krikkitbot

I was visiting a troop recently and I heard the scoutmaster telling the scouts that they would be responsible for their own food if nobody signed up to cook at their next camp out. Several new scouts spoke up and said they would cook. The SM yelled at them and told them they were under no circumstances going to cook on their first camping trip. I'm glad I'm not part of that troop. 

It's a large event that will take about a year of planning to pull off. In previous years, it was put on by a club outside of scouting. They decided not to do it anymore and they offered it to our troop to take it over. Now it sounds like the DE wants other troops involved in the planning. They want registration to go through the council. And, of course, have the proceeds administered and distributed by the council 

I'm telling our committee to just pull it out of scouting. Run it as a club event open to scouts and the club will donate the proceeds to our troop. 

Well, maybe the panic of a few weeks ago was warranted. The same Scout DE is wanting this fundraiser that our troop has been planning to be run as a council event in which the council gets to "administer" the proceeds. 

I read it as 10 and completed AOL or 5th grade. Like Chisos said, fil out the app and let the council decide. However, I think the question becomes SHOULD.

Should a 9 year old join Boy Scouts? From my experience even most 10 year olds are not quite ready for Boy Scouts. They end up needing more handholding than there should be. So I would say that even though you could get by on a technicality, you wouldn't be doing the kid any favors. 

It's not a requirement to be First Class. You could ask the counselor which requirement lists a minimum rank and then you can quote the guide to advancement "No council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to, or subtract from, advancement requirements." 

Of course, that may start him off on the wrong foot with the counselor so it might be best to find a different counselor. 

I don't think people should get hung up on one word like "nobility".  It is not a word I generally use but I think we can all agree that the people mentioned in the original post - Bill Hillcourt and Joe Davis, though I had never heard of the latter before this thread - are worthy of admiration.

Agreed. I'd probably be a stammering fool if I were to meet E T Seton's grandaughter at Philmont.

To me, the nobility are the often unsung unit leaders or volunteers that never do wood badge or other such things. Rather they coach the kids over the decades, build a solid program and churn out solid, well trained young men.

 

The beads, knots, sashes and medals don't say near as much to me as this, but that's just me. Most true "Scouting nobility" we will never hear of.

I agree, to a point. Without the worker bees, there would be no honey but without the queen, there would be no hive. 

I am in awe whenever I meet or have a connection to the founders because without them, we wouldn't have this great program to offer to our youth.

I would probably also have my one hour a week back.

It would take a lot of those Benjamins because you would be committing to rebuilding the camp every time there is a really heavy rain and the floods wash pieces of the camp down the Delaware River.  I think the camp has basically been destroyed two or three times in recent years.

So why not have it as a primitive piece of property. Just some land where scouts can pitch tents and hang hammocks. Bring your own water and supplies.  

it pains me that Treasure Island, the birthplace of the OA is closed and up for sale. 

So what's the asking price? Could we get enough scouters to buy it and keep it open? I'm good for $100

I think that the scout law, along with most moral rules and regulations, should not be looked at one word at a time. It is the totality of the words that give it its impact. After all, it is the Scout Law, not the Scout Laws.

If your superior (SM, SPL, PL, etc.) tells you to haze a boy and you do, you were obedient but you were not courteous and kind. 

If you are told to steal from the trading post, you were obedient but not trustworthy and helpful.

I can think of scores of these combinations where following one point works, but it fails to meet others. 

I believe in scouting once something is signed, it is deemed completed. 

The plan was approved and signed off.

The completion was approved and signed off.

The lesson here, in my opinion, is for the adults to not sign documents if the requirements have not been met. You cannot punish the youth for the shortcomings of the adults. 

*** UPDATE ***

 

Our district has a forum and someone posted this issue there. The DE didn't know so they checked with national. According to the DE tour plans *are* going away....at least according to who she spoke with.

Well, there goes safety. It's going to be chaos, Jerry, CHAOS!

Thanks for following up with the people in charge.

Not having insurance is not a safety issue. It's a regulation issue. Having bald tires is a safety issue. I have filled out many a TAP and nowhere does it ask if the vehicles have had a safety inspection. 

The consequences of taking scouts on an outing without a TAP? I don't know, let's ask all of the people who have admitted on this thread that they never fill one out. Or what about the FAQ where it says that you are still covered by BSA insurance even if you fail to file a TAP?

Why wouldn't the national organization that runs Scouting be authorized to make a statement of any kind?

 

Because, again pure speculation, a replacement plan is not completed. Because lawyers said don't make an announcement until our new insurance policy takes effect on April 1st. Because business doesn't stop simply because the calendar says it's a day to play jokes on people.

It's all guesswork. Until the date comes, I'd say it's business as usual. As it stands, there is no "penalty" for failing to file a TAP. 

It's not a safety issue. Did you behave in a safe manner before this memo? Will you continue to behave in a safe manner after the memo? So where's the issue?

In my opinion, partials are up to the scout to manage/misplace. Their responsibility, not the troops' nor the scouters'. My eagle son, trying to get one more palm, recently dug through his room and found several partials that he started at his first summer camp and completed them. 

Onus is on the scouts (or the helicopter parents to nag their own kids).

Maybe it's not a fake memo. Maybe it leaked and National is not authorized to make an official statement until April 1st. 

This is just a guess.

