BSA24

>>>>

My great fear is that you might voice this balderdash near some poor little fellow who looks to you as an example of what it's like to be a good citizen.

The patch is made from all recycled materials by child slave labor in a Chinese re-education center outside of Shanghai.

If only I were joking...

>>>

The system actually works quite well to respond to child prostitution IF the mandated reporters do their effin' jobs (including Planned Parenthood, which has its own agenda that prevents helping kids) and IF people have enough of a backbone to help a child who is being regularly physically and sexually abused.

>>> What is so hard for you to understand about this? If a child is being raped, you REMOVE THAT CHILD FROM DANGER. NOW.

BadenP,

BSA sees scouting as church in the outdoors. There goal is to moralize to youth by any means necessary.

I see scouting as outdoor, survival, first aid training and experience with a code of honor for the organization.

I think those two diverging views are the key to BSA's apparent self-destructive behavior on all counts. It's why they are under political attack, it is why the program has a chess merit badge, and etc.

If you read the old handbooks from the 40's and earlier, you read about an organization with a code of honor which teaches a man to be rugged, self-reliant, and outdoors capable. BSA has moved farther and farther away from being a paramilitary organization, and that's what the problem is.

They need to move back in the other direction.

Horizon,

I'm probably a lot older than you, so I'm not surprised that many on here would give me a 21st Century lecture on how all violence is wrong.

I was raised in the 1960's when kids still got into fist fights and the teacher broke it up and no one was punished. Teachers in school spanked children with wood fraternity paddles. Going to the principal's office meant a paddling was coming. Your teacher could slap your smart mouth right off your face in the middle of class and then send you up to the office for more paddling.

I think we were better back then than we are today. People are soft and weak now. Their feelings get hurt over spotted owls.

Today, I understand that if a child is slapped in public iphones come out and videos start up, the police are called by all in witness, and probably social workers and a news crew will show up to remedy the situation. I find that absurd and a sign of our country's downward spiral.

Yes, in most regards I am pretty liberal, but I cross to the other extreme on this issue. I believe parents laying hands to children for punishment is not only effective, but necessary.

I do not teach that to scout leaders or scouts. Today it is illegal and younger families are horrified and start recording video with their iphones and call in grief counselors when a child is yelled at.

But I lived with my generation and now yours, and mine was better. We had less crime, less drugs, fewer gangs, and more poverty and a worse economy plus the 1960's were going on. But times were better. We were a better country, people were safer, and in school, there were none of these stupid problems with gangs.

It's funny to watch this young generation try to figure out what is wrong with society, why you have 10% of our population locked up (people your age and younger) while you all insist that spanking is wrong. That's what's wrong, you dummies. You took away the option for teachers and parents to put a stop to bad behavior and knock the chip off of the shoulder of an arrogant youth.

My parents spanked me. I am thankful for it. My parents also hugged and kissed me. They did not wail in agony and guilt at any point. I did something really bad, and out came the belt. I am a better man for it. We were a better country for it.

This is a clear case of Hollywood dictating an unsuccessful liberal approach to life that our country has swallowed and accepted. It is now taboo to do your job as an adult with children who misbehave.

Show me all of the good results with youth that have come from this new policy of not using corporal punishment. Show me the downward trend in youth problems. Show me how our nation is better right now.

You can't. The data go the other direction. We old farts handed you a country that had lots of problems, and you've fixed a lot of them and have achieved some incredible things. But this is one thing that was not broken, and you messed it up and let your own internal rationalization of weakness get in the way of doing your job.

Extra scout socks

Extra uniform shirt

Nice leather belt http://www.newcreationleathercraft.com/boy_scouts.htm

A campaign hat

Some really nice hiking boots

A nice backpack

A top of the line thermarest pad

A top of the line down sleeping bag

A leatherman wave multitool

1000' of paracord

A red wool scout jack-shirt (ebay has them all the time)

Make him a really nice hiking stick.

