Zaphod

I think people just have no idea how long things actually take and don't plan or practice them in advance to know any better.

A couple days ago my son was invited along with 17 other kids to talk to an astronaut on the International Space Station at our public library. We were told that we would have a 20 minute window in which the space station would be in range so timing was crucial. They had the kids practice ahead of time walking up to the mic, handing it off to the next person, and then exiting the platform quickly. All good. The day of the event, the person invited to open and introduce the astronaut rambled on for like 4 whole minutes with the astronaut just floating up there on screen listening and watching. Five kids did not get to ask their questions because time ran out. She had note cards and obviously planned her remarks ahead of time... but could not possibly have practiced them out loud and timed herself or she never would have gone on that long.  

I noticed that all the time in my grad school classes. People think a 5 minute presentation is soooo long, but once you get going it flies by. Almost no one ever gave "5 min" presentations in less than 10 minutes and some took 20 or more!

I concur with @@Beavah.  Why look for a rule?   Rules are no substitute for common sense.  Trust your good judgment but allow the scouts to develop their own camaraderie. 

 

Nothing worse that stifling initiative with red tape, real or imagined.

 

@@CalicoPenn, your point is well taken.  But, as an old vet (30 years active duty), I'll throw this out.   If offense is taken at the pirate garb, it probably won't come from the vets themselves.   Most would chuckle and make a few wise cracks.   Slightly eccentric behavior is an art form.   And the scouts aren't under military regulations.

 

That said, if you have reservations, just say "full scout uniform at flag ceremonies."   After dismissal, they can take the pirate bandanas out of their cargo pockets and reconfigure them on the way to chow. 

Another vet here and I concur -- I wouldn't take offense. Plus, from what I've read, the scout uniform is specifically not meant to emulate the military uniform. So the rules military members must observe during flag ceremonies should not be used as a guide. Taking off your hat when the flag passes by is a courtesy that is considered appropriate for everyone (in or out of uniform). So my only concern is that once the bandanna is removed (when the flag is being brought out) it is not quickly or easily put back on.

So if it's going to come off anyway and you are concerned it won't be considered respectful at the ceremony, then just take it off 5 minutes earlier. Otherwise, I don't see any problems with them wearing them during activities. At our last Camporee they did a knight theme and gave extra points if the boys donned a piece of armor during events. Kids all were wearing plastic breastplates, helmets, or carrying shields. How is this any different?

He's home and still alive! He had a good time and had lots of stories to tell. Some things he thought he'd hate (horseback riding) he loved. When asked if he wanted to do it again next year he said, "ummmm probably." lol   That's pretty good from him. 

Oh and he is doing his best to catch up with his missed electronics time today! Especially since their bus was 5 hours late picking them up yesterday and then had to make an extra stop putting him home at 9pm instead of 1pm. I'll give him today.... 

one lesson to be learned that piggybacks on your furry critter story...(@Zaphod)

I read an article some time ago, or was it on some documentary I watched... anyway

it talked about how when a person is taking pictures they are not "in the moment" and will tend to remember much less about the experience.  An example of a parent taking photos or video of a child's school performance was used.

Upon reflection, and backed up by my observations since that time, I can say that this idea is spot on!

Many times it is much better to forget the pictures, and just "participate" in the moment.

A good lesson we could guide the scouts to discover....

I agree with that! I am not really a picture/video person... other than taking close-ups of plants or wildlife I want to look up more about later. After I kayaked yesterday we took my 9 year old out on my dad's motorboat to teach him how to boogie board. He managed to get up on his knees the very first time and stayed on quite awhile! My dad wanted to film every second of it and since he was driving, I got stuck with the camera. For me, one picture is all it takes to remember the moment and then I can just watch and enjoy.... I can't imagine ever wanting to go back and watch that video! Unless he had fallen off spectacularly or something. But my parents do pore over those movies from my childhood and especially those of the grandkids, so I sigh and accommodate them. Maybe I will be thankful for them when I am old and the kids are spread out all over the country. 

But I have long regretted that my grandfathers passed away before passing on their knowledge of the outdoors to me (my father is not such a great teacher in that respect). I don't have any friends nearby into the outdoors so I am very thankful for the internet... and a phone that talks to me when I ask it questions (I don't even have to pick it up or look at it). But yes, it is tempting to lose focus and it can be a distraction, so everything in moderation, a time and a place, and all that. 

