Prepared

Who is going to the National Pinewood Derby in Time Square? My son qualified to go and we will just happen to be passing by the day before, so we decided to stay and will be camping at the Alpine Scout Camp in NJ (was provided free of charge). Just wanted to see if anyone else is going.

So I just wanted to see what I could get with the wealth of knowledge here on the forums...

My son will be going to his first, and only, Cub Scout Resident Camp this summer. He is SUPER excited and just can't wait to go. I understand the living situation with the tents they provide. I understand the food situation. What I do not understand is how the program works.

Will it be like the family campouts where we meet up at Gilwell field for opening and flag ceremony, then are given a schedule that takes us from one activity to another for 45 mins of fun and learning? Or, will it be like they just have stations and you go to them as you want/need? Or, will it be longer times at the stations so the kids get the most out of it? Additionally, will they get to go back to a station, if they liked it more than something else they are doing?

Will there be free time?

Finally, what is the difference between the long and short option? We are doing the short option and I just wonder what will the people who stay for the longer one be doing that the Scouts who did the short option won't be doing.

Sorry for all the questions, I just REALLY hate going in blind to things and hope I can gain some insight before we go.

This is such an interesting topic for me, mainly because I am about to be in this situation. My son just started working on his AOL and will be out of the pack come February. I never intended to stay past the next year, but I do not want the pack to fall apart. I don't want the kids to start to hate Cub Scouts. I have a lot of issues with the current CC and the CO, but that does not mean I will abandon the kids. In my honest opinion, I do not understand why some leaders will not go, when they do not have kids in the pack. I understand MAYBE a year after their kids leave, but not for as long as my CC has been with the pack (her son is 17).

My plan is this (tell me what you all think)...my current Assistant Cubmaster will move to be the Tiger Leader (his youngest is coming into the pack as a Tiger, then he is moving his youngest when his oldest moves to the Troop with my son). From there I will find another Assistant and train them up on everything it takes to be a good Cubmaster. From there I will lead all meetings until the Blue and Gold is over. After that I will become the Assistant and the other will be the Cubmaster. I will expect them to plan/lead the rest of the pack meetings, with me helping of course. Finally, when the bridging ceremony happens, I will bridge as well.

Ok, well I will be putting together "training" for the Den Chiefs that choose to join us. The training will be the basics of our pack organization and the new stuff about the Cub Scout program. I will be putting together guidance to my leadership as to what the Den Chiefs are used for and why it is beneficial. I really hope I can get at least 2 Den Chiefs...4 would be perfect. Thanks for the help everyone.

I don't know where the 98% comes from but CS used to have monthly patches scouts just got for being at the pack meeting. Maybe that has changed.

 

Sadly, it looks like CS has added a bunch of patches that are "earned" by doing requirements. They used to only do that for Tigers with the Tiger beads. By time you reached Wolf you got BLs or pins if you did work, then your rank. That was basically it for most ranks.

 

I'm not sure I agree with more bling just for doing requirements that, in the past, were part of another patch. That would be like giving a Star Scout patches for completing his MBs, completing his POR, his service, etc.

Slightly confused here...what patches do the kids earn to get their rank? They earn belt loops from Tiger to Bear and pins for Webelos (4th and 5th grade), each representing something they did. They also can do (my pack is doing this) a lot of extra electives to get used to the different things before they get to Boy Scouts. One of the ones I am making my son do is the Castaway Adventure, where he has to learn how to live off the grid and what to do when he is lost.

I don't know where the 98% comes from but CS used to have monthly patches scouts just got for being at the pack meeting. Maybe that has changed.

If you take a look at the website I posted, you can see that the majority of the awards require the Scout to do something, except for like Journey to Excellence or other Unit awards like that.

 

Sadly, it looks like CS has added a bunch of patches that are "earned" by doing requirements. They used to only do that for Tigers with the Tiger beads. By time you reached Wolf you got BLs or pins if you did work, then your rank. That was basically it for most ranks.

There are awards that they have that tie into the requirements, but that does not give them the extra awards. They still have to do extra things to get the awards.

 

I'm not sure I agree with more bling just for doing requirements that, in the past, were part of another patch. That would be like giving a Star Scout patches for completing his MBs, completing his POR, his service, etc.

What awards are you referring to?

Then please tell me what awards at the Cub Scout level you consider "show-up=get".  Because otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about.

Like the Pinewood Derby Patch, Raingutter Regatta patch, Scout Sunday patch...things like that. 

Re-read what I wrote please. If the Scout is doing requirements, then the award is not a meaningless award. We were talking about show-up=get award type awards.

98% of the awards the scouts earn are not show up=get awards (from my list on the website I started the post with). They do actually have to do something to get it. The only show up=get one I like to get for the kids is the Wreaths Across America patch that isn't even a BSA patch, but we get it for the kids because it is really important that they do something like that (at least to me it is).