How about we wait to pass judgement until April 3rd? If we have an activity planned over the next week just do as we have always done (which is either file a TAP or don't because some people never do anyway) and save the consternation until then?

Don't worry, these kids (and parents) are found out when they hit Boy Scouts.

 

The first thing we tell our new parents at our new parent orientation is, "You only have one more signature to give on your Scout's paperwork." We underscore the Instructors will help them on their trail to First Class. After that, they are on their own trail to Eagle. 

 

Mom and dad can sit back and help the troop, teach a MB class, be an ASM or TC member, but they won't sign off on ANY requirements ever again (unless they're an MBC).

 

Taking over at Webelos and working that through the DL is a GREAT idea!!!

What about the requirement to agree with parents on an amount to save and save that money? I tell parents that's the only requirement that they can sign. 

 

Advancement to First Class

What counts as camping?

On at least five of the six overnight campouts used toward First Class, the Scout must “spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect (such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee).

 

Camping Merit Badge

tSleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent

So by these definitions, my night in a tent that I pitched inside a (very posh) sports arena should count as a camping night, right?

Wrong

Maybe that's why SMs are given latitude in whom they nominate.They exercise judgement and trustworthiness.

I agree with what Joseph said. It is up to the discretion of the SM. The OA reps are not going to go through the records of each scout nominated. 

If I go into a unit to facilitate an election and the scoutmaster gives me a list of names, I'm not going to question how the nights were earned or if they did them in the course of 24 months or if it was 25 months. I'm going to trust the scoutmaster won't send someone who is used to glamping in the Hilton to spend a weekend sleeping without a tent and doing arduous work. 

With that being said, don't you sleep on the deck of carriers? If that's the case, I would definitely count it. 

I have spent the night in a tent inside a sports arena. I wouldn't count that myself but if you go by the definition, it is a night spent in a tent that I pitched.  

Ultimately I guess the fall back is the first point of the scout law. 

The club charters both the pack and the troop. The pack meets at the church, and they are aware. Never said a word.

 

A few months ago, we helped with a trash pickup. While we were there, lots of club members walking around with open containers, guns waving around, etc..... I was uncomfortable, so were the other leaders that were with. 

 

We were offered to fundraise during open shoots, but my leadership is concerned about the open containers at these events too.

I'm confused.

Were the people who were drinking waving guns around?

Were people, who were not drinking, waving guns around or were they wearing open carry and that made you uncomfortable?

Or were there some people drinking and some different people carrying guns? Were either of the activities illegal?

No, it was not their decision.

 

In addition to giving up their Boy Scout units, the KC's were also instructed to begin phasing out its own youth program, the Columbian Squires.

I wonder if that is a local decision. My sons were being heavily recruited for Columbian Squires last fall. 

Wow, if you take out toilet humor and violence/death you just about nix about half of the skits I've seen or performed. 

Mike, I gotta go wee... go wee... whee!

Flush it, plunge it, look out below!

Jump, Lady Jump! oops

Even with all the professional ministry and working with youth all my life, especially Scouts, I had an interesting epiphany just recently.  Since retiring I have upped my volunteerism and have taken on working with the American Red Cross.  My first national deployment I was lead on a crew doing Bulk Distribution, which means I drove a truck out into the neighborhoods and handed out food, water, supplies, clean up kits, and things of this sort.  When we handed out stuff we could tell there were many items going out that were going to be showing up on craigslist and Ebay by that evening.  But we were told to never question it, just hand it out, no questions asked. 

 

I was in one neighborhood and I handed out a full compliment of supplies to a young boy about 15 years old.  Within a few minutes he was back asking for another load.  I had to give it to him by ARC policy.  Sure enough he came back a third time, but this time I watched him.  He took it over to a house nearby and knocked on the door.  An elderly woman answered and he pointed to the stuff he had just put on her porch.  He was back again, this time going to another house, and back for more.  By the time I had emptied my truck I was on cloud nine.  If I had but one boy like this in my troop I'd be in heaven.  When I got back in my cab to drive back to the warehouse, a terrifying thought ran through my head.  "What if I had said no?"  I might be an old-fashioned stogie in my thinking and opinions cemented into place, but like W.C.Boyce's experience in London, I may never know his name, but it changed my way of thinking forever.  No is such a devastatingly destructive word.

Dang it Stosh! You just made my allergies act up. There must be a lot of pollen in the air because it's making my eyes water. 

When I'm driving in traffic with my family and I see someone driving like a maniac, switching lanes all over, driving on the shoulder, I tell my kids that we should give them the benefit of the doubt because we don't know if they are rushing to the hospital to visit a dying relative or have some other similar emergency. We can't see into people's hearts so it's best to give them the benefit of the doubt. 

I would think a Scout or Scouter from another country would be perfectly acceptable in their country's uniform, no matter where they are visiting.

I think the issue is not visiting but rather having become a scouter in the states after having earned their top rank in their country of origin. 

 70% of those who came left.

I'd hope that all left eventually. It's be difficult to explain to the host organization why a bunch of scouters moved in.

I like our RT. There are announcements about upcoming opportunities. Not all of which are listed on the council's home page. Troops and Crews show up and share information about open spots they have for various activities. There is training on a variety of subjects. The socializing with other scouters is invaluable. Of course, it's usually the same scouters showing up regularly with a sprinkling of new faces.