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HashTagScouts

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Posts posted by HashTagScouts

  1. I'd be having a conversation with the Camp Director, now. Make it clear to them- you're open to THEIR suggestions on how to share the use of the latrine, but explain in exactly the terms you outline here why only having the outside facility is not acceptable. It's a true public health issue if you and your troop cannot wash hands at times during the day. And, you're troop is paying the same as that troop, so it is not acceptable to you. If moving that troop to adjoin another site that has a female troop is a better option, then let the camp do so.

    • Upvote 3
  2. Poor forecasting is an understatement. A big problem is location. Not near a major airport, so using it for training opportunities is pretty darn tough. We've got municipal airports in the northeast that dwarf Raleigh County Memorial Airport, and you can't get flights to it without zig-zagging around the US from some destinations. I suspect that is why things like the annual meeting, OA national committee meetings, etc. are not often making the rounds to be held there. There is limited onsite hotel accommodations at the Summit, but to me, we are in a camping-oriented program, so use it for NOAC and tent like is done for Jambo. Why pay huge sums to universities for their campus? i can say the easy answer to that- for many Lodges, it's the additional activities packed on either side of 4 days at NOAC that are the "attraction" (as well as the air conditioned dorms and dining halls). BSA should also look in the mirror- when moving things out of TX, they could have put them at Summit, but they chose Philmont. Why? People actually want to go to Philmont.

    • Upvote 1
  3. If you tried to replace the collar tag with something like the "Officially licensed by boy Scouts of America", obviously crossing into a different area on trademark.

    Some Scout Associations around the globe use third party uniform items, and some use "official" items which could probably more easily be swapped out with something non-official.

    Official uniform for Scouts UK: Scouts Uniform | Scouts Section | Official Shop

    Some have official uniforms which are more activity focused, Like Scouts Australia. A number of those SAs don't wear as much bling as BSA does.

    Official uniform for Scouts Australia: Uniforms - Scout 11 to 14yrs - The Scout Shop

     

    BSA does have it's captive audience, and of course makes a good margin on items. They charge you $3.99 for an SPL position patch. Guarantee at the volume they have made, they didn't spend more than a $1.00 on it. 

  4. 21 minutes ago, Gossmaaf said:

    So this situation is now even more complex.  The Unit Commissioner, COR, and Cubmaster are all wanting to dissolve and merge into our Pack.  The smaller unit’s biggest problems are scouts barely engaged and adult leadership other than CM is nonexistent.  District went crazy on this though and being concerned about losing a unit but the Unit Comm is concerned that if a merger doesn’t happen quickly then the scouts that are left will just quit.  

    I met with my wood badge mentor who has consulted with others (and I agree) that it’s better to keep scouting for these 6-12 scouts rather than worry about a unit being saved.

    The district comm is wanting to turn some of our events into recruiting events and he wants to meet with the other packs parents at one of the events and explain if they don’t step up the unit will dissolve.  The problem is the parents are there already and don’t need to be reminded.  I’m ok with expanding our event but only if the current scouts care.  I believe my prime responsibility is to the existing scouts and the program more than recruiting, let growth happen because we are having fun not because of forced growth.

    The question is do I try and do what District Leadership is wanting or we do what the Unit Leadership wants?  There’s a conflict of choices for the same goal.

    Do what is best for the YOUTH- always. Trust your gut here.

    • Upvote 2
  5. 41 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    Yes, our Registrar confirms they are covered by our Accident and Insurance policy, per

    "Scouts and guests who are being encouraged to become registered Scouts and volunteers are automatically insured while in attendance at a scheduled activity."

    https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss10/

    Roll with it. Begs the question on that disclaimer "Youth who are not registered in the unit may not accompany parents or siblings in camping programs of Scouts BSA, Venturing, and Sea Scouting." If the intent there is to not have non-age appropriate siblings (that is to say, they can't join the unit because they are only say 8 years old), then why not say that? Otherwise, if you had a 12 year old register Scout and their 14 year old non-BSA registered brother (or sister, if they are both female and we're talking about a GT) were to attend, you'd jsut take the "encourage to become" exception to skirt it. G2SS for the win again...  

    • Like 1
  6. 9 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    OK, so what's the difference in that Scout having "joined".

    Your insurance coverage was exactly the same.

    And you haven't really done anything to prevent exactly what you have outlined from happening again, have you?

