chrisg478

naw, just have one of your Unit Key-3 log into my.scouting.org and mark them "trained".  No DE involvement.

Or get your district training chair to do it.

I love working with the kids, especially the Cubs. They get so excited about things that adults take for granted and they always want to learn more.

Most of my run-ins with parents come when I try to enforce the rules or even just common courtesy.

Like -

Kicking a kid off the archery range because he would not listen to directions (he had shot archery before so he knew it all) and he pointed a bow, arrow nocked, string drawn, at another child (his sister).

According to his mother he was just fooling around and would never have actually shot his sister.

My response was accidents happen, we don't "fool around" on the archery range, and it's MY RANGE. I am the range master, I make the rules, I get to decide who is allowed on the range, I am responsible for the safety of everyone on the range and your son must leave the range.  

She reported me to the camp director who informed her that it was MY RANGE, I make the rules, I get to decide who is allowed on the range, I am responsible for the safety of everyone on the range, and if I felt her son should leave the range then that's what should happen. She wasn't very happy with me or the camp director that day.    

Same day -

I am in the latrine (one hole) and a man walks in with his 2 kids (boy & girl). I said excuse me, could you all please wait outside?

When I was finished and went out the man proceeded to yell at me because his son got a glimpse of my rear end sitting on the toilet.

I replied that he should not have removed the "occupied" sign from the doorway (attached to a chain drawn across the doorway) and just barged in on me with his kids.

His reply - "How was I supposed to know that's what that sign meant".

I just walked away, shaking my head.

I have heard, and over the years I have found, that the best volunteers & leaders are the busiest people.

We all work for a living. We all have family members to care for, homes to maintain and tons of other responsibilities.

The difference between good Scout Leaders and the "I don't have time" crowd is that good Scout Leaders MAKE THE TIME.

The "I don't have time crowd" will never know the great things they are missing.

.

^{My pack and troop are lucky enough to have their own "scout house" behind the CO's building (local Moose Lodge) but we are one of the few in our area that have our own space.}

^{There are pro's and con's to having your own space -}

^{Pro - you can have meetings whenever you want}

^{Con - you end up having den meetings in a building with no heat in 20 degree weather because you didn't budget for a new furnace this year.}

^{Pro - I can store equipment, supplies and materials at the scout house instead of in my house/shed/garage.}

^{Con - Other people "borrow" my equipment, supplies and materials and don't take care of them or replace them.}

^{Pro - Everybody enjoys using the scout house for all types of activities.}

^{Con - Nobody wants to help with general clean up and maintenance like taking out the trash and mowing the grass.}

^{We also have the added benefit and problem of 2 separate units sharing the same space. When the troop and pack are both strong with good leaders it works out great. But if one (usually the troop) feels that the other (usually the pack) isn't doing their fair share to help maintain the building or pay the bills it gets really ugly really fast.}

_{So how did you convince your District to do this?}

_{On our District Committee -}

_{We have a new DE, fresh out of college, this is his first "real" job, and he doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground.}

_{We have a new District Chairman who is following the clueless DE because he doesn't know any better.}

_{And we have a recycled District Commissioner (2nd time as Dist. Com) who can not wait until her term is up on June 30th so she can get away from the other 2.}

_{There are also a bunch of names on a piece of paper that says they are all members at large. In the 8 years I have been on the committee I have never met most of these people.}

_{And then there is me on the verge of calling it quits.}

_{Any suggestions on where I go from here?}

~~My fear is that another awesome professional scouter and friend will loose his job because of the unrealistic expectations of our council leadership.- - - I hate it when I am right. The only part I was wrong about was my friend quit before they could find a reason to kick him out. At least he got to leave more or less on his terms.

~~My dream is that our local council leadership will remember that this a volunteer run organization and the professional scouters job is to support the volunteers. - - - If the first 2 months of the year are any indication, council will never get it right. Less support for volunteers and events run by "professional" scouters that only care about the numbers (dollars, people, etc.) seems to be the wave of the future around here.

~~I look forward to "cutting back" on Scouting in 2015. - - - The sooner the better, I can't wait for it to be over. I turned my training team over to the new coordinator 4 months early. Only 2 training events left and then I am out of here.

In my area most Chartering Organizations don't know they sponsor 1 or more units and the unit leaders don't know who their Chartering Organization is or who their COR might be. How can we support each other if we don't know who we are and don't speak to each other?