The idea of ceremonies seems like a good idea...until people just talk and talk and talk. I am not one for talking (unless I am talking about football) I have shortened all of my Pack's ceremonies and made them more meaningful. From what I could tell the kids seemed to enjoy them a lot more. The graduation ceremonies I believe are meant to be a way to acknowledge accomplishments of the kids who do them, but turns into a talking fest in a cramped/hot place and the kids just want to go home for the summer and be done with elementary school.

Agreed. Shooting sports patch sounds like he has to earn it.

He does, I like the new program. It is more in depth than the last belt loop and my son really wants to do it, so he will earn the awards.

 

Showing for the day and getting a patch, not so much. We have far too much of that in Cubs. Thankfully not so much of that in Boy Scouts...yet.

Yeah I do not really care about those patches...only thing they are good for are to put on Cubby...lol

I am embarrassed by the bling on some adult (boy) scouters...there seems almost a relationship by the number of patches crammed on the tan shirt and the proximity to the Council power structure. Conversely the SM with a length of rope on his belt loop often indicates a guy who really interacts with his Scouts.

 

I'd love to see a correlation on patches and wood badgers. 

Heh...I am a WB and I have zero patches...only thing I have are the ones I have to wear...However, I do know a WB who is all about the bling....I really do not understand why they have all of that stuff. They even wear a campaign cover...my thing though is that people put a bad name on those who have knots and awards on their uniforms. In reality, it is not the awards that make the person a bling chaser, it is what they really do with the pack/troop/whatever that counts. I see what people wear and I know those who ACTUALLY do things.

So your own posts proves the point that the patch is meaningless. It took a verbal cue to remind the boys of their fond memory. The PATCH didn't do it, the verbal reminder did! So why the patch? If the patch is supposed to be an "immediate gratification and recognition" it is NOT doing its job because the boys had no clue why they got it.

 

MBs are not meaningless if the Scout is the one driven to take the class. As for the other 130+ badges, they usually have requirements around them and are not just awarded for showing up.

 

Camporee and Jambo patches? Other non-requirement based patches? Totally agree...no place in Boy Scouts EXCEPT as a reminder of the event and NOT as any real achievement.

 

Adult awards? I saw do away with them.

 The patch is something to recognize hard work (for the most part) I do not make a big deal when the Scouts get a patch for attending an overnighter at the local museum or aquarium, I will however make a big deal when I award the Scouts their Messengers of Peace award because they do a ton of work along those requirements. I will mention the things they did and how it affects everyone, it will be up to the parents to impress the full extent of what they did

David,

 

In scouting, I've found that in situations like this, the adults are just reassuring themselves. 

 

The scouts are okay and remarkably balanced, as long as they are having fun.   The scouters and the parents put much more stock in the cheap handouts.   The scouts see right through it.

 

Plus, it's an adult ego thing.   "Look at the grand gesture I made."

I don't use the awards as you state. I use it as a goal to make and to work towards. It sets a goal for Scouts to do. Doing the minimal thing in Scouts is not the way. They should always strive to do more. As I stated above, my son will earn his shooting patch and pins, this is because he earned them. I do know that sometimes people use them to give them out for "completing" the requirements. I give them for things they Scouts did, especially my son. I push him towards things that I think are worth while. I want to have him earn his Outdoor Ethics Action Award. This is not because I want him to earn the award, but because it will teach him something and lets him know when he is done.

Beyond ranks, merit badges and other awards which they earn, what "reassurance" in the form of awards are you advocating?

Just the typical things like for instance...I am taking my son to Summer resident camp so he can earn his Shooting patch and pins. This is a two fold thing. One, he has fun and two, he learns something important about weapons safety and responsibility. What I mean by saying sometimes they need reassurance sometimes is that it is a goal for kids to work towards, not a coddling mechanism as others put it. When I want something I work for it. My point is that it should be used to teach Scouts to work for something and not just give it to them for the sake of giving it to them.

We old grey-beards say "Good job"; it suffices.

..heh yeah sometimes though kids get a little discouraged and need a little reassurance that they are doing something right. plus it gives them as goal to work towards and can achieve them.

I thought the new program was supposed to be better.....

I am not sure how the old WB program was, but I enjoyed my program now. The staff were incredible and very knowledgeable in the workings of what was being taught. I had some experience in leadership in the past, but it was military leadership...in the Marines....which is way different than being a leader of Scouts and their volunteer parents. Just my 2 cents on that

In my area they "suggest" your goals for tickets. [wink, wink]

No one, that I know of, was given a suggestion for their tickets or goals. They do not tell us what to do for our ticket, only how to word it so we are not stuck and cannot finish it. My ticket is about ensuring Cub Scouts are prepared as much as possible to transition to Boy Scouts and not be so overwhelmed by the change in how leadership works and how to be a leader themselves. The only suggestion I was given was to not say I would get 3 Den Chiefs for my pack, only that I would develop guidance for my Den Leaders and develop Pack training for the Den Chiefs to ensure they understand how our Pack operates. This was because I cannot control Boy Scouts or Venturers volunteering to be Den Chiefs, which is a valid point.

Probably was one of his goals for his tickets. You see a lot of projects like this done in the name of WB ticket completion.

