Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by oldbuzzard

  1. 46 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

    No Boy Scout troop with a long and proud history is going to drop Boy and call themselves Scout Troop Xxx

    Troop flags don't say "Boy Scouts", just Troop 123 and a BSA emblem. Folks don't mind carrying those and with this name change those won't have to be replaced.

    I know several troops with 75-100+years at the same CO and plenty of Eagles who will happily switch to calling themselves Scout Troop XXX probably starting next week, certainly by summer camp.


  2. To quote the "Guide to Safe Scouting"


    Scouts and guests who are being encouraged to become registered Scouts and volunteers are automatically insured while in attendance at a scheduled activity. Other guests are not covered. Each council also will be able to elect to cover family members of registered Scouts while these family members are in attendance at BSA-sponsored events. This is optional coverage.

    It seems clear to me that as potential recruits both generally and for the special Summer leadership clinic these girls would be covered under national and council insurance just like any other kid who filled out a waiver and attended with a troop.

  3. We have 3 crews going on a unit BWCA trip this summer. I'm going with a 12yo crew. Next Spring the older kids are talking about going back to Seabase and doing SCUBA. This is off the table for the younger crew due to HA age limits.... and yet I see Camp Emerald Bay on Catalina Island runs a "Rugged" SCUBA adventure that gets you PADI open water certified for 12+yo. The other "Rugged" adventures look similarly HAish to me. My personal inclination is to run multiple unit  HA trips for what Seabase would cost for the younger Scouts, but I was wondering what other "Rugged" council programs are out there?

  4. 3 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

    Our troop is too small to support a 10 hour trip... we don't even go past 4 hours for summer camp.

    Fair enough. The 10 hrs in Skip's post just jumped out at me since that is the limit for a single days drive in the G2SS... so the limit of a more affordable drivable trip for many troops.

  5. 36 minutes ago, Cambridgeskip said:

    It's a bit further than "around", it's 10 hours drive to the Scottish Highlands!

    To be fair, Brian is within 10 hrs of Baxter State Park/Katahdin in Maine and much closer to the Whites in NH and the Adirondaks in NY. All three would be great places to run a "convenient" Winter mountaineering course for east coast scouts.

    Northern Tier is 20+hrs away and is extreme Winter camping with no mountains.

    The only non-unit mountaineering options I know of in North America are a Summer program in Eastern British Columbia through Scouts Canada and an opportunity at one of the Alaska High Adventure Bases. A less extreme option like your Scottish camp would be a great addition to BSA's program. 

  6. I know many have wondered about names and such with BS4G. In our council's new branding they are dropping "boy", "boy scouts", "BSA", and council. So going from Northern Star Council of BSA to Northern Star Scouting. See, http://www.northernstarbsa.org/refreshing-our-brand-for-scouting-today

    I would assume this is at least in the spirit of what we'll eventually see from National. Though I'm not sure exactly how, Scouting America sounds like an outdoor store and Scouts America sounds like gas station.

  7. 38 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

    IAsk yourself how many scout families in your troop are realistically candidates for this.  

    I feel like we should be the target audience... I have a 9yo CS and a 11yo BS. The value proposition of the 3 of us going down for a week at $650 is pretty compelling... but looking at the descriptions the activities are weak. So we have horse rides on docile horses and climbing on very easy routes and short hikes. This looks like Cub Camp or First Year Scout Camp. That's not what I want to see at Philmont. B-P and others talk about the mythopoetic  value of Scouting activities. Beyond the physical majesty, Philmont also serves as some sort of pinnacle of high adventure. Yeah, that's debatable but *this* family camp detracts from that image.

    1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

    To be fair, this is one of a number of programs at Philmont.  The "core" program (treks) is still about the Scouts themselves. And hopefully always will be.

    For us, the *core* program is exactly what we are looking for in a family camp. My 11yo will have just done a BWCA trip in June and my 9yo is going to go into Webelos over the Summer and will cross over at 10 1/2 next Spring. He is bridling at the lack of adventure. A family scouting program could get around the informed consent problems and if provided more skilled guides get younger kids into the backcountry.