    Are you saying that, once having "joined", you still do not allow a Scout to camp, until you feel comfortable that the parent has filled out the medical form correctly and sends the Scout with his meds?  How do you know when you have reached that point?

    BTW, we require the medical form, a signed permission slip,  and have that conversation with the parents in the presence of a witness.  If the parent misrepresents and something happens, then that is on them.

    How sure do you feel about "Your insurance coverage was exactly the same"? Have you asked your Council that question?

    When a new youth comes to attend a troop meeting, we spend time talking with the youth and parent about how we operate, expectations we have, etc. Usually that gets the parent to give us feedback on what they see as areas we need to be aware of- whether it is allergies, is their child introverted, do they tend to gravitate to kids their own age, or are they more inclined to want to cling to adults, etc. Can't say it is a common thing, but we have had conversations with parents of some new crossovers about whether the parent feels that their kid is ready for being overnight without them. We've never not taken their "OK" about it. That particular youth, in retrospect, should have been a concern from the get go- first meeting, parent walked them in, introduced themselves, and then booked it, and the next week sent the kid in with the paperwork and $ for patrol food but never actually came into the meeting hall.. 
     

    4 minutes ago, DannyG said:

    First decide if the scout is camping with the troop as a Cub Scout, or as a prospective BSA scout. Apply rules from there.

    For a prospective scout to join an overnight camping trip, our unit needs a completed application and health form. The ink may not be dry and the dues check may not be cleared... I know we have taken a signed application to the council office on Friday morning so a scout can join our trip on Friday night. Since the scout in question is already a registered Cub Scout, it's just a transfer, and the membership fees have already been paid through his Cub Scout registration.

    Or else Cub Scout rules apply. Where I am unclear is can the scout be dual-registered to a Pack and a Troop at the same time? Or is a scout unable to earn Arrow of Light once he joins a Troop?

    Once they have moved up to Scouts BSA, Cub advancement ends.

    • Upvote 1
  7. 1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    Just curious...

    What do you mean by "too much liability"??  Would you specify, please?

    Not having time to gain some working knowledge about a youth can be problematic. We had a youth join several years ago, and went camping with us like their second week in the troop. Saturday afternoon the kid was off the wall (amongst other troubling things, he was making suicidal ideation comments to the other Scouts). Come to find out, med form was inaccurate, the kid is on meds, and parent did not say anything to us nor sent his meds with him. It's not a situation that we would want to take on that someone off the street comes on an overnight with us. I couldn't name one troop in our District that would be OK with it either.

  8. The issue I took on this thread was "segregated events". NOAC was not segregated. Were there optional sessions intended not as "put on a pedestal" but rather as social events? Yes. And the point of those - can't speak for the sessions, as I didn't intend them, but understood the context of the planning- were to bring together individuals attending NOAC together and to hopefully learn how the OA (and BSA in general) could better include them into the program. Female youth in particular are an issue that our Lodge, and those in our Section, have had issues to contend with to assimilate them into the Lodge while maintaining the YP policies (as this is not a pure OA forum, I'll leave some particulars out, but for the "IYKYK" crowd, think about Vigil- maintaining buddy-system in that can have challenges, now put the situation if you have only one female youth involved, etc.). Going into 2023, our Lodge had just under two dozen female youth inducted through Ordeal, but only a handful had ever attended another Lodge event after Ordeal- that lead to a potential situation for us in fall 2022 where we had 1 female youth sign-up to be a ceremonialist, and 1 female youth sign-up to complete Brotherhood. The issue we had to grapple with is how do we maintain a buddy-system for each of them? With some convincing, the BH candidate agreed to be a ceremonialist as well, so averted the main problem. Otherwise, we were faced with a situation of not being able to have either of them attend OR having to break policies OR having to break traditional structure of the induction weekend. If pulling together female OA youth together for an hour at Section/Region/National events is possible to get them to brainstorm how we can help Lodges, I'm all for it. Trying for two years to work with what at the time were all male youth Lodge officers to discuss this was not incredibly productive, and often was stuck with moving them over the hump on even understanding that co-mingling when there was less than two females was a problem.

    How to move forward is still necessary discussions- and my $.02 BSA is moving along as though there are no real day-to-day issues here that are making it complicated to actually deliver an inclusive program. Then again, BSA fails in most respects to address anything about OA in the G2SS and leaves it to us to have to read between the lines and use logic that only some of us have with Venturing/Sea Scouts on how to handle program with both male and female participants under the BSA umbrella. Can't say that is exceptional. 

