Scouter915

I get the dilemma. Shoot' date=' it isn't really a dilemma. it is wrong. I didn't understand why someone ostensibly came here for guidance when they clearly knew what they wanted to do, then spent 6 pages arguing their position. [/quote']

 

This is a scouting forum...I was seeking advice as to how to approach the situation since it was a scouting environment in which it happened. You are darn right I already knew it was wrong...I didn't come here for that validation.

 

The 6 pages of posts in regards to the initial post were for your viewing pleasure...​​

I got a response. Scout leader says the movie was obtained by someone who completed a survey for a movie screening. Sounds questionable, but I didn't question it further...Scout leader also stated that he had concerns too, but put them aside when he saw the amount of kids that would not see the movie on account of movies being so expensive for low income families. I advised of being careful even in this circumstance...to do what is ethically right when given the opportunity. Scout leader agreed...said it won't go down like that again.

Conversation was friendly, ended well...all is good.

Below is the message that I sent one of the scout leaders and former pack leader. I am waiting for a reply.

Hey -------. I have a question about the scout lock in a few weeks ago. I don't want to come across as being a jerk and I certainly do not want to make waves. It's about the movie that was shown (Big Hero 6) and how it was obtained given that it was still in theaters at the time...I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble or anything, but I want to know if the copy that was used for the showing was "illegally" used, burned, or downloaded from some kind of torrent site online. Like I said, I don't want to get anyone in trouble...If the movie was an illegal copy, I just want my concern heard that it might not be a good idea for future scout practices. I know the kids enjoyed it and the lock in was a great success so this is something that the kids don't need to know. If I'm completely wrong please accept my apologies. Maybe you can put my mind at rest on this...I was a victim of illegal downloads on LimeWire a few years ago and I lost an estimated $50,000 dollars before they were finally shut down so it's kinda a sore spot for me. Let me know your thoughts...

Next week the troops are going to Wal Mart to steal a piece of gum...(because it's really not that big of a deal right...?). There are worse things going on in the world right?

Well, I'm not a lawyer, not even an armchair lawyer, so I won't attempt to get into a discussion of the relative severity of this alleged transgression from a legal perspective.

 

I'll re-phrase my point: how do you want to be perceived by your fellow volunteers in this organization? And what are you really hoping to accomplish here?

Adult volunteers should abide by the law. This is Cub Scouts...These parents are not volunteering for the local carnival. They are volunteering for an organization that is founded on principals of honesty.

I personally don't care what the other volunteers think...As far as what I hope to accomplish...? What do you mean? You might be the type to let "small" crime slide, but not me...I hope to speak with the decision maker about this and gently let them know of my feelings. If all goes well, no harm will be done and hopefully something like this will not happen again.

Got your point dS15. Don't make trouble. No point in nit-picking over ethics, unless you are willing to contribute your own activity that taps the scouts' creativity and imagination.

 

(BTW, couscous no substitute for hummus. Tahini, maybe, but not couscous.)

I help out quite often. My facility (home and wooded acreage is used for hiking and campfires and such for the troop). I'm also an educator (teacher at the middle school) and donate a lot of my time to various social and sporting activities for the community.

Just to play devil's advocate... Lets imagine for a second you're on the other side of this situation. (This is purely hypothetical, I have no knowledge of this particular situation, I'm merely offering this as a "walk in the other guy's shoes" moment).

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I thinks there would be an ignorance to not know that it's a violation of some sorts...If Big Hero 6 is playing at the local multiplex and charging $8 per ticket, $6 for popcorn, $4 for a large drink...Why would anyone think it's ok to play it for FREE at the local armory to a group of Cub Scouts...It should have raised a red flag for the cub master or any of the den leaders.

I know there are bigger problems in the world...even in our community. I certainly would not report this offense to the authorities or even threaten to do so. At most, I would "reveal" the possible ramifications of getting caught to the scout leaders. I don't want to make waves...I want to do whats best for my kid though. I'm not sure I'd be doing the right thing if I didn't at least say something...I don't want to be a bystander or sit on the sidelines while ethical judgment calls are being made wrongly. I'm not perfect either, but I would expect the same to me if I were doing something that's morally, ethically, or legally wrong.

Once again I am surprised by the "Devils's Advocate" posts about this. I'm not sure if it's a justification for some or the plain fact that some people will go to great lengths to convince themselves that "it's no big deal..." or "it's not that bad...". Shocking really...some people might need to check the magnet in their moral compass to make sure it's functioning properly...