Speaking of... it's another lovely day and I need to put down this computer now that I am done with my work for the morning. Have a wonderful 4th of July weekend everyone!

I also love having the phone along to identify wildlife. I had a little bird book but it's at the bottom of the river after I dumped my kayak leaning over too far to pick up trash. My phone is still usable through it's waterproof pouch. Book... not so much! Plus I only need one little phone and I can look up birds, their eggs, animals, flowers, and fish and narrow searches down to my exact area. I can also listen to samples of bird calls. The more I go out on the river, the more curious I become about these things but forget exactly what I was seeing or hearing by the time I get home. 

Yesterday I was out kayaking by myself and saw a blue heron. I thought to myself, "Is that really a blue heron? Or is it a crane? How can I tell?" So I said, "Okay Google, what is the difference between a heron and a crane." Then Google told me and now I know. I think that made my outdoor experience better in the moment. 

On the other hand, I was paddling up a creek and got a text from my dad. It was not time sensitive but I took the time to reply anyway and dropped my paddle... NO just kidding! [Get it.... Up a creek without a.... okay sorry, bad joke, never mind]. But I did look up just in time to see a furry brown head disappear under the water. It was probably a muskrat, but maybe it was an otter. And if it was, I missed out because otters have become very rare in my neck of the woods. I wish I would have looked up sooner. So that was a lesson to me to put down the phone and be in the moment. 

Technology has it's uses but can definitely distract. I say let's mentor the boys and teach them exactly this sort of thing. 

For those of you who asked I am hoping "no news is good news." We'll be picking him up tomorrow and I'll report back after I talk to him. 

As far as tech use... yes, he loves electronics no doubt about it. But we have been camping at least once a year as a family since he could toddle. Electronics are always verboten on those trips so it's not his first experience with withdrawal. My real reason for bringing it up is my boy has a really heightened sense of fairness (perhaps all 11 year olds do?). Of course he is going to learn that life is not fair in the cruel, hard world, but having that lesson at camp compounded the homesickness. BUT (big but time).... I don't have all the details and only spoke to him on the second day. It's very possible his Troop-mates started sharing and that his leaders gave him a little screen time or that he forgot all about it by the next morning. I have no idea. At least he go to call us on his leader's phone. 

That Bryan on Scouting article was excellent, BTW and I agree 100% that we can definitely incorporate tech wisely into outdoor activities. Also his take on using this as an opportunity to teach Scout Law as it pertains to electronics and social media is brilliant. I loved that. Thanks @krikkitbot for sharing that.

I apologize to all if I have threadjacked this topic. I'll gladly delete my comments if requested.

 

OP, I still hope that your son has a good time at camp regardless. 

It seems like every conversation turns controversial at some point, so by all means follow those rabbit trails!

Besides, I have not been here that long, but long enough to know mentioning tech use at camp would not be completely benign....

I just realized there's a separate summer camp forum... this should probably be there. So many forums!

I would advise your son, to

• Tell him how to assemble a "wilderness kindle."
• Ask the SM if there's a counselor for reading MB.

There's a reading MB?! Well that will make him happy. He's covered as far as the wilderness Kindle though -- he brought about 1,500 pages of reading material and 3 mini-flashlights. I think his back-pack was heavier than him. He just has to figure out the old fashioned pleasure of hiding your light under your sleeping bag.

What are the other boys going to do when their batteries go dead?

I told him that... it would be a short lived pleasure. But he said there were places to charge things after all. I didn't quite understand how that worked but I didn't think it was wise to dwell on it....

My boy is NOT enjoying camp!  Tried to comfort him and told him to hang in there. Here's to hoping it gets better for him. 

His biggest complaint is a little frustrating though.... All the other boys have electronic devices that they use in bed at night. The paperwork and emails all said devices were strictly forbidden and phones would be kept by the SM for emergencies only. But I guess at a planning meeting before he crossed over the boys were told they could bring something that was only to be used before bed. 

My son always reads on his Kindle every night and wanted to bring it. Of course I said, "Sorry against the rules...." Guess I need to work on my mind reading skills. 

Set a new record yesterday, paid $50 for a t-shirt. 

They be like, "Oh, that Gucci - that's hella tight."

I'm like, "Yo - that's fifty dollars for a T-shirt."

