robert12
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Posts posted by robert12
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1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:
I wonder if the sales become mandatory going forward (like Girl Scout Cookies).
That is essentially what is says. Read it like this: "The Charter Organization agrees to" "actively participate in the local councils annual giving campaign and product sales to ensure quality Scouting throughout the community. (ex. Friends of Scouting campaign, popcorn, camp card, etc.)"
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I went 25 years ago, and it was great. Back then while we got to ride horses, we carried less gear than hikers and there was lots of work pack and unpacking everything and quite a bit of time was spent tending to the horses. We were able to bring horn bags, and they were really nice to have.
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From the Baptist Press
Boy Scouts bankruptcy could leave churches liable in future sex abuse claims
"Churches who chartered or have ever hosted a Boy Scouts of America (BSA) troop should seek legal counsel now in case they are named in future sex abuse claims against the BSA, a Southern Baptist legal representative told Baptist Press."
https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/boy-scouts-bankruptcy-could-leave-churches-liable-in-future-sex-abuse-claims/-
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Here is the Unit Money Earning Application, point 7 states "At no time are units permitted to solicit contributions for unit programs". I have always held the position that grants should not be considered soliciting funds as the are saying "we have money, fill out this application and we might give you some". I doubt your council will see it the same way.
Also, your money is your money, you do not have to give the council a 1¢.
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It would appear that some these changes go against what is laid out the in the "RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA"
QuoteIII. LOCAL COUNCILS
District Organization For the purpose of unit service and program administration, a local council may be divided geographically or functionally into such districts as the local council executive board may determine. Districts must operate pursuant to the Bylaws, Rules and Regulations, policies, and guidelines of the Boy Scouts of America. Their purpose is to make effective in the territory the policies and programs adopted by the local council, its executive board, and council committees. The administration of Scouting in each district will be exercised by the local council through a district Key 3, committee, and commissioner staff. The district committee, the operating committees of the district, and the district commissioner staff have no legislative authority.
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/Rules_and_Regulations_June_2018.pdf
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This sounds like the changes that the Northern Star Council has implemented.
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On 1/2/2020 at 9:50 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:
When Venturing came out in August 1998, it was never about advancement, it had recognitions. Do the professionals at Nationalhave any experience in Venturing?
I remember have an email conversation with a high up in venturing from the national office on why there was an advancement criteria on the crew JTE scorecard at the time, when advancement is not a method of venturing. I basically got "it is what it is, we think venturers should be advancing"
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2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:
IMHO, these Council letters raise more questions about how much and where local money goes.
Here is a council charter renewal form. filestore.scouting.org/filestore/mission/pdf/523-027_WEB.pdf
In short a council pays an annual National Service Fee of 3.5% of the total of the salaries of the professional and office staff, though some councils could pay closer to 4%.
There is also a national charter fee of $1,000. This fee is waived if the form is submitted on time.
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The two people to contact would be your council's president, though your SE could have been the one to basically put him in this position, and the Area Director that your SE reports to, this is a BSA national position.
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First a bit of background. -I am an Eagle Scout and I have served as a district advancement chair where I approved Eagle Projects and as well as chaired EBORs, and I currently am a EBOR member for my district and serve on our councils advancement committee. I have reviewed dozens of Eagle projects either on the front end as a district approver or on the back end as a EBOR member. I have seen some really good projects and some that were "eh" at best.
I was having a conversation with a fellow leader and his wife about the quality of some of the Eagle projects of late out of our district. I gave them the hypothetical example of a project involving planting a handful of flowers at the base of a flag pole at a volunteer fire department. I told them this would be an acceptable project if a few conditions were met:
- The candidate gave leadership to two individuals, one scout dug the holes and the other one planted the flowers.
- Flowers had never been planted at the fire department, so it would not be viewed as routine maintenance
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It passes the five tests laid out in the G2A during the approval process:
- The project provides sufficient opportunity to meet the requirement.
- The project appears to be feasible.
- Safety issues will be addressed.
- Action steps for further detailed planning are included.
- The young man is on the right track with a reasonable chance for a positive experience
When you think of an Eagle project this is not what you would normally think of, but with the current rules in the G2A and the Eagle Project Workbook this would have to be an acceptable project.