    I think the 14yo official HA cutoff is hurting Scouting. Somehow the Y camps can take 12 and 13yos on 60-120mile BWCA trips while BSA waits 2 more years. Next year our troop is going back to SeaBasa but we need to find a different activity for the younger Scouts. That might be fine if these activities were so elite but plenty of younger Scouts could do these.

    My ideal Family Scouting trip would be something like a hypothetical trip with my wife, her sister, and their mom with the 4 grandkids between 11/12-13/14 going to MOHAB and doing the packrafting/backpacking course. For family trips I want to leverage the guiding expertise of the Scouts to do real HA not daycamp. So for us the Philmont Family Adventure falls short. The boys and I will probably spend the week of July 4th either backpacking on the SHT or the Kek or canoeing on the Namekegon.

    • Upvote 1
  8. I think these requirements are about finding a system that works for a given kid. I think online or in the crappy workbook is likely to have the out of sight/out of mind problem. So for a given kid something on their phone or something on a calendar/planner may work better but that'll vary from kid to kid.

    For us my son started Personal Fitness at 10.5yo and I had him come up with his own system. He just used a sheet of copy paper with divided in 2 columns with boxes for each day. It had the dates at the top, then the chart, and a small area to record results for that 2 weeks at the bottom. So for PF you had 6 sheets. His first design looked bad. So I suggested maybe he could use a ruler and after that he managed it himself. It was a simple system. The current sheet was magneted to the fridge so you had a regular daily reminder every time you got a snack. After your bi-weekly fitness test you had the natural reminder to make a new chart for the next 2 weeks. He didn't do the other requirements so he just used this for his T2F requirements but the overall system was pretty smooth.

  9. 24 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

    And the Outdoor Code was adopted in 1954, I believe.

    Here is a GBB Boys Life article about it:



    Sounds like BSA meant it to be not just for scouts but something that was evangelized to schools and civic groups hence the generic patriotic "American" reference. Sort of like an early Keep America Beautiful campaign.

    • Upvote 1
  10. 6 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

    My recollection is the Arrow of Light requires that at least six months have passed since you finished the fourth grade.  Did they change that?  

    The actual requirement is "Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade or at least six months since becoming ten years old." It is a bit of an edge case but both of my boys have early September birthdays in a school district with a hard requirement of 5yo by Sept. 1st for Kindergarten. As such older son crossed over having done all the Webelos and AoL requirements in 9 months as a 10.5yo 4th grader... if he hadn't he would have joined boy scouts as an 11yo in the Fall not as a AoL crossover the following spring. Younger son will do the same next year if he does the work. There are bound to be a few girls who also meet this requirement and joined as 10yo 4th graders who could move up six months from now.

    ETA: I agree this isn't a huge deal since it is a one time thing.

  11. 1 hour ago, Treflienne said:

    My pet theory is that part of the problem for GSUSA is that GSUSA national headquarters is located in New York City. (Not a good spot for outdoors-loving people.)  At least BSA headquarters is in Texas, not in the middle of New York City.

    And yet the in many ways the peak of American Scouting was in the pre-1954 days when BSA was in New York City. Hillcourt wrote many of his classic books in NY and later in NJ. BSA didn't move to TX until '78. I think your geographical determinism is too simplistic.

    • Upvote 2
  12. 13 hours ago, Treflienne said:

    I found Eagle1993's description of their local troop's plans for adding
    girls very interesting.  (a girl patrol in existing troop, or a girl
    troop meeting at same time/place as the boys.)

    Has anyone heard, in their towns, of anyone planning on starting up an
    actually separate troop for girls?  (I.e. at least meeting at a
    different time or in a different room than the boys, even if sharing
    some resources.) 

    Our CO has made it clear they want us to be as close to coed as possible. So, we are planning to run parallel troops with new female leaders and all girls patrols but shared meetings and outings. Our IH has volunteered to run interference with the council if needed but it looks like this model is emerging as an official model.



    Whether in a single gender girl troop or paired with a brother, single gender boy troop, Scouts lead and run weekly meetings,


    • Thanks 1
  13. I see 2 problems with this idea.