So how long before we have a home schooled 8 year old eagle???? Brings us back to the argument for a minimum age for eagle

We had a large percentage of homeschoolers in our Pack and this caused issues sometimes. Grades are very fluid in homeschooling and parents sometimes think because their 6 year old is doing 3rd grade math and reading that makes them able to skip ahead. This is most common for Tigers when parents decide it's easier to skip to Wolf than have to attend every den meeting. I homeschool myself so I know it's very often the case that these kids are advanced for their grade level, but it doesn't automatically make them a good fit maturity-wise. Plus, homeschoolers often have very different motivations for joining Cubs than school parents. After being with their kids all day they want to give them a chance to learn from someone else, learn how to behave in a group setting, and socialize with other kids without their parents hanging around. 

We don't tell parents what to do with their kids but we put in a rule that these parents must be involved in some other way if their son is Tiger age (although they are used to that and generally don't mind helping out in other ways). Also we always explained the possible difficulties that might arise when joining Boy Scouts but that hasn't made anyone think twice yet.... 

Update: I didn't realize how old this thread was but the idea still applies!! Let parents decide!

Looks like that opened up waaaay after my time! If I ever make it back out that way, I'll check it out. I see there's a Macado's across the street from there now. I loved eating at the one in Radford... great sandwiches.

I went to school in Christiansburg. Love that area and the Blue Ridge Mountains! I am originally from the Midwest so being in such beautiful country for several years was wonderful.... I sure do miss it.

$20 is for the standard cotton Gildan variety... they are offering all kinds of other options but the prices only go up from there. Also kid sizes weren't even an option, only adult. My 11 year old still wears a youth M! That was another reason I decided to pass this time around. Makes me wonder though if they are only ordering exact amounts what they do for new troops when they ask that these shirts be worn at lots of events. Our Pack always kept some of every size on hand and re-ordered when common sizes ran out. This Troop orders new shirts every year and only for those that request one. So this will be a recurring problem. 

BTW... got an email tonight that they want us to buy another commemorative shirt for an anniversary celebration this weekend! Not buying that one either!  lol

So my son recently crossed over to Boy Scouts and I have to say we are experiencing a bit of sticker shock. But I can't bring myself to pay $20 for a class-B T-shirt. I have 4 boys so as a rule I don't pay more than $10 for a t-shirt. Plus, I was the one who designed and ordered our Cub Scout shirts so I know what's possible (I got very nice ones for only $8.50/ea locally). I think if you want to go above and beyond (multiple colors, print on both sides, etc.) you really ought to do a special fund-raiser so it stays affordable for all families. 

Am I being stingy? I am okay with getting reality checked. I just think families with one kid often don't think when making decisions like this. Granted, the shirts look great and maybe that's all anyone cares about.

What do you all generally charge/pay for t-shirts? Any suggestions for putting the responsibility for this decision back on the boys and teaching them to be more budget conscious in the future? I have only been there a month -- would be it overstepping my bounds to offer to price up a cheaper but similar alternative at the printer my Pack uses or should I hold my tongue until I have been around longer? (I hate to be that new parent that knows everything....)

I agree it lasts too long. 5th graders, who could be 12 years old, don't want to hang out with 1st graders, let alone Kindergartners who might start when they are 4, depending on when your school district's cut-off is. The most common reason I, as chairman, received for boys quitting is that "Scouting is for little kids." Adding Lions to the program will only exacerbate this problem.

I couldn't agree more! My son was really dragging his feet this last year about going to meetings and Pack events. He had always loved scouts so I couldn't figure out why. He did NOT want to join Boy Scouts but we convinced him to just give it a try. He went to one meeting and came out saying, "It's so much quieter than Cub Scouts!" Turns out scouting had just gotten too rambunctious and childish for him. We just didn't realize it because he didn't know how to articulate why he stopped liking it. 

We have a district scouter who makes a habit of getting judge-y with parents/adult volunteers if she thinks they are violating the scout oath/law even in personal matters. 

Personally, I am teaching my kids how to recognize bad rules and laws, make informed choices, and be prepared to face consequences (slowly as they are old enough to recognize these difficult concepts, of course). I think that lesson will serve them better than an obey-all-laws-without-question stance. I don't need some ASM or district rep getting all up in my business about Social Media and website TOS's. Plus I guarantee many of us have violated FB's TOS and not even realized it. Participated in that children's book exchange that went around last year? Use a cutesy name instead of your real name? Have more than one account (to keep work and home friends separate perhaps)?  All violations. 