A sterling silver eagle medal from yonder days on ebay for him to receive one day in the future (do this anyway and stash it)

There is a lot of black and white thinking going on in this thread - an attempt to reduce complex situations down to easily solvable moralisms of right and wrong. But real people are complex, and real problems are not quickly solvable.

Planned Parenthood, facing the prostituted 13 year old, is not going to report it, because then prostitution rings would no longer use their services. Instead, pregnant 13 year old prostitutes would receive "home abortions" from their pimps, and die.

The lesser of two evils is what real decision making often looks like. Take a black and white moral stand today, and tomorrow you don't get any opportunity to help anyone and more people die and suffer than would have.

You know this already, though. If your neighbor does something jerky, and you call the cops, you have just declared war on your neighbor. You now have a guy next door to you who is around your house when you are not and no longer have his good will. We all understand that going to the cops on your neighbor is the nuclear option, and that even if he is dealing drugs, you might end up in more trouble later by adhering to the rules a little too closely.

Did you ever "take names" for the teacher in school? I remember one time a kid doing that and actually writing down the names of those who made any noise. They were punished. After school, that guy was beaten up by those he ratted out.

Teaching right and wrong to youth needs to be coupled with teaching them politics and an understanding of protecting the safety of their families. It should never be a black and white lesson in reductionism. Life is not simple. Life is complicated. Boys giving simple moral codes suffer in life as they realize they are ill-equipped to make tough decisions that require deep consideration.

Eamon - I disagree with your position on corporal punishment. My mother slapped me across the face for smart mouthing her once. I think it was the right thing to do. I would never consider that child abuse. I also applaud parents who spank, although chasing a kid with his pants around his ankles through a campsite with a belt is not acceptable, if the dad just grabbed his son by the arm and hand-spanked him a few times, I would just snicker that the boy learned a lesson about messing with dad. I would not remove them or give them any warnings about proper behavior at camp.

I think one of the problems with folks under 30 these days is that they were not spanked enough. They are demanding and spoiled. "Mellenials" they call them. They expect their mom and dad to solve everything. They think they can say whatever they want without consequences. They think they are to be catered to.

Yeah, I'm OK with the neighbor spanking my kids. I'm OK with the teacher popping them on the wrist with a ruler. I'm ok with an open hand slap to a child's face for profanity.

I understand this hurts some people's feelings and they view it as excessive violence and abuse of children. I do not. I view it as necessary and correct.

I support the same amongst adults. If you get physical with my wife, I will punch your lights out. I don't think I should go to jail or pay your bills. I think your actions should absolve me, and I should be able to tell the police you touched my wife so I knocked your teeth out, and they should nod and say, "Got what you deserved." to you and leave.

While I don't agree with everything in the rural area I live in, being the county's only liberal, I do agree with our local culture of tough love and traditional popping of children for bad behavior.

It's only abuse when there is no good reason for it or it goes beyond the open hand, imo.

I would never physically handle another person's child to punish them, of course, because even where I live the legal climate for that is intolerance. But if that were to become acceptable, I would be comfortable with living in that world.

It's the world we had for thousands of years until the 1980's, and now the US has the largest prison population of any country on earth - 25% of all prisoners are in the US. Why is that? Could it be that the US has stopped punishing children until its time to send them to jail?

(This message has been edited by bsa24)

Who is a posthumous award supposed to make happy? The guy is dead? I guess for those of you who believe our consciousness continues after death and we could attend our own funeral as a ghost, maybe you think this is a good idea. I don't personally believe that and find the concept creepy as heck. Anyone ever see Patrick Swayze on SNL doing the ghost skit?

He watches his wife pick her nose, scratch her butt, and perform other gross private-time actions because no one is around and is disgusted. It's pretty hilarious and highlights just how silly it is to believe that invisible people are at their own funeral.

So, the award must be for those left behind. Is it for the family? They probably don't want an award from the scouts. What are you doing, giving them a medal that says, "Congratulations on the death of your husband/father?"

