KYScouter

2 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I'm always interested in policies and procedures.  Weird, but true.  My projects often live and die with how to interpret policies and procedures. 

I've read much of the document now.  I would have guessed an OA Conclave was not subject to the document to the BSA Accreditation subjects, rather just G2SS.  Not council organized.  Each OA lodge has it's own conclave with it's own personnel.   If it does apply, it seems  you need to know the answer in advance to know how to interpret this guide.  The guide itself is not a clean statement of what's in scope.

Seriously asking:  How do I interpret the 2021 version?  OA conclaves?  OA work weekends?  Troop camp-outs?   Do we need a dietician to review the meal menus our scouts create for their patrols?  

 

I misunderstood the initial post to be about the fellowship.  I'm not that familiar with OA, but the NCAP SA-001 will guide you for the standard that apply to most event.  When I did the Short Term Camp Administrator training, there was specific mention that certain things like OA conclaves that involve more than one council will be different.  Your OA weekend -  Short Term Camp and the NCAP standards will apply.  Troop Camp  Out - not a council organized event, so refer back to the Guide to Safe Scouting.  Patrol Event - that's a unit event, GTSS applies.

The real fun comes in the adult training area.  Our BALOO and IOLS weekend is now considered a short term camp that requires a health officer, etc.  I do Cub Scout shooting sports and there are some new changes for us as well when it comes to doing events at our council's camp or off site.  It's been an interesting experience.  I took one of the earliest national level virtual trainings in December and the changes went into effect on January 1st!  Locally we are all still trying to sort this stuff out. 

This NCAP circular has a lot more info on the "why" and implementation.  Our council NCAP guru pointed it out to me when we were doing the training and it helped give more context on the "why" of some of the changes.

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NCAP-Circular-No-15.pdf

That's the 2019 standards.  Check the 2021 at the link below and FS-601 does indeed apply to short term camps.

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/2021-NCAP-Standards-430-056-Official-1.pdf

10 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

So this site has a rather convoluted explanation of the award's symbolism that I don't entirely understand, but among other things, it claims 

Not sure how accurate this is, and there is a notable lack of reference material and source information, but it's interesting nonetheless. I have never heard of dark blue council flags before. 

Thanks for the additional information.  I had not seen that particular website before, so I appreciate the additional info.

For those interested, this is what the council and district flags look like:

https://www.scoutshop.org/custom-districtcouncilcamp-fringed-flag-3x5-653799.html

I read somewhere that the square knot was first issued around 1971 and at that time, the background of the commissioner patches was blue and that's why they picked blue.  I've seen some councils that have lists of awardees prior to 1971, so the award itself may predate the issue of the knot.

Congratulations TLS on your award.  I was totally blindsided myself a couple of years ago to be given the award. 

Yes, but be aware that these are a canvas material.  Not quite as heavy as the ones described as heavy canvas, but they can still be warm in the summer.  You may want to look at the quick dry version.

https://www.scoutshop.org/shop-by-scout/boy-scouts/boy-scout-mens-polyester-microfiber-switchback-relaxed-fit-pants-612141.html

As an aside, at a recent National Camping School training for the new short term camp administrator position, one of the trainers mentioned that there should be an updated shooting sorts manual being released in Q1 of 2021.

I have this hat and I love it.  As others have said, it's a crushable felt hat.  The only knock I have on it is the placement of the hat pin.  This hat rests lower on the head than the campaign hat, so the pin needs to go up higher to avoid getting stabbed.  There is no guide or anything like the vent hole on the campaign hat, so if you're like me, you will drive yourself nuts trying to center it.  I never got it quite perfect.  I used some locking pin backs and I threw in a disposable sweat liner that I use for my caps (I can sweat through a hat like no tomorrow!) and that helps a lot.  This is my go-to hat for cooler weather.  I've had it for five years and other than brushing it occasionally, it's a low maintenance hat.