A sad example - Last year our DE was having problems getting a units charter processed because he could not find someone to be the COR or IH and sign the paperwork. He said he was going to go park outside the Chartering Organization (a VFW) on Friday night and he would get the first drunk that stumbled out to be the COR and sign the paperwork. Of course he was joking (it's a really bad joke) but it says a lot about the relationships between the units and the Organizations that sponsor them.

And I know it sounds obvious that you have to make yourself visible if you don't want to be invisible. But that is what it boils down to.

A better story - There is a pack in a small town near where I live. A few years ago (5 or 6) they had about 6 scouts and 2 or 3 leaders that were trying to keep the pack running. They wanted the pack to grow, they wanted to teach their kids to be involved in their community, and they wanted the community to know about their Pack. They started doing service projects for the church they meet at. Things like food drives, clothing drives, raking leaves, etc. They also participated in community events like the Christmas parade, the local spring festival and Veterans Day Events. Most pack events were publicized in some way - local newspaper, facebook, twitter, church bulletins etc.

The next year, for the first time in a long time the school let the pack hold a recruiting night at the school and passed out flyers inviting all the boys to attend. The pack grew a little bit. They continued doing service projects and more organizations from their community would contact them and ask for help. They helped the school with the spring carnival. They held a community flag retirement ceremony on Veterans Day. And they continued to publicize as many events as possible. Over the next few years they grew and participated in more service projects and community events.

This pack now has roughly 50 kids with enough adults that they have at least 1 den leader for every den, a CM and an assistant, as well as a full committee. This pack does thousands of service hours for all different types of organizations all year around. They have the full support of the local schools and many churches in town. Last year the Pack received the Governor's Award for Community Service from their state Governor. This year a local restaurant donated a full pasta meal, with salad and dessert, for over 200 people, to the pack for their Blue and Gold Banquet.

As a result of "being seen" the pack is now reaping the benefits of having the support of their local community. It was not easy. I know most of the leaders from this pack and they are very dedicated people. And I personally witnessed how hard they worked to get where they are today. But I am sure they would tell you that it has all been worth it to see the great things that can happen when local communities come together to help and support the people,

Getting back to the original topic, I have some other suggestions on how to promote scouting -

1. Become active partners with your chartered organization. Do service projects for them. Do they have a newsletter, bulletin or other publication you could get an article or picture in. Have the SPL, SM or CM go to an appropriate meeting and give a "state of the Troop or Pack" report once a year. Thank the organizations leaders (pastor, board of directors, etc.) for their support.

2. Get your unit involved in your community. Do service projects (long & short term) for other organizations. Participate in community events. Once people see you doing things they will ask you to do more.

3. If your CO is a church, see if the boys can "serve" as ushers, ministers, cantors or other positions in the church. Is there a children's service or Sunday school program your scouts could help with? A youth group they could partner with. Are there church events where the boys could lend a helping hand? Have them wear their uniform (field or activity) to these events as often as possible.

IMHO scouting has become "invisible" because we have let it become that way. We participate in Scouting activities but most of the time those things happen far away from the public eye. If you want to be seen, you have to do things when and where people can see you. You have to make people pay attention to you.

And if all people ever hear is the negative things then we only have ourselves to blame for not sharing the good things scouting does.

I am not ashamed to be a Scouter and I tell other people about the good side of scouting all the time. Yes the membership issue can be a touchy subject for some people. The couple of times I have been asked about it my response has been that National sets the policy and my opinion doesn't really matter. If they still want my opinion I tell them that there is no place in scouting for any type of sexual behavior, period. I believe it is none of my business if someone is straight or gay or whatever. When I recruit leaders their sexuality has nothing to do with the qualities I am interested in.

When the politics and BS from my District and/or Council outweigh the FUN. Which is happening now.

They (council) are firing and/or forcing out all of my friends (volunteers & professionals) as I write this.

I can see where this is headed and I am taking the high road out rather than waiting for them to beat me down and drag me through the mud.

So much for the Scout Oath and Law.

And the funniest part of all is the Council Training Chair just asked me if I was interested in taking over his job in the fall.

I guess he missed the memo.

Mark,

Since this topic was started several years ago I am sure things have changed including that e-mail address. Rodney Scout Reservation has a facebook page and the e-mail address is rsr@dmvc.org. I am sure if you contact the camp director either by e-mail or facebook he will be able to help you. .

A suggestion -

Why don't you show the YPT training video to all the parents before going on your next pack overnighter? Your District Training Chair should be able to help you locate a DVD copy and/or run the training for you.

