krypton_son

Sounds great to me.  Shooting sports is something that should never be lost. 

I'm torn on this one.  I agree with augustspecht, leaders are responsible for Scouts safety no matter what, and we all know that they've been known to sneak things into camp that they shouldn't  (some adults have been known to as well).  But at the same time I wouldn't want someone going through my things without my permission.  I remember working at Scout camp in the early 90's.  One of the staff was known for his love of illegal substances.  The camp director got wind of it and called in the local Sherriff who went with him into the Scouts trailer at camp and searched his bags.  They found plenty of drugs and ended up firing and called his parents in to pick him up.  I have no idea if charges were filed or if he got in any legal trouble (his father was a long time financer in the council and he tended to get away with just about anything).

I've always carried.  And always will.  I'd rather have one and not need one than not have one and need it.  Camping in back country where you can't call for help, can't get ahold of the police and there are wild animals everywhere, you'd better believe someone should have a weapon.  I've been in Scouting for over 30 years and been in a few situations where one of the leaders having a gun saved lives.  It can and does happen.  I'm not saying that you should bring it into meetings and pull it out for everyone to see, but responsible adults having a concealed weapon is not a problem for me.  Besides, BSA policy doesn't trump the law.  In most states (mine included) your vehicle is your private property and legally no group, person or organization can legally prevent you from having a weapon in your property.  Obviously safety should always be a concern and should be practiced.  Over half of the adult leaders in our troop have guns in their vehicles, and every one of us is perfectly fine with it.

Wow, Girl Scouts are losing their heads over this:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/girl-scouts-slam-boy-scouts-decision-accept-girls-134608349--abc-news-topstories.html

 

"The Boy Scouts' house is on fire," Girl Scouts told ABC News in a statement today. "Instead of addressing systemic issues of continuing sexual assault, financial mismanagement and deficient programming, BSA's senior management wants to add an accelerant to the house fire by recruiting girls."

I can't disagree with that.

I guess since anyone can join, why not: http://www.trendolizer.com/2017/10/boy-scouts-to-allow-old-men-into-cub-scouts-program.html

Boy Scouts has always been a safe and fun place for boys to be boys.  A place for boys to learn to be men.  That's exactly what it was made for in the first place.  It has always been a place were boys gather together to learn from men.  It builds better men for the future.  It's not anti-girl, but pro-boy.  I think that's important.  At the same time, girls should have the same thing.  That's what Girl Scouts are about.  What is wrong with it being a boys club?  Why is exclusivity so hated now?  Mentorship and education for boys from men is a good thing, not a bad thing.  I would never want to force boys into Girl Scouts, that's their thing and should stay that way.  This move goes against everything that the group was established for in the first place.  I have no problem with a coed group that teaches both boys and girls the same thing as Boy Scouts, if parents want to put their children in it, that's fine.  But don't force it upon a group that doesn't want it.  Someone earlier said that this won't "ruin" Boy Scouts.  I disagree.  It completely changes it and makes it something completely different.  It fundamentally is no longer BOY Scouts.

It seems like nothing but a money grab to me.  Boy Scouts has been hemorrhaging members in the last decade.  After they announced that gay and "transgendered" kids could be in, their numbers dropped significantly.  Now they're getting scared so they figure that they'll cater even more to the pressure of the left and allow girls.  What they don't realize is that Scouting is so far from what it was originally and has lost so much of it's focus and meaning.  Doing this just furthers that.  Next thing they'll remove God from Scouting, then guns, etc.  Until it's unrecognizable by anyone.  It makes me ashamed to be a part of it anymore.  When did exclusivity become such a bad thing to so many?

I've tried to learn sign language before.  I'm partially deaf (about 80% deaf in one ear and 10% in the other, which I suppose would be insulting to any truly deaf person to call myself deaf) so I've always thought that it would be good to at least know some sign language.  I've never been any good at it though.  I commend anyone who can use it proficiently.

It's called The Black Magic and the non alcoholic beer it serves is extraordinary.

What??  I almost fainted when I read that.  Balderdash I say!

Mmmm, that is a bit one sided, isn't it. We already know from members on this forum that families have left the BSA as a result of this decision. If going back meant gaining more members than it looses, then it's worth considering.

 

Of course membership is not my reasoning for being against the decision. I think the BSA is asking unit members to risk pushing these youth further into mental illness. 

 

Barry

I agree 100%.

I didn't realize that either.  It gives me hope that I might get one now after some vast clerical error.

Anyone here around when BSA suddenly decided to "main stream" what were then called "handicapped" Scouts?

 

One day, I suddenly had two totally blind Scouts - brothers - whose unit had been broken up.  As it turned out, the problems were few and the boys dealt with them in a way that made me proud and humble.