I agree with the others. Establish an award for others in his name. Give it annually. Put up his picture on an easel at the front of the room, get a nice plaque, and some money for college through donations and set up a scholarship for a deserving scout each year.

That way his memory will continue to help youth.

Allow his family to give the award instead of you.(This message has been edited by bsa24)

SPL did the right thing.

Troop leader did the wrong thing in teaching the SPL to focus on denying the positions instead of problem solving WIN-WIN for everyone's benefit.

Should have directed the boy to a local cub scout pack to serve as a den chief. That position can be used all the way through eagle. And it is highly needed since most cub scout leaders are not old boy scouts.

Once you see a beautiful woman wearing a scout uniform, then and only then will you realize just what a really terribly ugly uniform BSA is selling us. The fact that so many scout leaders are fat sort of hides the fact since everything a really heavy person wears will hang from them like a tent. But get someone who is in excellent shape in a uniform and you'll realize the uniform is making them look worse than they would in just about anything else.

Look at any US Marine in any of their uniforms and compare. Get yourself a US Marine khaki shirt and put it on. You'll be shocked at the fit of it compared to a scout shirt.

I have no problem with traditional uniforms, but ours are proportioned very badly.

I'd like to see the scouts mimic the military uniforms. A shirt for summer, an outer jacket for the other three seasons. Separate outdoor gear from dress uniform.

Actions speak louder than words. Whatever people do - that is what the thing in question is about. People shop, buy things, give presents, travel, and decorate their homes. They do more of that than anything else.

The people have voted with their actions. That's what Christmas is about.

It doesn't matter what you think it ***should*** be about or ***is supposed*** to be about. That's just your preference. Apparently the country prefers otherwise. Game over.

> I doubt that BSA authorizes anyone to change the design of a knot or badge or medal or whatever and sell it.

The more I read this forum the more disgusted with BSA I become. Is there anyone in Irving, TX that can pass an IQ test?

> needing your leader apps and rechartering paperwork signed by the old district DE.

That's not correct. Anyone in the council exec's staff can sign these. It varies from council to council how they are organized. The DE has a boss. He can sign it. The people at the council office can usually sign it. The CE can sign it.

As for eagle projects, the council can approve them without you even speaking to the district. I've turned in completed eagle work without even notifying the district. Council takes it, stamps it, and it is approved and sent to national with no district involvement.

Your district advancement committee is a paper tiger. You don't have to do anything they say or work with them at all. They have zero authority. If the council gives you any grief about the eagle award, a letter to national will result in instant approval and completion of the award. National doesn't fight over eagle badges. I have seen them approve one for a boy 18 1/2 years old just because he couldn't get his butt in gear. The district and council both denied it. National approved it.

You really can just tell the district to go toss it and not interact with them ever again with no consequences.(This message has been edited by bsa24)

> Both liberals and conservatives have abused the power of the courts

No they haven't. It is not possible to abuse the power of the courts. The courts exist to interpret the law. They simply function like machines doing their work. It is what they were intended for.

There is no abuse or activist court problem in this country. Never has been. It is a make-believe problem that political pundits point to in order to scare people. The people serving on courts are smarter than most Americans, certainly better educated, and are exercising their jobs within a legal framework of checks and balances.

If you don't like their decisions, there are ways to overturn them built into the Constitution. The fact that no one supports overturning them is what the real griping is about.

> You might want to consider the concept represented by the term LUG --- Lesbian Until Graduation.

Thank you for today's weather report, Chicken Little.

Note that in other scouting association where gays are allowed, which is ALL OF THEM, none of this has occurred. Those countries have no homo takeover going on, young men have not been "recruited", and all conservative's paranoid fears have never been realized.

The evidence shows that nothing will happen.

>>>

- Hang files will be at your "official" district roundtable. The hang files will get your ...

----- Your rechartering packet

----- Your FOS packet

----- Your event fliers

Anyone can post a petition. I have posted a a petition that we build a large spacecraft and put all of the world's cats in it and send it to the sun. Anyone can sign the petitions. At 25,000 signatures, the white house will issue a PR statement about the petition.