Here's a news story about the first year of Scouts BSA Girls attending our local camp.

https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Local-BSA-scout-camp-opens-doors-to-all-girl-troops-511816471.html

Well, this is just sad.  Frustrating also.  I find it interesting that this is not in the main GTSS, either shooting sports manual, and was never mentioned when our camp was inspected this summer (June) and I had scouts from tiger to WEBELOS on the range.  I suppose at this rate, I'll have to ask for proof of citizenship before I let them on the range before long.

Based on this website: http://uniform-reference.net/insignia/usarmy/usa_enlisted_1920_conv.html

I have reason to believe that this is the insignia for a quartermaster sergeant of the motor transport corps.    

14 hours ago, DaveIng said:

Here are a few more I am trying to identify maybe these will help with the others as well

The top rank insignia is a World War I era 1st sergeant, upside down.  All of the patches that you have posted seem to be roughly from the world war I era.   The second one is eluding me so far, it looks so much like a motor sergeant, but the "thing" inside the wheel spoke is not on the standard motor sergeant insignia.  There were an ungodly number of different insignia for ranks and specialties for the US Army in World War I, so much so that they created supply issues and they standardized the ranks and insignia down to seven grades and basic insignia in 1920.   I'll keep digging for the newer images you posted, these are very cool and collectible pieces of history.  My guess is that since in the olden days the Army hosted the jamborees, these are surplus insignia that they gave to the scouts. 

In your newest set, the third patch down that looks like "SOS" is for the WWI AEF Service of Supply.  They were the troops assigned to move the supplies from the French ports up to the various units of the AEF. 

Most of these appear to be period insignia of US Army formations and a couple of rank insignia.

The Lincoln appears to be from the 84th Division (Rail Splitters).  The Shield with the Cross of Lorraine from the 79th Division.  The mountains in shield the 80th division, next one may be a special unit, the Circle A is the 3rd Army, the red diamond the 5th Division, The green with the horn appears to be a special unit, a couple of sets of sergeant stripes that I can't quite ID yet (They appear to be upside down) and the last one is the 4th Diivision (Ivy Division).  I'll poke around for those special unit and rank insignia.

  https://www.loc.gov/resource/ds.09804/

Wrongfully, Welcome to the forum!

As a COR I have had this conversation with someone before.  As bearess said, I'd want to meet and discuss the situation, preferably not in a scout setting and with a bit of privacy.  I want to see how up front the person is with me about their charges, the circumstances and whether this is the only offense, or if there were others.  The things I want to consider is how old was the person when they committed the offense?  A 19 year old getting a DUI or simple possession is (in my consideration) different than a 40 year old.  I'd want to know if you have completed any kind of treatment program and whether you have completed your probation.  Basically, I am of the mind that humans can, and often do, make mistakes or do stupid things.  I want to see if the person has learned from it and how have they conducted themselves since their conviction.  That said, I am always upfront with them.  If there is any indication that they are going back to old ways or if they are violations of the law (even traffic infractions) I won't hesitate to yank my approval.  However, every COR is going to look at things with a different lens.  Whatever the case, be prepared to be very upfront and honest with them.

Best of luck to you!

I found this interesting (from section I):

Wow, I read things like this on here and I learn how lucky I am to be in my little council.  I also volunteer at the district level and I have heard the SE tell the DE's (and carry through on it) that if they ran a district event and showed a profit he would fire them.  His theory being that if your event showed a profit, you didn't offer the kiddos enough program.  We may be struggling for funds, we may be spread out all over a huge territory of rural counties, but at least we don't have to deal with the kind of stuff I read about on here.  I feel for you guys, hang in there and find a role where you can maximize the experience for the scouts and keep your sanity.  Also, I promise not to gripe so much about stuff that goes on at my council. 

I helped run the BB gun range at the council cub camp out this past weekend.  Long, cold and wet days to get things set up and then run (to be fair, the archery crew had it worse.  At least we had cover on the rifle range.)  So, the activities are over and I'm heading back to the dining hall to get some sweet nectar of life (coffee) and ran into some of the Cubs.  One said "You're range master KYScouter from BB, right?"  I said yes and he proceeded to tell me that was the most fun thing he did all camp.  Another little guy recognized me and introduced me to his mom.....high praise from a little boy. 

