BubbaBear

(This message has been edited by BubbaBear)

Here is something interesting for you...when I was going through Woodbadge, one of the staffers had us say the pledge with one very simple modification...he removed the comma in the phrase "...one nation, under God.... Say that to yourselves (both ways, with and without the comma) and tell me what you think. Jake

I spent about twenty minutes writing my premise for this argument and wiped it out in one second!! Let me try again... I have argued that compromise should be used in this issue of homosexuals in Scouting. Bob White strongly disagrees with me saying that not all things in life are open to compromise...okay here it goes... I am not implying that all things are open to compromise, I believe everything IS. In actuality, what I am proposing is States Rights versus Federal Mandate. Let's use your example of marriage, Bob White: If your wife says to you "OK Bob White, get dress

Sorry sctmom, I tried to get back to your thread here. Good time to make yet another thread... See you all there... Jake

Now you got the idea! Quiote has passed the knot...

OK People...listen up! For a very long time the pro's and cons of the homosexual debate have been posted here...we are currently a "house divided"...what I am looking for in this thread is for everyone whom has an opinion (on this subject) to express it, and express it once. I do not expect that this issue will go away, but I would like to see those of us whom have been debating this topic to "virtually shake hands", and leave this arena as friends. Dan, your last two sentnces didn't make sense to me...would you repeat?

Hey sctmom...if you like men with multiple personalities, then you ought to get to know me better...they have recorded 12 so far... :)

Hey Rooster...on the lighter side... Keep repeating this mantra... I WILL RESIST THE TEMPTATION...I WILL RESIST THE TEMPTATION...I WILL RESIST THE TEMPTATION! God's Strength to you my firend, Jake

Having the last word here means nothing people... this is about ALL the things we are supposed to be teaching the kids...if we can't practice those things here, how can we view ourselves as good examples for the boys? If it is a matter of me being the moderator (Scoutmaster) let me know, I am not afraid to step down, although my intentions are to not comment specifically, but rather provide a "Scoutmaster's Minute". Jake

Koool! (as the kids would say) Yup, you guys have stated the matter as I now understand it. Most women I have spoken to have voiced the subject in this very way. I agree that sctmom would be one of the great ones. I'm asking you folks to look at my new thread and ponder it a while. I am not asking you to give up on your stance, or even to look at it from my opinion,just to help me start a healing process. We need to begin coming to some unity as Scouters here, and to get back to the task of Scouting. As Rooster7 said... Peace! Jake

Folks, When I was Scoutmaster, I started a little ritual at the end of each meeting, campout, activity based loosely on a Roberts Rules of Order procedure called Pass the Gavel...I called it Pass the Knot. I made a Monkey's Fist Knot and told the boys (and adults) that only the person holding the knot was allowed to speak. The person speaking was allowed to say whatever they wanted so long as 1) they did not attack anyone personally 2)did not "put down" the opinions of other speakers, 3) did not interupt anyone, and 4) when they were finished, they would "pass the knot" to the next

Folks, I PROMISE, this is one subject I will not touch. :^o

Rooster...I am not a man of the cloth, as you. I cannot effectively debate the issues of religion because I am not well equipted. God has not intended me to serve in that capacity. I do believe that he has intended me to be a peacemaker, and that is what I am doing in this forum. My mom used to always tell me "It takes two to tango", which means that there are two side to every story. In order to make the "tango" both partners have to cooperate. Noone is asking you to turn your head to what God (or you) says is sin. What is being asked of you and others, is to let that be a matter be

I have never met such outstanding people in all my life. That is the other reason that I cannot be pulled from Scouting. llwyn...I am humbled by yours, sctmom's and tj's acceptance of my being, BUT, once again folks, this is NOT about me or you, its about the boys and our future. Sorry to burst the bubble, llwyn, but I have accepted the District Camping Committee Chair in lieu of Commissioner status. Actually, I can do double duty from that position. Jake

Yes, but often times better behavior comes with time...sometimes not, but that doesn't stop you from continue loving those children, does it? And remember the compassion Jesus Christ had for all the sick and poor, and how He went to the exptreme of giving His Life so that we all may live. He still loves us even though we all contiue to sin.