How do you get more out of Eagle projects yet stay within the guidelines that we have to follow? I think one key is with the unit appovers, they need to be urging scouts to do more. But what is "enough" and how do you define that without crossing any of the aforementioned guideline?
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Per section 9.0.1.3 of the Guide to Advancement:
- References: Must list all six (five if not employed). If not affiliated with an organized religion, then the parent or guardian provides this reference.
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3 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:
Actually, the OA was founded in 1915, thus celebrating it's 100th anniversary 3 years ago. I have been a member for half of that time.
Agreed, it was founded in 1915 but it did not become a full Boy Scout program until 1948. From oa-bsa.org/about/history,
QuoteBy 1948, the OA, recognized as the BSA's national brotherhood of honor campers, became an official part of the Boy Scouts of America.
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My background is I am an Eagle Scout and obtained Brotherhood membership in the OA as a youth. I have not been very active in the lodge as an adult but keep my dues paid. At the unit level I have served as an ASM and troop committee member, for the district I have served in several positions including district commissioner and district program chair, and at the council level I served on the very first venturing committee in our council. I currently serve as a district religious emblems coordinator and a member of the council advancement committee.
I do not have any children in the program, though I do have a 6 year old daughter in American Heritage Girls, and to be fully transparent I am also the troop coordinator of our AHG troop. A troop coordinator in AHG is sort of a cross between a BSA committee chair and a scoutmaster or cubmaster, though I delegate most of the program duties in our troop to the vice coordinator.
Let me start with the OA changes, these are the simplest for me. The OA was originally organized in 1948 as the Boy Scouts national brotherhood of honor campers (Boy Scouts as in the program, not the BSA corporate organization). In 1998 the OA became Scouting’s National Honor Society and became separate from the Boy Scout program. As the OA is no longer part of the Boy Scout program and is now Scouting’s National Honor Society I have no problem allowing in Venturers and Sea Scouts as youth members. I wish they would allow Venturing Gold Award recipients be eligible as for election, while not many there are some out there who did not pursue the new awards program. And if the Boy Scout, or "Scouts, BSA", program is going to admit girls I have no problem with them being eligible for election.
As for girls in the program, this is where it gets a bit complicated for me, and a bit deeper than just girls in the program. I believe the BSA is losing its focus.
In 1916 the federal charter of the BSA became law, and here is the purpose it lists for the BSA:
QuoteThe purpose of this corporation shall be to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods which are now in common use by Boy Scouts.
Contrast that with the mission statement of the BSA:
QuoteThe mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.
They are no where close to each other, when I envision how the BSA should be ran, I see the former.
The stated purpose is boy focused. Allowing girls in to what I consider the "secondary program" of Venturing and Sea Scouts does not really hinder this focus. But to allow girls in the two premier programs of the organization, I am just afraid the BSA will lose it's focus on boys.
How long can the organization drift away from its legal purpose as outlined in its federal charter before its no longer what it was designed to be?
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22 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:
Not to be too picky here in the happy aftermath of the project approval, but an Eagle project is not a troop function.
Actually Eagle projects are considered troop activities, this changed either with the initial release of the Guide to Advancement in 2011 or with one of its revisions.
This is from the 2017 revision:Quote9.0.2.14 Risk Management and Eagle Scout Service Projects
All Eagle Scout service projects constitute official Scouting activity and thus are subject to Boy Scouts of America policies and procedures. Projects are considered part of a unit’s program and are treated as such with regard to policies, procedures, and requirements regarding Youth Protection, two-deep leadership, etc.
Unit leadership should be aware of project plans and schedules. The health and safety of those working on Eagle projects must be integrated into project execution. Since an Eagle Scout service project is a unit activity, unit adult leadership has the same responsibility to assure safety in conducting a project as with any other unit activity. The unit leader or unit committee should reject proposals for inherently unsafe projects. The candidate should plan for safe execution, but it must be understood that minors cannot and must not be held responsible for safety concerns. As with any Scouting activity, the Guide to Safe Scouting applies. The “Sweet 16 of BSA Safety” must also be consulted as an appropriate planning tool. It can be found online at “Scouting Safely,” www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/Sweet16.-
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Just to give an update, the SM had a discussion with the scout and turns out the initial information he received was not quite accurate, the SM has no issues on how the project was carried out and signed off on the project as complete. The SM now understands that Eagle projects are troop functions and should there should be coordination between the scout and the troop.