I have several units in my district that do this training with all the parents that are going to summer camp with the pack/troop.

They feel it is helpful for all the adults to know the rules ahead of time.

Our local council camps have separate bathrooms/showers for youth males, adult males and females. We also have latrines (no shower) in most of the campsites. Most of our Cub Scout events or summer camps only last 2-3 days so most people don't bother with a shower. And in the summer most of the kids will say they don't need another shower because they had to walk through a shower to get into the pool.

We do our best to get people to follow the rules about adults in the adult bathrooms, youth in the youth bathrooms but we are not fanatics about it. All females use the same bathrooms anyway. Younger siblings and a lot of the younger cubs go into the adult restrooms with their parents. I know there are parents that take their kids in the adult showers with them. But that makes it the parents responsibility to watch their kid and keep them safe. If we can keep the adult males out of the youth male bathrooms that is a success.

In your case, as long as people are respecting other people's privacy, and parents are being responsible for their own children, I wouldn't get too stressed out about it.

Around here the LDS units are just another unit. They do things thier way but we don't treat them any different. When my son was a Cub Scout he went to Day Camp, District events and Webelos Woods beside kids from the LDS unit. I attended basic Cub Leader training, PowWow and even Wood Badge with the Leaders of the LDS unit. Our District holds roundtable at the LDS church and we also have used it for other events. Our local LDS unit has always been very involved in the OA and their leaders help with training events and activities.

The only real differences are they leave camp Saturday night, they don't attend our summer camps, do FOS presentations or sell popcorn. The only thing we discuss changing in regard to LDS units is to offer special IOLS trainings just for LDS members. That usually gets shot down and it is up to each training team how to best accommodate LDS members who say they can't stay overnight on Saturday.

5 miles for me. I think the farthest any unit in my district has to travel is 30-40 miles. But it doesn't matter. Round Table is a complete waste of time.

Thanks Faith and good luck with your training as well. Training is my main scouting job so I feel comfortable putting a program together as long as I can find enough information to offer a quality program.

My problem is this course has to be hands on learning. So while the power point has a lot of good information it is not really a hands on learning experience. I know there are sample den meeting guides and sample adventures from the new books and that is probably what we are going to end up using, but I was hoping for more by now. It just seems like a lot more work than it should be.

I get that message as well. Usually if I sign out and log back in I don't get the message again for awhile.

Bigger than district level but smaller than council level. This event would be very much like what most people know as Pow Wow. Here we call it Cub College and our council holds 3 of them every year. One up north (covers 3 districts), one down south (covers 3 districts) and one in what they think is the middle of the council (covers 2 districts).

So at the southern Cub College in March there will be classes like Derby Days, Pack Fundraising and Let's go Camping. But since the new Cub Program is starting in June and people are asking for more information we thought we would offer some classes that focus on that.

The problem is I am not having a lot of luck getting any more information than what is on Nationals "program updates" site. The original plan was to get the new Den Leader specific training manuals and develop our program from that. But now I have been told that those materials won't be out until March and that is too late.

Another huge road block has been a lack of support from our council and the districts for this. Most of the council and district leaders (professionals and volunteers) feel that we don't need to offer any extra help to the Cub Leaders during this transition period. Most of them feel we should wait until August or September to start talking about the new program if we do anything at all.

On the other hand I have more and more unit leaders asking questions about the new program all the time. The first thing they want to know is if we will be offering any training or anything to help them figure this out.

So I am working with a couple other volunteers and 1 professional scouter to gather as much information as we can about the new program from any place we can find it. We know about the Webinars and we know there is information coming out for use at Roundtables that we intend to use. We have all studied the program updates on the national web site. The professional scouter is supposed to be working on seeing what materials and/or resources he might be able to get that volunteers can't get yet.

Hopefully in a month or so we will have enough information to offer a hands on, fun and informative program for Pack Leaders at the end of March.

I will be. I need ideas for a Cub Scout Leader Training event (similar to Pow Wow or U of Scouting) in March. We want a couple of sessions to really focus on the new program so I need to find out all I can.

