The Latin Scot

Wow ... this represents a gross misunderstanding of both the BSA uniform and the awards mentioned.

 

The BSA offers no awards or insignia based on a boys heritage or ethnicity. The "Asian American Award" does not exist. Rather, the items referred to are knots representing larger awards given for outstanding service to, and promotion of the BSA among, certain communities. There is one for serving predominantly Asian communities, one for inner city groups, one for Latin American/Hispanic communities ... even one for serving Native American youth. And even more to the point, the BSA just recently created one single square knot representing all such awards together, so Scouters wearing a knot for service to Latin communities wear the same knot as those recognized for service to inner-city youth or disabled groups.

 

These awards are not given in recognition of heritage, but rather for adults who have done service for specific communities amongst whom Scouting is less prevalent yet could be of positive impact. They are not worn by Scouts because they are not awarded to them. They are given to Scouters who work through the BSA in service to communities in need. Also they are not earned, they are awarded, with the exception of those who work with disabled communities, in the which case it is again for adults, and again, in recognition of service and meeting stringent requirements.

 

The creation of this "award" seems like a very reactionary move in response to a problem that ...... never existed. And as has been noted, they cannot implement official uniform items without the approval of National.

 

Unless it goes on the right pocket, with "temporary insignia," of course.

No button? Which uniform was it? Even the new centennials have a button under the flap specifically for pocket dangler awards. Is it an older uniform? Am I too curious? Lol.

 

Oh and @@MMEZest1997 I should correct myself; the pin version of the Powder Horn medal would be worn centered, at the BOTTOM of the flap, so that it lies on about the same spot as it would have if it were a dangler (I spend a lot of time looking this stuff up, lol). But your son should consider himself lucky to have the older version; I think it's superior myself. ;-)

They said no because they have never had Den Chiefs?!?!?! Are they out their minds?

 

I have had a young man serving as Den Chief for the Webelos Den I am over for 6 months now, and I will say this straight up - he is one of the greatest assets I have in training these young boys. He is a helpful, cheerful, sober-minded young man who helps me out with virtually all our activities; he sets a solid example of good behavior and uniforming; he is a friend to the younger boys, and a model to the older ones. If they are unsure about letting him assume this responsibility, have them read this post!

 

The BSA has a booklet specifically designed for the Den Chief (called The Den Chief Handbook obviously enough). If the Cub leaders and your son read through it, they will get an idea of how fulfilling a job it can be. Any den leader worth his salt would be crazy to turn down the chance to have a good Den Chief working by his side! And for his leaders to say no just because it hasn't been done - well, you just tell them that kind of attitude goes against the very spirit of Scouting!

 

Here are some links that you may want to pass off to his leaders which highlight how effective a Den Chief can be. I might be slightly biased, but I think to deny a group of Cub Scouts the benefits of having an enthusiastic Scout like your son in their den is nothing less than shameful. Here are the links:

 

http://scoutingmagazine.org/2016/12/meet-den-leaders-best-friends-denners-den-chiefs/

 

http://scoutingmagazine.org/2010/09/hail-to-the-chief/

 

http://scoutingmagazine.org/2006/11/scouters-speak-making-better-use-of-den-chiefs/

Congratulations to your son! I assume the award he received is the newer version, which is a pin. This should be pinned centered and near the top of his left pocket flap; it will hang down a bit over the flap, but that's perfectly fine.

 

If he in fact received the old version of the award (which is still distributed at some Scout Stores), then it is a "pocket dangler," and you should hang it from the left pocket button (but under the flap which you close over the button) and it will indeed hang completely over his rank badge - it looks a little busy, true, but it is perfectly appropriate and correct! Again, congratulations to him for earning this award!

I don't understand the purpose of this item. If the individual is still wearing his uniform, doesn't such imply that he is a currently registered Scouter? And would that not mean he has some other position which would then, naturally, call for a new position patch? It's not as though Scoutmaster is such a revered position that it has to be memorialized while the wearer is still serving in some capacity. I dunno, it seem rather superfluous to me. And if he isn't a registered Scouter anymore, why is he in uniform in the first place? This seems to me like a poorly thought-out idea. No wonder the BSA does not recognize this as a legitimate insignia - it makes little to no sense.

Twelve regions, not twelve districts. The twelve districts were in Cleveland.