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Is the Varsity program dead? Both the youth and adult applications as well as the BSA's program site now make no reference to Varsity.
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406.pdf
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The SM is planning on having a discussion with the young man and his parents to get there take as the SM only has second hand information. He was told by several scouts that were there that the scout was just a helper and his parents did all of the leading, and the scout had not met the beneficiary until after the project was complete.
For the project itself it was a good project, they build several library boxes and installed them in the community. The SM has no problem with the scout earning Eagle, he just wants to make sure the requirements are completed as stated, nothing more, nothing less.
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8 minutes ago, Stosh said:
If BSA were to ever get it's act together they could produce a number of training sessions by using videos. The boring classroom parts could all be one for free over the internet and maybe the hands-on parts could meet for half the time at less expense. Participant booklets and reference guides could be printed off over the internet for those that want them
People would be more apt to take the training if they could do it for free at a time most convenient to their schedules. That ain't happening now and then there's all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes into why people aren't trained.
Other organizations are doing this, why is BSA such a Johnny-come-lately? Answer that question and you'll get better results with training of the volunteers.
They already have this, IMO they just do a good job of promoting it. There is a ton of material, just not being promoted well.
If you go to my.scouting.org and click on My Dashboard, then My Training, and finally on Training Center you will be given Training Courses by Program. Clicking on the program levels you will be given a list of available training. Clicking on the trainings will take you to the BSA Learning Center. Here is what's available, in addition to YPT:
Cub Scouts:
Boy Scouts:
Venturing:
Sea Scouts:
Exploring:
Other:
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There is a scout in my district who his SM feels did not satisfactorily complete the eagle project, no leadership demonstrated. The SM still needs to speak with the scout, but let's assume he does not sign the application, and he informs the scout properly of the Eagle Board of Review Under Disputed Circumstances procedures in which the scout initiates. And now let's say the EBOR-UDC agrees with the SM and denies the scout and all appeals go against the scout. So here's the question, can the scout do another project and have another EBOR?
The reason I ask this is item 10 of section 8.0.3.0 of the G2A states "An Eagle candidate may have only one board of review (though it may be adjourned and reconvened). Subsequent action falls under the appeals process."
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From the G2A,
7.0.4.8 Unofficial Worksheets and Learning Aids
Worksheets and other materials that may be of assistance in earning merit badges are available from a variety of places including unofficial sources on the Internet and even troop libraries. Use of these aids is permissible as long as the materials can be correlated with the current requirements that Scouts must fulfill. Completing “worksheets†may suffice where a requirement calls for something in writing, but this would not work for a requirement where the Scout must discuss, tell, show, or demonstrate, etc. Note that Scouts shall not be required to use these learning aids in order to complete a merit badge.-
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There seems to be a growing list of things that do NOT have to be done before the 18th birthday. At the time my son made Eagle about 8 years ago the council was insisting that the application had to be in before the 18th birthday. From what I have read elsewhere in this forum they can't do that anymore. Now the Eagle project workbook can be signed after the birthday. I hope that somewhere there is a clear list of what does and does not have to be done before the birthday.
Here is the list that shows what has to be completed by the scouts 18th birthday, if it's not on the list then it can be completed afterwards.
9.0.1.1 Complete All the Requirements
Confirm that the following requirements have been completed before the 18th birthday: active participation, Scout spirit, merit badges, position of responsibility, service project, and unit leader conference. Note that the unit leader (Scoutmaster) conference need not be the last item accomplished. The board of review may be conducted after the 18th birthday. For details, see “Boards of Review,†8.0.0.0. A candidate must be registered through the time he is completing requirements but need not be registered thereafter or when his board of review is conducted.
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The 2017 revision of the Guide to Advancement has been released.