That is a problem I see, too. No one should get short-changed. Let me try to explain my view this way...in a Boy Scout Troop, the PLC sets the rules for the rest of the troop. The SPL may say, "Fellas, when we arrive at camp, I want each patrol to begin making the evening meal. The meal needs to be nutritious, and should include the following food groups: 1) Meat 2) Vegetable and 3)a Bread. Now you plan how this meal will be prepared, and remember; if anyone gets ill from what you cook, it is your responsibility to clean up the mess!" The PLC has determined that they want a campou

Rooster... I am a simple man. I choose to view the Words of Christ Jesus in a simple manner because if I try to "understand" or "know" just what he is saying, then I as a human have to use my mind to interpret the words. I choose to take his simple teachings to my heart...i.e. "Love thy neighbor as yourself". In the context of this simple statement (and please forgive me I am not a theologian) I do not see where Jesus is telling me to love my neighbor, except if has stolen or should he be deceitful or in the case before us; if he is homosexual. I believe that I can show His Love by p

Quiote, That was a very concise answer, I appreciate conversation without rhetoric. Forgive me for reading between the lines...I understand that you, Ed Mori, Rooster7 and others view God as the foremost motivating factor in your ministry of Scouting. Despite what you all might think, I have a deep respect for that. Truly. Allussions have been made to a religious conspiricy in the decision we are debating and I personally don't believe that to be the case. As I said, I just think that like minds think alike. In your last reply, you added (in fine print) "for the most part"

sctmom...Thank you very much, your comments mean a great deal to me. Actually, I was hoping to get the goat of some of those who feel that we have to accept everything blindly. If that was the case, what could happen to the children we are charged with? That is the whole foundation of my arguments; how the boys will be affected is my underlying motivation. I am not concerned with other's moral beliefs, not their form of religious beliefs, nor whether it is a concession on either side's parts. What I do know to be factual is that the practice of homosexuality will not go away (once a

Quiote...yeh, I am hopeful too, although I choose to use the descriptive term "cynical" (these is a basic difference). OK, so the fundamental difference between you and I in this idea of the Scouting Principles is that I believe it should be an even balance (and that is how I perceive the founders as having perceived it), and you believe that the Duty to God comes first and carries more weight?

Thanks sctmom for your validation as well. In taking offense to my remarks, or at least to what you thought I was saying, you have demonstrated that good leaders come in all forms. I had hoped that my private message to you would have explained why I made that statement, but instead you chose to ignore it an take offense. Sorry, that was not my intention. It is not surprising (to me at least) that so many take offense when discussing things openly. I keep forgetting that Scouting (for one) is not a round table but appears to have definite stations around it in places. Respectful

Thank you Rooster7... You have validated the point I was trying to bring out by making that "I don't agree with Women Scouters statement". The point is this: the decision to accept females in the traditional male roles in Scouting was a compromise. In reality, my wife and I had a terrible argument over this issue of women Scouters. It was she that enlightened me as to the need to fill positions not currently filled by willing and able men. I backed down because in that light she was right, the positions need to be filled. The way you stated the topic in much better than t

littlebillie- You may be right...I don't know. As far as the lawyer topic, I do not have direct knowledge of that hover I venture to say the the ACLU and others are watching this forum just as the BSA and other interested parties are. This is not the sort of discussion that goes unnoticed. I have heard references to TJ and NJCubScouter as such, but I think they are much too intelligent to be lawyers! Quiote- I am not suggesting a "religious conspiracy". I am saying, though, that like minds think alike. I am also saying this, I have found that the professionals in Scouting are

I wonder what was going through Martin Luther's mind when he opposed the only Christian Church at the time...and since then, how many factions of the "Christian Church" do we have? All based on what the Bible says. If that is the case why are there so many different factions? This talk of religion is all fine and well but the point that needs to be discussed is whether the BSA is creating policy weighted towards one of the three principle of the Scouting program?

Bob White, I want to thank you and others for the open discussion we have had. It has been very reminescent of the "America: Love it or Leave It" days of the sixties. Having accomplished the task of my oldest son earning his Eagle Award, I guess its maybe time to move along. Jake (the person formerly known as BubbaBear) Lekan