Our pack was short on Den Leaders this year so we have been using "shared leadership" to run den meetings. So for example when the Tigers signed up last fall each parent was told they would have to "help" by taking turns hosting den meetings. The Cubmaster planned and hosted the first den meeting to show parents how it was done. Then each family signed up to do 1 of the next 6 den meetings (6 boys in the den). Each parent was given the den meeting plan for the meeting they signed up for and told they were responsible for the entire meeting. The Cubmaster worked with each family to help them make sure the meetings were being planned and carried out. Now that each family has hosted at least one meeting the parents are planning meetings on their own. We have also identified the next den leader and most of the parents attend committee meetings and are helping with pack activities as well. The Wolf and Bear Den leaders have also adopted this method and have parents "helping" with some den meetings. The Webelos leader also got a couple of parents to "help" with certain activity pins, set up field trips and get "guest speakers" at their den and pack meetings.

It was a lot of work for the Cubmaster in the beginning, and I will admit not every meeting was a success. We lost a few kids because their parents didn't want to "help". But it also gave new parents time to see what the program is and how it is run before they made a huge commitment of time. And we have spread out the workload so people don't feel like they have to do everything themselves.

About 9 months ago this pack had 10 kids (mostly Webelos), 2 burned out den leaders and a group of parents that just wanted to do enough to get their kid to the next rank or the into the troop. Now we have more than 20 kids, a CM, a CC, 4 Den Leaders and a core group of parents that are all having fun in Cub Scouts.

Since we are on a rant -

I hate to say it but the volunteers have brought some of this on themselves. The biggest reason my council started doing on-line registrations (about 8 years ago) was to control costs and record income and expenses more accurately. .

For example we had a troop than ran the District Klondike Derby and used it as a fund raiser for thier troop. The Scoutmaster of that troop would set the registration fee and collect all the money himself. If the event "made money" he would keep the extra for his troop. If the event "lost money" he would send a bill to council and then would complain (very loudly) when council asked for an itemized list of expenses.

I had a District Training Chairmen purchase all the food for an IOLS training and I told him to send his receipts into council so they could reimburse him. Several months later he was complaining to some unit leaders that Council had never paid him back. I called the council office and asked about his reimbursement. Council said they never got the receipts. I got the receipts from the training chair, turned them in, and he got his check within 2 weeks. But to this day he will tell everyone that it takes council forever to reimburse you.

But Councils and Professionals are not innocent either -

Right now our council is trending toward having more professionals run more District/Council events for 2 reasons. One, like I said above has to do with money and controlling costs. The other is because they can't get volunteers to step up and run events anymore. But part of the reason they can't get volunteers is because of the way they treat some of us.

Our local Merit Badge College is a good example. That event was started about 10 years ago by a small group of volunteers. It has been a very popular event with anywhere from 300-600 kids attending (current limit is 500) every year. We were one of the first to use the councils on-line registration system and budgets/money have always been handled through council. And this event has always made the council money since we get the use of the building donated and it is completely run by volunteers.

Last year we had a scout from another council just show up at the event without being registered. The volunteer that ran the event, our Program Director (professional) and the kids Scoutmaster had a discussion and the kids was not allowed to participate. The Scout and the Scoutmaster were not happy but they were ok with the decision. At some point after the event the scout's parent called our Council Exec. and complained very loudly and rudely. Because of that complaint our Council Exec. forced the program director to fire the volunteer that was in charge of Merit Badge College. Then he changed the Program Directors job duties so he is no longer involved in Merit Badge College. He gave that responsibility to another Program Director who lives 2.5 hours away and doesn't know hardly anybody around here.

The new Program Director is very different from the first one. The first Program Director was always available if you had questions or needed his help (just ask) but he also knew when to stay out of the way. The new Program Director is very good at telling people what to do and that you are doing things wrong but not so good at actually being helpful and taking care of the things we need help with. So far the new Program Director has not been able to find a volunteer around here that is willing to run the event. He had one all lined up and after 1 phone conversation the volunteer quit scouts all together. So the Program Director is running the event himself. He is having trouble finding Merit Badge Councilors because the guy that got fired refuses to share the list of people that helped in the past and the old Program Director refuses to talk about the subject at all. He was told to stay out of it so that is what he is doing. Most of the people that have helped with this event before have heard about the "firing" and are refusing to help this year. Registrations are way down, partly because of the stories going around, partly because the registration page didn't go up until really late, and partly because people are afraid the boys won't get the classes they want because of the shortage of MBC's.

In this case both the professionals and the volunteers are at least partially to blame. We all need to learn to work together and respect each other. It's really hard to respect anybody when everybody is acting stupid.