It was just a patrol project. I would not do this for a ticket goal. My ticket has more meaning than this...

Are we limiting to official BSA non-rank awards? For example, there are tons of historic trail awards you can get that are not official BSA awards.

This was kind of the point to why we (my patrol) chose this project. It is very unclear as to what Scouts can earn. I noticed that some "awards" said that they cannot wear them on their uniform and some didn't say they could not. I believe that if they meet the requirements then they can do it.

Sorry, I am not seeing the value in another website. IMO, most scouts/scouters search for awards by topic not by credit/advancement or they "just do it" without asking for an award.

 

I award you one no-prize with apologies to Stan Lee.

The value was that sometimes a kid needs a little recognition for what they do. This allows leaders to see what levels can earn what and how to quickly get to the information to ensure the Scout is recognized for an achievement of some kind.

Serious question from a non-WBer:  

 

What was the point of the assigned project?   Though I appreciate the hard work that went into the research and page building, frankly it seems like a big homework drill.  

 

The criteria for all these awards can be found in current BSA literature.   A search engine can find them quickly. 

This was our Patrol Project that can be used to benefit everyone within our council. I believe it was a way to use what were learning there to work together while we were away to present to the Troop. It kind of was a homework drill, but we all chose something that we wanted to know more about anyway (at least our Troop did).

We knew it could be found in BSA literature, but it was difficult to figure out who was allowed to earn it. Although a Google search can find it, we felt as though it would show those that are not as well known. How do you know what to Google if you don't know it exists.

I guess I would have titled it "Unusual Awards and Recognition."

 

Most awards are a form of advancement, even if they don't confer rank.

 

That said, it's a handy list. Thanks for the effort.

It is true that a good majority of awards can be used for rank in the Boy Scouts and above, but at the Cub Scout level, it does not. The rank requirements to lend themselves to being apart of the non-advancement awards, but they do not help the Scout earn the rank they are working on.

  Just had an out-of-box experience.... Why are WB instructors telling WB participants what their projects are to be?   Have patrol projects been dictated by the instructors?  Is this something new or just something I missed?  I also noticed the "we" in the conversation, I don't remember the "we" part of training.  When the course was over, we as a patrol did not receive the beads, individually we all needed to finish the ticket.

They really only told us to do for our council organizations; Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity, and Venturing. After that it was just on our own and how we decided to do it. We just had to make sure we didn't do the same thing as another patrol. The we part was the patrol for the patrol project due on the second weekend. This was not for our tickets.

 

WB is a learning process, it might be good to learn the correct processes for awards and ranks in Scouting rather than creating any confusing re-definitions, and use WB as an opportunity to teach it correctly.  Just my bias, I guess.

I have only ever heard the Tiger, Wolf, Bear, and Webelos as ranks. They are also sold as "rank badge". Where is it that they are not ranks? Just because a Scout is a Wolf Scout does not mean they automatically get the Wolf rank badge. They have to earn the rank.

 

And there are different sign languages for the different languages, too.  The strip says Signing, not American Sign Language.  Learning the sign alphabet will get you into French, German, Italian, Spanish, but is going to be a problem with Greek and Russian and it all goes out the window with Chinese and Japanese.  Scouting is a world-wide movement.  A scout is going to look pretty foolish at a World Jamboree with "Signing" on his shirt.  That's an area of the uniform that everyone is going to look first.

It actually does say American Sign Language...http://www.scoutstuff.org/interpreter-strips.html

Why did your instructors say to omit BSA's second oldest program?  Sorry, but any website that omits Sea Scouts is incomplete. Sea Scouts in the USA is 104 years old this year older than the OA.

I believe it is because our council does not have Sea Scouts, so they did it for what we had in our area. Not really sure though.

First of all, all Cub Scout, what people often call "rank" is really an award.  Lion, Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos, and AOL.  I thought it rather strange that AOL was under Boy Scouts and not Cub Scouts.  Keep it in mind, the site is non-advancement awards, Lion, Tiger, etc. are indicators of age only, not any effort on the part of the individual scout.  During 2nd grade one is a Wolf Scout regardless of whether he has earned the award or not.  It could be a great opportunity to educate people with the site as well.  ALL bling in Cub Scouts is non-advancement awards because they advance by age only. 

Well we consider the "ranks" as ranks, which is why they were excluded from this project. There was actually another patrol who did advancement awards and they included the rank adventures for the Scouts.

 

After a cursory glance through the awards without really thinking about them, it is also interesting to note that there is listed interpreter strip and Morse Code interpreter strip.  If it is because Morse Code is a code and reads in any language, maybe signing should be added as well.

The Morse Code strip was on its own because it is a separate thing from the Interpreter Strip. American Sign Language is actually a part of the Interpreter Strip languages.

 

There is also a glaring omission of Sea Scouts on the website.  They have both rank and awards as well.

We thought about doing the Sea Scouts, but were told to just do Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity, and Venturing.

 

Hope this helps.

It did thank you, I thought about adding to the website and keep it up to date as best as I can. I will probably add Sea Scouts and even Adult awards....we will see if I get a chance to do it.