    • Thanks 1
  9. 17 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    Understood. We would, and do.

    Absolutely nothing wrong with having a recruit attend an overnighter.  It is well under the umbrella of all things Scouting...  they are covered by insurance, have parental permission, and must have a medical form A&B.

    What a wonderful way for them to get to know us, see what is expected of them, and learn about the youth...

    The question was really about the Cub Scout-iness of the situation.

     

    It's in the G2SS (sort-of): Youth who are not registered in the unit may not accompany parents or siblings in camping programs of Scouts BSA, Venturing, and Sea Scouting.

    Too much liability for us.

  10. We wouldn't allow a youth not in Cubs to attend any activity other than a troop meeting (and, depending on the agenda for a troop meeting, there potentially could be things we wouldn't let them participate in- knife making night, probably not; knot skills, OK) without being actively registered through the troop. They don't really know us, don't really know our expectations (and neither does the parent), and we don't necessarily know enough about the youth.

  11. 28 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    LOL, check out the awards pinned to the pants...

    We could flex the six MBs sewed to the long sleeve shirt exception to pants I guess... 

    • Haha 1
  12. Sounds reasonable to co-operate, at least for a time, and that may allow folks to not get overly worked up about "the change"- if they understand it is potentially short-term, there could be less of a feeling of dread. I've been through a Lodge merger when councils merged, and the first year was a miserable experience of (mainly adults) negativity. I wish I had bought a few dozen copies of Who Moved My Cheese? and handed them out at the beginning.  

    You mentioned trying to make equal use of both schools. I would just do everything you can to make a calendar about what nights you are at which location for at least 3 months at a time and get each family that calendar several times over. As many parents that are scheduled to the hilt these days, even being across town on a given week it may be difficult for them to make it, but with advance notice they can at least better plan for it.  

    • Upvote 1
  13. I would recommend talking with the leadership of the new unit and solicit advice on who her contact should be going forward for the whole process as though she hadn't actually begun. Councils can have different procedures they desire be followed on the whole approval process (our Council requires the youth contact the District Eagle coordinator with a rough outline- similar to what is in the project proposal section of the workbook- after meeting with their Coach but before engaging to obtain any signatures, for example). As much of a pain as this can be right now, she will be working with a whole new group of folks through the remainder of her project, and establishing some rapport now can be beneficial later on. With that new contact, she can address next steps, what has been done so far, etc. For the sake of a clean recording, new signatures are probably going to recommended, but best to have whomever she will work with to submit and coordinate BoR later be informed now and know her transfer situation (and would agree with Jameson- less is more on details. All they need to know is she decided to make a Venturing Crew her primary unit going forward, and the Crew that was the best fit for her happens to be in a neighboring community that is within the boundary of a new Council). Best of luck to her. 

  14. 21 minutes ago, Maboot38 said:

    I guess I’m not following. In my scouting.org. The key three are all labeled as key three and when that is done, they all show up as key three delegates in scout book. I don’t believe there is any problem with the key three thing.

    I believe what @InquisitiveScouter is referring to is what is in the official roster in ScoutNet (my.scouting.org) versus what is in SB. In other words, what positions is this person actually registered as through Council? 

  15. 4 hours ago, Armymutt said:

    I'm not sure how this is a good idea, especially if that tribe engaged in actions that made another tribe go extinct.  

    No one alive today would have been involved in those actions/events. I'm sure that representatives from any tribe, or even a collective with representatives from multiple tribes, would be willing to give a proper reverence.

    • Upvote 2
  16. What our Council put out on this:

    Effective March 1, 2024, the BSA will eliminate the $25 one-time joining fee for new program participants in Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting.