As for me I am sick of the politics and drama. I was asked to help with this event. But because I am friends with the volunteer that got fired, the Program Director and the guy that quit scouts, I really feel like I need to stay away from this event. And even though I know I am not being very scout like right now I hope this event blows up in peoples faces and is a complete disaster. I feel sorry for the kids who will, once again be stuck in the middle, but I don't see any other way to get people to wake up and start acting right.

I am so glad that I am on my way out of all my scouting jobs that involve the District or Council. In 6 months my only scouting job will be Campmaster and I can go back to teaching cooking, archery, bb, first aid and bunch of other stuff to kids again.

So my first suggestion is - KISS - keep it simple silly.

Next -

Focus on the boys, the den meetings and activities and programs you are offering.

Make sure the den leaders are meeting on a regular basis and they are working on advancements at every meeting.

Make sure the boys are having fun and staying busy.

The boys have until the end of the school year to finish their rank requirements so if they are not done by B&G just keep working with them. And if they don't earn their rank badge it's not the end of the world. They just move to the next level and hopefully they do better next year.

Make sure all the parents are involved in some way. They don't all have to be den leaders but everybody should helping the pack succeed.

Be specific about what you need help with. You need someone to organize PWD. Someone else to plan the B&G. Someone to order/get the awards when boys earn them, etc.

If you don' have a Committee Chair get one, now. Too many Cubmasters try to be both and it just doesn't work.

Check with your Chartering Organization (sponser) and see if there are ways they can help.

At least 1 adult needs to attend your District Roundtable every month. The Cub Scout breakout session is designed to help people just like you. You will meet other leaders that you can ask questions, share ideas and get suggestions from. Your District Commissioner should be able to tell you when and where Roundtable is.

The Cub Scout Leader specific training is all on-line at https://myscouting.org. Your district should also have a Training Chairman that could tell you when/where any in person training events (like BALOO) will be. He might even be able to arrange a training for your pack leaders.

If there are other well run Packs in your area ask if they would allow your den leaders to come visit during a den meeting to see how they should be run. Or would some of their leaders be able to come to one of your meetings and give you some tips/hints/suggestions. We have some packs here that let other packs borrow their PWD tracks. We have 2 or 3 small packs that get together and do 1 PWD together. Other than the track all you really need is a kitchen scale and a dad or two (or a mom) with some experience using hand tools. Make sure the boys stay focused on having a fun activity. PWD is not that hard to run as long as you keep it a fun event. Trying to make it a huge competition or "the best PWD ever" takes the fun out of it.

I know running a pack is a ton of work. The key is to keep it simple and get as many VOLUNTEERS to help as possible. Good luck!

Disappointments are a part of life and IMO we are hurting kids by protecting them from disappointments and taking the value out of working towards a goal.

I think most kids can handle disappointments a lot better than most adults give them credit for. Kids know what is fair and what is not. They understand all about following the rules. They know if they have "earned" an award or not. And they are so proud of themselves when they really accomplish something.

By giving awards to kids whether they have earned them or not you take that sense of accomplishment and pride away from both the kids that did the work and the ones that didn't. And for a lot of kids in scouting that sense of self worth is so very important. Let's face it, a lot of times we end up with the quiet, shy, awkward, different kids that just don't fit in other places. Earning awards gives them a way to build some self respect and gives them something to take pride in. Pride is not always a bad thing.

Nobody likes to lose. Nobody wants to be disappointed and nobody wants to fail at something. But having those experiences helps us learn from our mistakes and makes us want to do better next time. If everybody always wins what is the point of even trying?

If they are 2/3 of the way done I assume they are already Webelos and already have (or will soon have) their Webelos badge.

The program updates from national say boys that have completed their Webelos badge by June 1, 2015 can continue with the AOL requirements as written in the current book. That gives them until the end of the 2015-2016 school year to earn AOL with the current requirements.

Current Webelos can continue in the new program until they cross to a troop so they don't need to buy a new book or repeat anything. They just continue with the program we have been using for years.

Kids that are Bears now should start the new program when they move up to Webelos at the end of the school year. They would already have to buy a new book so that is not an additional cost. They should not have started working on any achievements for Webelos yet so they won't be repeating anything.

The current program has a "citizenship" requirement for Tiger, Wolf, Bear and Webelos. Is "doing citizenship" one more time in the new program really a problem? Isn't Citizenship one of the Aims of Scouting?

2 Den meetings, 1 field trip (go see it) and 1 pack meeting per month. Average was 1 meeting a week.