LOL oops! How remiss of me to write that wrong; I meant regions of course. But still I appreciate the information; I hadn't known how many there once were. And I am surprised by how few there are today; from 12 to 6 to 4 ... Is that a reflection of shrinking numbers or a more streamlined administration system?

 

I wouldn't mind leading a crowd of boys in song if it was something halfway respectable, but if I had to lead this particular diddy I would be nervous too! As well as slightly embarrassed, since one would think a region with as many great places as Region XII had would have a much cooler song than that.

Welcome! My Den is down to 2 boys right now, but by November I will have 8 and that is when I have planned to do our "Building a Better World" adventure, which requires the boys to reach out to another Scouting unit from another country - we would love to reach out to you then! My boys are 10 years old, but that shouldn't be too big an age difference.

 

Still, we are open to making connections even before that if you like. Our units here are pretty multi-cultural too; we have large Mexican and Taiwanese populations here, and so we have a nice spread of diversity in our ranks. Feel free to reach out if you would like, and I could possibly even put you in touch with our younger 8 or 9 year-old groups. Welcome to the forum!

Ah okay, so this is an old song then. I was wondering why I hadn't heard of the "12 districts." I put on my first Cub Scout uniform ... in 1992. So by then "Region XII" was long gone.  

 

Wow this make me feel young, lol.

Please tell me this is not our official regional song. Otherwise I might have to move back East. 😉

I have thought of this very problem actually; I know that my hatband enjoys flying off the hat when I am running around with the Den and I am considering sewing or gluing it in place so that I don't lose it. I was wondering if they sold spares through supply; sadly now I know. 

 

I will say that if you add the first-class emblem to the front (the large golden pin still sold in Scout Stores), then even without the hatband it keeps the hat from looking boring at least. I personally use the round universal emblem pin; I like it a lot. I will say this for sure - those are DARN LUCKY SCOUTS who receive campaign hats as gifts!

I can't imagine anybody looking at a 12 year-old boy and thinking he is a chef. And if they do think that, well ... I worry about that person. 

Sorry guys, I'm not buying it. There are a dozen ways to identify as scouts, neckers are just one option. Hats, t-shirts, patches, etc., stuff kids wear even outside of scouting activities. Any kid wearing something with a BSA symbol/text/trefoil on it is going to be recognizable as a scout. 

 

I'd even argue that we'd likely see kids wear scout gear more often and outside of scout functions if we were encouraging them to wear a scout hat than a necker. What kid would wear a necker alone while not at a pack/troop activity? I can already hear resistance I'd get if I told my son to wear a necker to school one day. But a hat? He'd be happy to. He's got a camp patch sewn on to his backpack. 

Luckily nothing really depends on whether or not you buy it. 

 

Where you are, maybe it's not "cool" in the which case I pity any kids growing up there. It sounds like you never have any contact or exposure to international troops either, which is also too bad since we see them fairly frequently in our national parks and amusement parks here in Southern California; it's not uncommon for Scouts here to camp with troops from Canada or Mexico, and sometimes various countries from Asia. 

 

Also the BSA is not "going out of the neckerchief business." That is really just a rumor it seems, though I am sure some would be happy to propagate it. But honestly, if these kids have such "issues" with uniforms that something as little as a neckerchief is keeping them from camping and the outdoors ... well, let's just say the problem has nothing to do with the neckerchief. 

Wait what part of California? Because people from the Northern half might as well be from another country if you ask me, lol.

Shouldn't we be encouraging them to make their own decision about this optional part of the uniform? I'd love to see some thoughtful debate among the boys about the pros/cons, personal opinions, etc., leading up to a vote on the topic. 

 

I don't perceive your thoughts and mine as being mutually exclusive.    We can certainly teach, inform, and encourage the boys in regards to the history and usefulness of the neckerchief, and then teach, inform, and encourage the boys to make their own decision as per the patrol method, which of course we should treat as all but sacrosanct. We aren't making the decision for them, but we are giving them a solid context for the issue which they can weigh and consider in discussion. 

 

ALSO: I have a question; do your fellows' units choose their neckerchiefs by patrol or by troop? In our local unit each patrol uses a different neckerchief , usually in their patrol colors, so each patrol is distinguished by their necker, their flag, and their patrol medallion. 

Oops! Double-post, delete this one please!