    • $85/yr for Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting participants ($5 increase)
    • $65/yr for all adult volunteers ($5 increase)
    • $30/yr for Scoutreach (No change in fee)
    • $25/yr for Merit Badge Counselors (No change in fee. Only for Merit Badge Counselors not already registered as leaders)
    • $50/yr for Exploring participants Youth & Adult (No change in fee)
    • $100/yr unit renewal/affiliation fee (No change in fee)
    • $15/yr for Scout Life magazine (No change in fee)
  17. 50 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

    Our local school district has been told by the NY state board of education that we can no longer use the name 'Warrior' for our mascot. The mascot (a roman or spartan warrior) is fine, just can't use the term as ir might reflect upon native American 'warriors. I expect the Order of the Arrow will have to change along with our council's name (Longhouse). I have a long history of service with the through the Order of the Arrow including many hours of 'cheerful service' at camps, serving on ceremonial teams and as a lodge advisor. I attended the 50th anniversary NOAC as a youth and years later as lodge advisor. I gained a strong interest and respect for native nations as a result of my participation in the OA. Sadly, I think this 'woke' environment will result in the baby being tossed out with the bathwater. One more nail in the BSA coffin. 

    Good grief. The museums are closing the displays to retool. The issue originally stems from displays containing funerary items and human remains, that should be repatriated to the tribes. All else, the tribes just want input to approve what is being displayed is factual and historically accurate. Most of these items and remains were taken- would it suffice to you if someone dug up your grandparents graves and just stuck remains in a display case without asking how the family felt beforehand? 

    As for the OA, the rule put in place was to get local tribal approval on regalia. Some Lodges have, but many have just avoided the issue and kept doing what they were doing. I file that under "obedient", and if a Lodge can't be obedient, they have no business of continuing to represent the OA.  

    • Upvote 3
  18. 23 hours ago, AirForceMom said:

    What if they do they YPT training but you are saying they still cannot socialize?

     

    They MUST do YPT at age 18 one way or the other, but the challenges can be many. It was a real conflict within me on this. In the troop, I would not want an 18-20 year old to "act like a Scout", and instead be an adult to mentor. Within the OA, that would be near impossible to ask a young adult officer to not talk with a 16 year old officer, or to not be considered as equal (especially if that 16 year old was Chief). 

  19. 47 minutes ago, acco40 said:

    Another issue/question: Private online communications (texting, phone calls, chat, IM, etc.) must include another registered leader or parent.

    So when a Scoutmaster, alone at home, receives a telephone call from the SPL, with his younger PL brother, the Scoutmaster can't take the call?

    Obviously, these "rules" appear to be written by lawyers and not driven by common sense.

    Practicality of enforcement is a whole other issue. I've stepped out of the youth-facing roles as of the start of the year- that was a decision that has many parts to the sum, but these policies were a factor. I personally would always insist a parent or other adult were present for phone/Zoom/included on a text or email exchange when communicating with a youth.

  20. 5 minutes ago, acco40 said:

    Slow down everyone.  Youth protection rules, per the Guide to Safe Scouting, only apply to Scouting activities.  For example, if your 18 year old son is a phenomenal guitar play and wants to to give guitar lessons to a 15 year old - no issue.  One on one contact is allowed.  If however, your same son want to be a merit badge counselor fort he music merit badge, Guide to Safe Scouting rules apply.

    Now I'm not saying it's a good idea to ignore those rules outside of Scouting events but they don't apply outside of scouting events.

    Unless that individual is getting paid to give those lessons, then the Barriers to Abuse policy would disagree:

    Youth Protection and Barriers to Abuse FAQs | Boy Scouts of America (scouting.org)

    Q. The Barriers to Abuse states “One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting.” What does ‘inside and outside of Scouting’ mean?
    A. The BSA has adopted its youth protection policies for the safety and well-being of its members. These policies primarily protect youth members; however, they also serve to protect adult leaders. All parents and caregivers should understand that our leaders are to abide by these safeguards. Registered leaders must follow these guidelines with all Scouting youth outside of Scouting activities. There are careers that may require one-on-one contact with youth, however aside from those roles, volunteers must abide by the youth protection policies of the BSA even outside of Scouting activities.

    This policy is in place to prevent abuse in and out of Scouting.   Adults should never be alone with youth who are not their children.

    • Upvote 1
  21. 17 hours ago, skeptic said:

    It seems to me that the horse, has been beat until it is no longer even good for the glue factory.  Perhaps we can work on doing our best to stop it from happening.  There still cannot ever be absolutes, and if it does happen, the response needs to also follow the guidelines, and work to punish the actual perpetrator, and holding any who bent to pressure to overlook or something to accountability.  

    Sure. What concerns me is when there becomes an issue that is credible and in some way can be tied back to an error that someone slipped through, the PR alone is going to be the end of this organization, and the financial impacts for that are going to be just the icing on the cake.

    • Upvote 1
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