While my kids don't have FB accounts they have Google+ accounts and I had to put in a credit card number and add 10 years to their ages to do it. I did it to preserve some blogs they had been keeping for years that Google cut us off from after my kids initially accepted their Google+ invitations. I explained to them the reasons behind the choice and thus began our introduction to the concept of bad rules, bad laws, and civil disobedience. That's some rich American history right there!

Ever see someone comment "the law is the law" when it comes to a law they support but then claim that we need to fight oppression/big government/discrimination/[insert issue here] when it comes to laws they don't like? Google "dumb laws" and I am sure you will find out all kinds of ways you are breaking the law and don't even know it. Bad rules/laws need to be questioned and sometimes disobeyed. None of you have to agree with that but Scouters have no business telling or judging parents for making different choices. 

We started using closed group Facebook as a tool to share pics and last minute event info. I wouldn't want to share pics of the kids along with event info. on a public page. I suppose a Scout could join this group, but it is not like we have to be FB friends for them to do it. If the kid sees our announcements and reminders and stuff then that's probably a good thing. 

Facebook is not perfect, but it's the best tool we have access to. Scoutlander is waaaaaay too slow with pics, file sharing software has space limitations (as I found out the hard way when another group completely hosed my Dropbox access by filling a shared folder up with tons of pics). Honestly, Facebook is where most of our parents already are anyway. I will say the the number of parents posting pics has gone up about 1,000% since switching to FB. And that sure is helpful come recruitment time or at events when we make posters or slide shows.

Now admittedly, I am more likely to post on FB than communicate some other way (e-mails are ALWAYS ignored and I don't make phone calls). I post links to local events, our pack flyers, or tips for new parents. My biggest pet peeve is the parents who refuse to use FB but feel entitled to access the information I post. 

For example last Feb I posted, "The kids will be painting center-pieces for B&G, remember to wear your Pack Ts". This information had been announced at the previous Pack meeting but I I thought a reminder would be helpful. After the meeting, I had a mom (an assistant den leader no less) yell at me for not reminding her some other way. 

Why do people think other people owe them something? I am really glad to have crossed over and be done with that for awhile!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( and yes I'm shouting at ya!   )

 

Seriously though, I did not go to summer camp my first year. I didn't find out about it until about a month before camp and couldn't' come up with the money. My peers who went had such a huge advantage on me when they came back, not only rank wise, but also acceptance-wise with the troop, That I eventually became discouraged and quit. Only by being reminded of some cousins' troop did I get back in.

That played a big factor in me sending my brand new scout. He joined a Troop of 12 boys and ALL 12 of them are going to camp! It's hard enough being new, but imagine being new and missing the biggest bonding experience of the year? I didn't want that for him so even though he is pensive about it, he is going. 

Unless the council has their own risk advisory the one reason for a youth or participant to bring along a HAB advisory would be if they were going to one of those HAB later on.   It will save a return trip to discuss the risks with the medical professional signing off and in the case of someone with medical limitations set them on a path to help them get there if needed.    

That's good advice... makes sense. My son is probably too young right now but best to get in the habit. Thanks.

I am working on this now too.... for regular boy scout camps (Ma-ka-ja-wan in WI), do we need to print and carry around the part D and/or bring it to the doctor's office? Thanks!

 

I don't claim to be the swiftest person around when it comes to things computeristic.

 

I went to myscouting.org

 

I clicked on Training Validation, which seemed like the place to go.

 

I got:

BSA Training Validation Training Search Youth Protection Training*

 

The only thing to do seemingly was "search."  So I searched by my oldest ID number.

 

I got: "The search criteria used did not return any person record.  Please modify the search criteria."

 

So I switch the search criteria to User Name and got a little box that sadi I finished YPT on a given date in 2016.  No other buttons to push - anywhere.

 

I did a Screen shot of the page. Council said that was not satisfactory proof of what It said.

 

It should not be hard.  There should be a big button; "Print out certificate of completion of training."

 

The Help Desk person at National said ti was easier to mail me a certificate than explain how I could print one out.

 

You are right, that is not the way to go. The certificate is not there. And the results you get are the ones that I got (a place that only verifies the date completed).

The problem is that the certificate is not at myscouting.org it is at my.scouting.org. See the extra period in there? Is that not the dumbest thing in the history of web addressing? If you start there then my instructions above will get you a certificate. I realize by now you have it... but now you can help someone else!