    The minor problem is these races aren't free so for a crew to use this approach there will be a non-negligible cost... maybe that is worthwhile if it is enough of a motivator <shrug>

    The major problem is these tend to be road events.Running or backpacking on pavement is way more taxing joints and muscles. If my wife trains for road marathons she is injury prone and yet she can train for 50 mile trail ultras and be fine. Her races  are places like the Superior Hiking Trail, so rocky, rooty, hilly like the AT or Philmont. I think training solely on roads raises the risk of injury and doesn't train all those small stabilizer muscles used on uneven terrain.

    In addition to shakedown weekends, why not just do your own 5-10-15 mile day hikes with packs at your local park with decent trails... free and more functional training to boot. 

    • Upvote 1
  14. 16 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

    Journalistic and Political BS.  There is no evidence at all that the lobbyists hired by the BSA are working the halls of the capitol in opposition to this act.  They could be working on many other things.


    If only the BSA had some way to confirm what their lobbyists were doing....


    The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reached out to lobbyists representing each of the organizations opposed to Spencer’s bill but received no response. 

    Right... given that... I'm fine assuming BSA is lobbying against this bill for the financial liability reasons outlined in the article until they say otherwise.

  15. 3 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

    Got to pay for the Summit somehow - and it looks like the Boy Scouts of America is counting on the Man Scouts of Neverland to do so.

    Yeah... that framing was extremely off-putting.  Especially since they could tweak it slightly and have a great national Powderhorn course. Combine the skill development/fun with more location neutral workshops, etc. Unfortunately that would have Scouters building their own adventure instead of buying Summit's.

    Or even better make a weekend of day long short courses. A half day workshop on building climbing anchors and a half day trad climbing at the New or sport climbing at Sommerville Lake. A day of whitewater kayak skills . A day of mountain bike skill work... etc etc. Three day-long technical short courses for $300... wow sign me up. Outdoor Disney not so much.


    • Upvote 2
  16. 2 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    What's unsaid is what staff did, if anything, to set up a safe-sledding area.

    Do we know this was on the camp hill?

    When we were at Andersen last winter the cubs did some sledding on the path outside our cabin with only pack oversight. This year at Stearns  the south facing camp hill was unsleddable but the boys used the camps sleds sitting around our cabin to sled on the hill the cabin was built into and another hill nearby.

    On the helmet front... they are recommended not required. My kids sled in gym class at school and noone has helmets. The parks and rec people don't have helmets. On the local hills and at troop outings my kids wear their skating helmets but I've seen maybe 3 other kids in helmets in the last few years. Helmet use for sledding is where helmet use for skiing was 20 years ago. This will speed up that change in Scouts, which is a good thing, but I wouldn't be too hard on the leaders in this case.


  17. 2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    Assuming all G2SS guidelines were followed, and not really up to speed on Cub camping, it has been a while.  I was under the impression (thought??) that Cub camping and overnighters were all family camping.  Should he have been there without parents?  Can they have another leader / parent be responsible?

    Just curious on how that should work.

    For pack campouts, they prefer you to be with your parent(s) but the firm requirement is that all cubs must be under the direct charge of an adult and a non-leader adult can be in charge of one kid who isn't their own. We had a couple of dads at our winter campout with son and best friend.

  18. 59 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

    I suspect we will be doing sports leagues next, though probably, somewhere, that is happening

    From our church's troop centennial history:


    1936: Troop 17 becomes known for its hockey team. Wins are frequent in bloody battles within the St. Paul Scout Hockey League.

    I wouldn't mind reading more about this episode in early scouting.

  19. The video is private/password protected for me.... 

    Did it explicitly say 2 adults for boy dens vs 2 adults(at least one female) for girls dens on outings. Or, are we just assuming the old rules "still" apply to boy dens.

    The simplest and in my opinion most likely explanation is that both genders of dens and the rest of scouting is moving to venturing rules with at least one leader of the same gender must be present for all attendees and National just hasn't gotten around to telling us yet or updating g2ss.


  • Create New...