 

Big Hero 6 has not been released to DVD/Blu ray yet. What you say is easy to say if you aren't part of the movie industry (I am not). People's livelihoods are harmed by pirating videos.

Yes...and people are harmed by pirated and illegally downloading mp3 music. I know...I'm a musician and have dealt with this myself. I've probably lost somewhere near $50,000 + from illegal downloading of my songs...

So, this digital pirating thing hits home for me...

Scouter915' date=' you say this occurred recently. How recently? More to the point, was it on (or after) January 20? (If you read Fehler's post, above, you will see why I ask.) On a possibly related note, have you asked the event leader about this yet?[/quote']

 

It was prior to Jan 20th and I believe you know good and well the hoops one would have to jump through to get a special permission from a major studio to show a current theatrical release to a dozen cub scouts at the local armory...

 

I asked 2 den leaders about the movie and they are pointing the finger at the head pack master for supplying the movie. I have not talked to him yet...I'm not sure I need to play Sherlock Holmes any further on this. I think the answer to my questions are there...

I don't see this as any different than going a couple miles per hour over the posted speed limit......but that's just me. I'm about as far from Hollywood as one can get. lol

I watched the movie "Gone Girl" the other night on DVD. Prior to the movie starting, there was a copyright disclaimer that said illegal pirating of the DVD is punishable up to 5 years in prison and up to $100,000 fine if caught.

Going a couple miles over the speed limit gets you a warning if caught. No fine, no prison time...

Hardly the same...

To me, there is no justification for this...especially in a scout setting. Nobody's perfect, but I'm hearing some downright scary stuff on here in regards to examples being set by scout leaders in regards to what is right and wrong and which laws should and can be ignored. By the way, is there a chapter in the scout book on this? If so, I missed it...

I still see no confirmation of any illegal activity here' date=' just a lot of supposition and guesswork. .[/quote']

 

Really???

 

If it had been a rented video from the local Blockbuster I would not have had a problem...This is a movie still in the theater and there is only one way to get a movie like that prior to it being officially released to the public and that is to knowingly download or get a copy of an illegally downloaded version. The crime itself is punishable up to 5 years with huge $$$$ fines. That's if you get caught though and most studios are not going to seek out a local scout troop for a violation. Still doesn't make it right...

I think the extent of what I would do would be to let the scout leaders know of my disapproval of the action. Not sure if I want to pull my kid out or move packs...haven't made that decision yet. I guess it depends on their reaction to my voicing my opinion of the matter. If its "hey, it's no big deal, just a movie...get over it" type response, I'll yank him immediately. If its "we are sorry, didn't realize the crime, it won't happen again, thanks for bringing it to our attention..." I will probably leave him in the pack.

Thank you S915. I vote for your interpretation' date=' but I go with Pack's approach, and Tahawk's expectation.....[/quote']

 

I agree with the approach as well...No sense going in with guns a blazing!

That's not the example I want to set...

I'm sure the line is drawn in different places for different people but I seem to have come to the wrong place in regards to finding ethical advice regarding this situation. Any illegal activity that is punishable by huge $$ fines if caught aught to be a red flag for any scout leader in my book. The act of going to a torrent site, knowing it's illegal, downloading a new release movie as a bootleg copy, burning it to a blank disc, and then showing it to a group of kids while wearing badges of honor is not very honorable. And...not the type of community I want my kid to hang with...

"Good citizenship also means obeying the law..." - from Cub Scout Values

My thoughts are that there is so much trouble in the world that we cannot avoid' date=' to me it doesn't make sense to go looking for more..[/quote']

 

I'm a little surprised by your thoughts...however I'm not looking for trouble. This is Cub Scouts...I'm not sure I like the idea of the leaders approving this move. Copyright violation may not seem like much for some, but this movie is still in theaters. There is no way they received theater rights to show the movie as that would have been expensive.

 

I'm not the type to be confrontational about something like this...I'll just ask the pack leader and see what's up.

 

 

 

My son attended a scout lock-in at the local armory recently. While there, there were many great scouting activities and fun games for the kids. My issue is that they showed a movie to all kids that I believe was illegally copied since it's not out on video or DVD yet...I doubt the kids know, but I do and it's bothered me to some extent. I'm not sure if I want to pursue a course of action or let it go...My initial thought was to talk to the pack leader or whoever's in charge and let them know my feelings on the matter.

The movie in question was Big Hero 6. It's currently in theaters...

Any thoughts...??