 

But one family - really one mom - pulled its two Scouts out and moved to another troop because it was "unfair to burden" their patrol with the two blind Scouts.  (One son had been held back a year in school so his athletic career would benefit in high school.  Very competitive.)  The SPL pronounced that the decision was "weird."

 

A few years later, the "special" troop was OK again, rechartered, and the brothers went back by parents' decision due to transportation issues.  Tears were shed.

I would argue that that is a very, very different situation.

I feel the same way!  I think sitting down for a cuppa around a campfire would be entertaining!  If you are ever in New Hampshire. . .I am buying.

Sounds like a great time to me.

@@krypton_son,

 

Judging from some of your other posts, you seem to be one of the most laid back, non judgemental, and open minded people on this forum.  But I feel a need to disagree with you on this one.

@@gumbymaster,  I like to think so.  I'm pretty much open to most anything.  I like everyone.  But I'll always voice my opinion if asked. When you're as ugly as I am, it's hard to be judgmental of others.

The German's beer booth is likely to be a more pragmatic concern.

My God, that would be my favorite part.....

OK, If anyone was insulted, offended, or felt I was un-Scoutlike in any way: Mea Culpa Maxima.

I am sorry.

Paul

I believe the remark was made towards me.  I took no offence whatsoever to it.  Just one person stating his opinion and using a word that is misunderstood by so many nowadays.  We have differing opinions and you are welcome to voice yours. 

Putting on moderator hat. This is the most civil and polite discussion of this topic I've seen.

We like to fight politely. 

I wouldn't think that there would be any issues.  The policies of other countries Scouting organizations are probably not a very big deal to us.  I think the point of our pushback with the transgender issue in the BSA is just the principle of it  (at least to me anyway).  I don't hate transgenders.  Never have.  And I have no problem with them being in a Scouting program.  Just not a group designed for boys only.  I imagine that that is the same for most of us that are against it.  I would never force myself into the Girl Scouts even if for some reason I wanted to be a girl.  But it's our program, our history, our group.  Scouting from other countries is those countries group.  If they've chosen to let them in, then that's on them.

Name calling. Nice. 

pchadbo was just referring to the tag I put above my Icon on here.  He's not calling me anything that I haven't called myself.  I felt that he was polite in his rebuttal of my rant.

For me it is simple, the Boy Scouts is a place for boys to be boys with other boys, and to introduce girls, even those who live their lives as boys, will throw off the whole dynamic.

And that is the point.  100%.  It's not about bigotry or hate, it's about keeping true to the original meaning and point of the Boy Scouts of America.

Barking spiders.  Just heard it the other day for NSP.

I love that.

Today in a 56 to 43 Senate vote, Rex Tillerson was confirmed as the new Secretary of State.

Can't think of a better start to the day.

I pray that you never have to see the anguish, self loathing, depression, confusion and struggles, that a transgender person feels, having watched it first hand, having it leading to the death of a very good friend at her own hand, I know what she went through.  Essentially disowned by her family, shunned by the public, and called every name you can think of, I can only think that if this policy change allows ONE youth to LIVE to be happy and well adjusted as an adult, then it is a success.

 

This is not a choice that they make.  They do not choose to be outcasts in society, they do not choose to be ridiculed, they do not choose to be told just deal with it. A little understanding and compassion goes a long way.

 

A Scout is Kind

I would have to disagree.  I would love to look like a model or have the ability to fly but it's never going to happen.  I can't just decide that I feel like I can fly and then jump off a building and have it be true.  Sorry, life doesn't work that way.  I have no problem with people who decide they want to be a different gender or race or animal (Yes, that happens) but don't force that on others.  Just because they want to be a boy doesn't mean that they are.  And it sure as heck doesn't mean that others need to accept that.  I would never force myself into a group that I don't belong in just because I want to be in it.

The mission isn't to create "men", it's to build character, something that is not exclusive to one gender.

What?  You might want to go re-read some of the handbooks and history of the BSA.

SO again I will tilt at windmills. . .

This policy applies to BOYS who live, act and identify as BOYS (regardless of genitalia).

IF you get a TG scout applying to your Troop, you may know that they are TG but you also may not. 

If it is up to the TG Scout enrolling, they most likely would NOT want you to know.

THEY ARE A BOY.

THEY WANT TO BE TREATED AS A BOY.

TREAT THEM AS A BOY.

 

The rest is adult crap.

Except that they are not a boy.  And they never truly can be.  This is a program for boys only.  To help them become men.  If a person can never become a man, then this is not something they should be involved in.  I understand that someone might want to be included, there have been girls who desperately want to be in Boy Scouts and earn Eagle.  I feel bad for them, but I would not let them in.  I might love aspects of certain girls only clubs or organizations, but I would never force myself into one just because I want to be thought of as a girl.   I understand that some people think that they can just "feel" like a boy and think that they are one, but in reality that's not how it works.