The weekend was totally worth it!

I've filled in for a tiger den leader a few times, due to illness and whatnot.  What I've learned is that the little guys work great with silly.  If you can take a lesson plan and make it  silly, that's great.  Den Cheers?  yep.  Den yells?  "Are there any Tigers here?"  Each boy stops, makes his "tiger face" and yells "rawr!!"   Den leader doing a pantomime of a camel with marshmallow humps while the boys sing "Alice the Camel?"  They love it.

The other thing is to turn it into a game, especially an activity game if the boys are starting to get wiggly.... scout oath or law relay?  Check (Put the Words on cut up pieces of poster board, teams of 3-4 boys and they have to take turns running down to get the pieces and put them in order)  This works with healthy snack relay, basically anything where you can turn it into a game where they are running around,that's great. 

The little guys aren't expecting us to be a master of public speaking, keep it fun, keep it on their level and you'll do fine!

@@KYScouter, (welcome to the forums,btw) are you really expecting that level of demand?

We are at 46 boys and we require the parents to stay with their boys.  With the various younger siblings that also end up staying, we're really close to the max number of people we can have, so even 4-5 would likely push us over the occupancy rating,  We already cross our fingers and hope the fire marshal doesn't show up for Pinewood or a couple of our other events where we have grandparents, uncles, etc. 

That said, in our rural area where the girl scout unit is mostly about doilies and cookies, I fully expect we would have at least 20-25 who would join today if we let them.  We are also trying to get a boy scout troop restarted, since we have none in the county.  Our AOL boys who finished last year only had the option of going out of county to join a troop, and to my knowledge, none of them did, so we're making a push to find volunteers to form a troop.  Most likely our volunteers will be our current AOL parents, but they have younger boys in the cubs and have already said they would prefer to meet on the same night as the cubs.

As I mentioned, at the Cub level I see no problems, honestly, with letting the girls in.  The main issue is just space, and honestly like it always is with our current pack, volunteers.  We've had good luck with going to the dens and saying that if no one steps up to be den leader, we won't be able to do it.  Since we already have two of our 6 dens led by moms, I expect the same method would work with girl dens. 

Oh well, I guess this will be a problem for down the road.  My immediate concerns are re-charter and trying to recruit another member of the pack committee.... maybe even one who wants to be the chair and take over one of my hats!  lol  I'm also the COR, so between unit, district and council duties, I would really like to turn the planning and budget duties for the pack over to someone else.

Here's the problem that I see, as I'm not opposed to letting girls into Cub Scout, it's a problem of logistics.  Our CO is a civic club and we meet in their building.  We have 45 boys and we are bursting at the seams of what our building can accommodate. So, where do we put the girls who join?  We physically don't have the space to add more kids.  Okay, so we're a civic club, if we don't admit girls, we're going to get sued into oblivion.  I guess I have two  choices, find another local CO for a girls pack or recommend to my club that we no longer sponsor scouts period.  This, on top of national "kindly" deciding to effectively steal 1/4 of my pack budget with their fee increase after recruitment has led to this whole thing being more stressful than I care to think about right now.  I'm not at burn out yet, but I can see it from here.

Chartered Org. Rep. and Pack Committee Chair Here,

First, I've always been told in District Committee meetings and training sessions that I have attended that the districts are just operational units of the council, so any district event is really a council event.  Whoever does your advancement report, in my Pack that is me, is the one who you need to talk to about the award.  It's a unit level award that goes on an advancement report, it's not like you are awarding a kid the Silver Beaver here.  It's my understanding that ether the Den Leader, the Cub Master or the Pack Advancement chair (which in my Pack falls to me as Committee Chair) can sign off on the award.  I'm reminded of the sign off of the approximately 9000 little videos I had to watch for training, "Keep it Simple, Make it Fun!"