS vacated the stay.  The settlement trust can resume its work.  Here's the (very brief) language of the order:  "The application for stay presented to Justice Alito and by him referred to the Court is denied.  The order heretofore entered by Justice Alito is vacated."

Edit to include link to order:  https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/022224zr_e2pg.pdf

That really should be it in terms of appeals.  I can't imagine this bankruptcy being undone if the Supreme Court punted now.  

Hope it doesn't come to this, but you have the option to file for an extension.  No guarantees, but you may have a valid argument.

GTA-11.2.0.0-form-2021 (1).pdf

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Crazy Questions, so here it goes. if SCOTUS rules against Perdue, and hence against BSA current plan, and all councils and COs are responsible, A. does that mean those organizations that contributed to the fund get their money back and B. for those post 1976 claims, will BSA honor their obligations with COs, or will COs have to sue for BSA to honor their obligations to the COs?

If the worst case happens and the supreme Court rules non debtor/non consensual releases cannot be included in the plan AND BSA plan is not too far along, then my guess is BSA gives up including COs and Councils and could provide a much lower fund.  The insurance would be a bit of a mess, but their contribution would be much less.  If the plan continues to be rejected, you may see National liquidate.

The individual lawsuits and bankruptcy of COs and Councils would follow over the next decade.  Donors would flee as their funds could just be waiting for bankruptcy filings.  

I do expect any contributions made to the trust would be refunded and perhaps clawbacks of payments made to individuals.

In short... financial disaster for the BSA.  Some claimants may see more money but I expect the vast majority would see less and it would drag out.  Hopefully it doesn't come to this.

Seems like some bankruptcy professors and reporters were surprised.  In addition "Unlike prior such orders, Alito *didn’t* set a deadline."

1 hour ago, SNEScouter said:

This is an administrative stay issued by a single justice of the Supreme Court.  It is only guaranteed to last a week-ish - just long enough for the entire Supreme Court to consider whether to further halt proceedings.  That will be a significant ruling.  For now, I suggest not reading too much into this.

Thanks for this info.  

If they are willing to hold up a $10B bankruptcy like Purdue, why wouldn't they hold up $2.4B BSA bankruptcy based on the same arguments when only $7M was spent to date.  I hope they don't hold it up and agree that it doesn't mean they plan to overrule Purdue, I just question overuse of mootness.

In terms of the Purdue decision I hold to my initial thoughts post arguments... they find a way to uphold the plan, but it will be close and perhaps set a new bar for 3rd party releases.

Would uphold Purdue plan: Thomas, Kavanaugh

Would reject Purdue plan: Gorsuch, Barrett, Jackson

On the fence (or just tougher to read): Roberts, Alito, Sotomayor, Kagan

Usually when I don't respond timely to a scout, either a text cc to parent or a short email reminder helps.  Perhaps just ask the SM and coach if there are other methods of communication that would work.  If that doesn't work, fully agree about reaching out beyond your unit.

I just checked my email .. OA elections, summer camp planning and updates, two eagle scout projects, troop meeting prep and an eagle scout SM conference...

oh, and a job, sick pet, home repairs, wife, etc. 😀

10 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

I have not looked at the financials of the trust, lately.  Has the trust even received $1B?  I understood much of the $2.4B did not need to be paid while litigation was pending.  Wouldn't be ironic if those who filed the motion to discard the $3500 election and lost the ruling actually end up with MORE $$?  Not an impossible outcome, with the ongoing litigation AND the possibility of a huge advance of up to 1.5% or $1000.

My understanding is that all appeal litigation must end before insurance companies make their full payments.  

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

$7 million to nearly 3,000 survivors of sexual abuse."

$2,333 per survivor ....

This will be a big decision.  I'm not sure paying out 0.2% of the settlement is enough to say it is too late to pause. That said, I do agree that it is likely the best settlement for survivors and BSA. 

 It will be interesting to see how the court rules.

Here is the screenshot from National...

Nothing beyond that screenshot. I would think everything else in the process is unchanged.  I do think this could open up the option of adults having to directly use a third party for the background check.  I have to do that for other youth orgs, get the certificate and then can submit my registration.  We will see ..

1 minute ago, mrjohns2 said:

HAD. Well, Bay-Lakes has 4 council camps still, but within the area, I bet if we went back about 8 years, there would be 8+ shuttered camps. One from Bay-Lakes (Twin Lakes). Without doing research, at least 2 others have been shuttered in the area - Napawon, Shin-Go-Beek and CFL are near. 

Our Troop used to go to LeFeber which was shuttered and then CFL which was shuttered.  Bay Lakes is down to two Scouts BSA summer camps (Bear Paw and Hiawatha (which only runs 2 weeks)).  

Just received email of another delay in spending out our 2024 summer camp guide.  I noted that summer 2023 seemed lighter in attendance than prior years and I think that is causing issues with plans for 2024.  Has anyone else seen 2024 summer camp plans change from prior years?  

"With declining membership in Bay-Lakes Council, as with most councils across the country, there are serious, but not insurmountable financial repercussions. These budgetary considerations need to be dealt with wholistically to ensure the viability of the Scouting program in Northeast Wisconsin and Upper Michigan. Part of that wholistic approach must include a careful examination of how best to provide world-class programing while reducing costs and increasing revenues at our summer camps."