In this case, they will say, "This is a stupid petition put here by someone with a sense of humor."

If you are a very experienced leader, you will never need help from the district. Any help a DE, commish, or committee person might offer is probably not going to be helpful. It's just going to be nagging.

The biggest help a district leader can provide is when there is internal unit conflict. A very experienced leader in a pack or troop generally eliminates this because the others do not see them as an equal and they heed their direction and advice. Units blow up when no one is in there that is a long time scout/scouter.

And it isn't like district leaders are trained negotiators, arbitrators, or mediators. Usually they are like a cashier at home depot or something like that. If you are a professional doing scout volunteering at night, and you call in the district for help, you're either going to be yelling or walking away shaking your head later.

District leaders are impressive to newbies, peers to the intermediates, and inferior to going it alone for the advanced.(This message has been edited by bsa24)

> States should stand against collectivist driven federal overreach.

They did. They lost.

There was a civil war which they lost. Then there were innumerable court cases which they lost. The US is an entity now not a collection of them. Has been that way for over 100 years.

There is no such thing as being a "member" of a district. Districts are geographic sales territories of district execs who raise funds through membership drives, popcorn, and friends of scouting campaigns. The district committee is there to appoint people to offer training, chair events, etc. The commissioners are there these days to help you recharter (membership).

You can totally ignore your district. You don't need to officially switch. Your district is just something offered to you as a unit leader. If you don't like it, and your fellow leaders agree that the district leaders are dorks, then simply ignore their communications, cease attending their events, and stop supporting them entirely. There will be no consequences.

If you like another district's events, go there. You will not get support from their commissioner staff or committee, but if you are an experienced unit leader, you will not miss it and may find this situation enjoyable.

What can I say? I'm slow. I was raised a conservative, and it took a long time for me to go through the process of realizing I don't agree with them any longer.

>>>>>>>

The problem with homosexual "marriage" (eh, similar to an "married bachelor" in terms of logic)is that it is deeply destructive of genuine marriage

I voted for Obama. I vote for the party with the most positions that align with my own preferences for how our country is run. I do not vote my own pocketbook, and I do not vote based on events during the campaign like verbal gaffs or uncovered information about the candidates.

I agree with the dems on

* unions

* entitlement spending

* health care

* military spending cuts

* gay marriage

* energy

* education

* foreign policy

* federal regulation

* abortion

* secular nation

* affirmative action

* progressive taxes

I don't agree with them 100%. I agree with the repubs on

* gun control

* the death penalty

* jobs creation

* national language

I think they have both failed us in some key areas:

* Lobbying needs to be stopped

* Privatization of the prison system should be reversed

* Legalization of drugs (in favor)

* Illegal immigration (someone just do something please)

* Reducing wasteful government pork barrel spending

* Lowering barriers for third and fourth parties to get involved

* Reducing the % of the population currently incarcerated

I would vote for just about anyone who came out with a majority of my hot button issues on their side. I don't care what party they are from. The republicans can only win back the white house at this point if the democrats have a major scandal on the level of Bill Clinton's Lewinskigate. I don't think there is any platform change they are capable of that makes them relevant to anyone outside the Bible Belt. They've branded themselves the white christian gun lobbyist party filled with bigots with thick southern accents who want all of us to end up greeters at wal-mart or soldiers.

In the past, I voted for Ford, Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Perot, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain, and now Obama.

Times change. Opinions change.

What really drove me to the left was Fox News. It wasn't until it arrived and started the outrageous nonsense they spew that I was driven to re-examine my own beliefs and start listening to people on the left. Fox News, more than anything else, made me a democrat. Rush Limbaugh helped a lot, too. I didn't realize how much I didn't want to be like him until I listened to him for a few years.

It is a mandate for nothing.

That said, you cannot operate a successful national program based on citizenship that fully half of the citizens of the country feel is a force for evil. It's too much bad publicity.