Not a fan of the somewhat vulgar title, but a great article otherwise. We should be encouraging both the history and the wearing of neckerchiefs in our Troops. They really are one of the most visible emblems of Scouting.

A valid point. Being a Scout is about character and commitment, integrity and loyalty. Those have no age limits in either direction.

ALSO: I was hoping there would be more Star Wars in this thread. 

 

@@desertrat77 It's great that you had such a good Scouting experience! And I am sure there are plenty of others with experiences similar to yours; I know I got mine at barely 14, and here I am today as involved as anybody.

 

So, looking at the math, it figures that of 55,000 new Eagles, if the median age is 17.32, that means more than half those 55,000 Scouts are over 17, and even if you divide up the rest of them evenly between the other ages (14, 15, 16, <17.32), that leaves only about 6,000 - 7,000 of them around the age of 14. Even as early as 1930, there were more Eagles in total than that! The number of 14 year-olds earning their Eagle is pretty small it seems. All the more reason for them to have my respect!

I might love to have some interaction between my Webelos den and some scouts over the pond! Sadly I only have one boy for a few months until the new crop of Bears turns 10, but I would perhaps love to keep in contact for when that happens!

I am never without my neckerchief. Since I am a Cub Scout leader, I wear the Adult Webelos Den Leader neckerchief, which is the crazy plaid number with gold trim. It isn't the most attractive item in the BSA wardrobe, but I am never without it, and the boys know it. Especially since they are Cubs, where the neckerchief is still required, I make sure to talk to them early about the usefulness and history of the neckerchief so that they simply expect to be wearing them when the bridge over in to the Scouting program. And since one of our traditions is for the New-Scout patrol to hand them their New-Scout patrol neckerchief when they bridge over, it takes them a long while to discover that wearing the necker is optional as a Boy Scout, nor do they want to give them up when they find out that it is. 

 

Starting them on the tradition while they are young Cubs is a huge part of getting it into their hearts and heads; luckily I am in a great position to do that as a Webelos leader.

Wow, I am surprised by some of the thoughts here, especially the "savvy" interviewer (hardly) who thought he knew what he was talking about what with his insulting and untrue comments to the college applicant. I was accepted into Stanford University and they didn't care two figs about my Eagle, while at BYU (where I decided to go and eventually worked with the admissions office for a time), they value the Eagle award highly but never look into the age of the Scout when he received it. 

 

And according to the numbers, which are in fact published by the BSA every year, 7th and 8th grade Eagles are NOT becoming more common - they are in fact becoming rarer and rarer. In 1949 the average of a new Eagle Scout was 14.6, but by 2015 it had climbed to 17.34. That's a huge difference - and that's the average age!

 

And I find it sad that we look at 14 year-old Scouts as though it was their parents "working the system." The program is designed to make it possible for boys that age to earn their Eagle. It's not working the system - it's meeting the requirements and earning the rank. Those boys have earned it just as much as those 17 year-olds; and I mean it when I say the boys - not their parents. We do them a great disservice when we demean them by assuming it was their parents employing some under-handed tactics to accomplish their own goals. These boys are hard-earned Eagles as much as any other boys who earn it.

 

The whole point of the Varsity and Venturing programs is to provide age-appropriate activities to young men who have grown past the merit-badge earning stage and want adventures that are more tailored to their interests and lifestyles. If there are young Eagles who you want to keep involved in Scouting, offer them these older-Scout programs, which have in fact been created specifically for just such young achievers. The Scouting program has already come up with solutions for this issue; the problem is that not enough units take advantage of the structure already built into the program.

We have a few young Eagles every year. Heck, I was barely 14 when I got my Eagle, same as both of my brothers (one was almost 15 and we teased him for taking so long!). I am grateful for your concern for the welfare of these young "eaglets" as you call them; lately people have almost thumbed their noses at these young achievers, as if somehow they were stealing prestige from the other Eagles whom they think are, somehow, "superior" to these hard-working 14 year-old leaders.

 

I just read this article that I LOVE from Ask Andy which I think we should all heed (my emphasis added):

 

"In 2015 we had 54,366 new Eagle Scouts, representing 6.57% of all eligible Scouts in that year. So the first thing we need to recognize is that in that year 827,489 Scouts of “Eagle age†stopped at Life or somewhere short of that rank. Further, when the average age of these Eagles is 17.34. This suggests that about 27 thousand Scouts were between 17.34 and 18 years old, while others were somewhere between 13 and 17.34. Of these, via crude extrapolation, some 6,000 or slightly more likely hadn’t reached their 14th birthdays before making it to Eagle.