No real big changes, other than the separation of Sea Scouts from Venturing, the most welcome changes/clarifications in my mind:
4.2.3.1: Added clarifcation that a Scout must be given credit for active participation time even if a unit takes time off during the summer or any other time of the year
4.2.3.4.3: Added clarifcation that the Scout must be given credit for time served in a position of responsibility even if a unit takes time off during the summer or any other time of the year.
8.0.0.2: Added clarifcation that a board of review cannot be denied or postponed due to nonrequirement reasons such as uniforming or delinquent dues payments.
8.0.3.2: Added clarifcation that a Scout and his parents or guardians must be informed of the right to a board of review under disputed circumstances.
8.0.1.0: Added clarifcation that board members should recuse themselves if they cannot be fair and impartial.
9.0.2.8: Added that signatures on a Scout’s service project report need not be dated before his 18th birthday.
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Let me reformat the list after the forum software upgrade:
#1 - Air Scouting/Air Exploring ACE Award Knot
#2 - Explorer Silver Award Knot, used for * Explorer/Air Explorer Silver Award * Explorer Achievement Award * Explorer G.O.L.D. Award * Explorer Scout Ranger Award (when its unique knot was dropped early on) * Air Scout/Air Explorer Ace Award (again, when its unique knot was dropped early on)
#3 Arrow of Light Knot
#4 - Silver World Award Knot
#5 - Scoutmaster Award of Merit Knot (also used as or known as) * Varsity Scout Coach Award of Merit * Venturing Advisor Award of Merit * NESA Outstanding Scoutmaster
#6 - Eagle Scout Knot
#7 - Cubmaster Award Knot
#8 - William D. Boyce New-Unit Organizer Award Knot
#9 - Tiger Cub Den Leader Knot
#10 - Pack Trainer Award Knot
#11 - Scouters Key Award Knot
#12 - Silver Beaver Award Knot (Also used for the Silver Fawn Award)
#13 Scouters Training Award Knot
#14 - International Scouter Award
#15 - "Youth" Religious Award Knot
#16 - Distinguished Commissioner Service Award
#17 - Cub Scouter Award Knot
#18 - Community Organization Award Knot
#19 - William T. Hornaday Award Knot
#20 - Heroism Award Knot
#21 - George Meaney AFL-CIO Award Knot
#22 - Professional Scouter Training Award Knot (Also known as the Professional Circle or Fellowship Honor Knot)
#23 - Medal of Merit Knot
#24 - Honor Medal Knot (also with Crossed Palms (Very Rare))
#25 - District Award of Merit Knot
#26 - Cub Scout Den Leader Award Knot, now known as Den Leader Award Knot
#27 - Venturing Silver Award Knot
#28 - Silver Antelope Knot
#29 - Silver Buffalo Knot
#30 - Vale La Pena Award Knot (or Premio por Servicio ScoutingVale la Pena! Service Award Knot)
#31 - Asian American Spirit of Scouting Award Knot
#32 - William H. Spurgeon Award Knot
#33 - Adult religious award Knot
#34 - Sea Badge Award Knot (Participant 1 trident, Staff 2 Tridents, Course Director 3 Tridents)
#35 - Quartermaster Award Knot #36 - James West Award Knot
#37 - Webelos Den Leader Award Knot
#38 - OA Distinguished service Award Knot
#39 - Whitney Young Service Award Knot #40 - Venturing Leadership Award Knot
#41 - Explorer Scout Ranger Award Knot #42 Den Leader Coach Award Knot
#43 Skippers Key Award Knot
#44 Antarctica Award Knot (Not sure if that was ever official though)
#45 - Eagles Scout Knot (NESA Lifetime Member)
#46 - Speaker Bank Award Knot
#47 - Philmont Training Center Master Track AwardKnot
#48 - Doctorate of Commissioner Science Award Knot
#49 - Unit Leader Award Knot
#50 - Commissioners Award of Excellence Knot
#51 - Alumni Award Red
#52 - Scouting Service Award
Citizenship in Society "Soft Release"; Diversity, Equity, Inclusion Repackaged?
in Issues & Politics
Posted
It's the rename of the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Merit Badge.