 

In the face of these results—and this is the point here—we had maybe as many as 6,000 Scouts called “Baby Eagles†and up to 27,000 Scouts called “Cardiac Eagles.†So this could mean that upwards of 30 thousand or possibly more new Eagle Scouts were either diminished or deflated by these or similar pejorative remarks about their age when they achieved this landmark rank.

 

Really? Is this what we want to be doing? Especially when we look at some more numerical relationships… Do we realize that while Eagles in 2015 represented one out of every 15 Scouts, they represented one out of every 300 males between the ages of 11 and 18? That’s right: Only one young man out of every 300 in America between ages 11 and 18 becomes an Eagle Scout in any one year. So what happens when we count only those who fit into some people’s “acceptable†age range (somewhere between 14 and 17, or so it would seem)? Then we’re talking about one in 600. Let’s think about that. Is this really how we want to treat a boy—regardless of age—who’s just spent a lot of time and energy on the dozens and dozens of individual requirements for no less than 21 merit badges, plus all of the requirements for five (six, now) previous ranks? And he’s done this despite the challenges in every other part of his life, many of which are mandatory. Speaking of which, in Boy Scouting he’s a volunteer. That’s right, he can walk away from this anytime he wants, which as we’ve just learned, at least 299 out of 300 do, one way or the other.

 

The really weird part is that in other arenas, we do the reverse. We heap praise on the youngest gymnast to win an Olympic gold medal. We applaud loudly the oldest to win the Wimbledon trophy. But make it to Eagle at all and, when done sooner than 96% of all other Scouts, getting labeled a “Baby†is about as cruel a destiny as one can get, except possibly for those who earned Eagle within the stated time limit and got labeled “Cardiac.†Worse than wrong, this is insensitive and outright cruel.

 

In boards of review for this rank, I’ll often ask the Life Scout we’re chatting with why he believes he deserves to be an Eagle Scout. The very best answer possible—which, thankfully, we most frequently receive in response—is: “I’ve done the work and completed all the requirements.â€

 

That’s it, folks. When we do the work and complete the task, we’ve earned it. The Eagle rank isn’t “bestowed;†it’s earned. Let’s make it our solemn promise to honor every Eagle. He’s done the work, he’s earned it. Congratulations!"

 

- Andy McCommish, BSA National Advancement Advisory Panel

Hmm. My Scout Shop hasn't heard anything about inventory being limited. And as far as the online store goes, I find TONS of different neckerchiefs available!

 

The online store says these are all "in stock." No indication whatsoever of limited supplies:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa-neckerchief-with-universal-emblem-embroidery.html

 

Or you can get a customized neckerchief, again no indication of low quanitities:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/custom-neckerchiefs.html

 

If you have an Eagle coming up soon, get him an Eagle necker:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/eagle-scoutr-printed-neckerchief-new-size.html

 

It even comes embroidered if you want to be extra-fancy:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/eagle-scoutr-embroidered-neckerchief-new-size.html

 

Cub Scouts have the full set of neckers for every rank:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neck-tc.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/wolf-neckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bear-neckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/webelos-youth-neckerchief.html

 

Of course Cub Scout leaders have their own set to choose from:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/tiger-cub-leader-neckerchief-new-size.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/cub-scouttm-leader-neckerchief-new-size.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/webelos-leader-neckerchief.html

 

And there is a huge variety for adult leaders of every position:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neckerchief-international-adt.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/national-camping-school-neckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/national-camping-school-neckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neckerchief-commissioner.html

 

There are neckers for Scout Sunday and Sea Scouts, even full square options for the upcoming Jamboree!

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neck-sea-scout-triangular.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neck-scout-sun-orn-2016.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/nj17-neck-bandana-map.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/nj17-neck-bandana-survival.html

 

If you ask me, they aren't getting rid of the neckerchief any time soon. And there is another possibility that hasn't been considered - if they are in fact phasing these out, it could just as easily be to make room for more, new neckerchiefs that could take their place. If we're lucky, full squares too! I hardly think these are signs of the BSA getting rid of such a crucial part of the organizations uniform and history. 

These are nice! I would love one of these for sure.