SlowDerbyRacer

While I concur with the statistics regarding student athletes and grades. As a professional educator, I would disagree with the assertion it is due to emphasis on time management. As a statistician, I would caution against any statement as to the reason without further analysis. There are many co-variables which would need to be isolated. To claim that time management is the root cause for the success of student athletes is inconclusive in the studies and in my experience not valid. If I were to suggest a further analysis  to determine as to why student athletes seem to get better grades, I would suggest one look at the extracurricular guidelines in the schools. Most have some sort of academic eligibility requirement. This suggests that it isn't athletics which helps with grades, but that those with poor grades are unable to participate fully in athletics. The same studies which show correlation between academic achievement and athletics also show a correlation between academic achievement and music. Sociologists have argued that since the phenomenon isn't isolated to specific extracurriicular activities, the increased academic achievement is due to the student's acceptance of school and its culture. Those who participate in extracurriculars identify with the school. Those who eschew school in general have lower academic performance and also do not participate in extra-curriculars. I suppose my point is to caution against claiming the reason for the correlation as fact.

I'll buy most of what you're saying.  However to accept your caution to not infer improved time management as the cause, I'll return the same caution to not assume maintaining eligibility is a main driver.  I did a cursory search of the literature on this question and came across a non-scientific article with athlete commentary.  In it different athletes pointed to different reasons for their in season academic success.  There were comments both crediting improved time management and pressure to maintain grades for eligibility.  So perhaps there are a number of causal factors here which depend on the individual athlete (band member, etc) meaning all of our perspectives are right. 

And a lot of this is a result of adult abuse of a child.  Demanding such commitment from kids has been around since dirt was invented.  My parents recognized this and told us kids to have fun and don't worry about it.  It will make no difference one way or the other in life.

 

When I was in high school I did many different activities and joined a lot of clubs.  I was involved in sports and band, I had fun and because I wasn't the "best" in any of these things, my grades suffered.  I got kicked completely off the golf team because I needed to make up a test after school for another teacher.  Seriously?  I graduated in the lower half of my class yet scored in the top 10% of the nation on the ACT college testing.  Carried a 4.0 GPA in tech school for 2 degrees and a 3.27 GPA at the university.  My masters program didn't have GPAs.

 

I worked all my life and have now retired with twice as much money as my financial advisor says I need.  So, now at age 65, I am retired, I play golf on occasion and I'm still active weekly in Scouting.  So out of all of life's experiences, which one paid off in the long run?  

Then you are an outlier.  Studies have consistently shown athletes have better grades, on average, in season than they do out of season.  That's because of the increased emphasis need on time management.

Top 10% in ACT testing, but bottom half of school is not the fault of participating in sports.  There was something else at play there.

@@SlowDerbyRacer check out shugs videos from my post he really explains things in a easy to understand way and fun he taught me everything I know  and I love sleeping in my hammock when backpacking !!!

Thanks.  That Shug is certainly an interesting dude!

After seeing sports and Scouts, I don't see anything really character-based or even teamwork based being  taught to kids in sports (and my sons played soccer their elementary years, both were in middle school sports, and the oldest in high school sports).  I don't see much being taught besides how to play the sport (and yes, that does involve teamwork, but it's not led by the kids, it's led by adults shouting at them). 

Then I feel for your sons.  Sounds like they've had some bad coaches.  I'll admit the lessons sports teach are not as pointed as those in scouting (there's almost never a sports law and oath for example***), but they do exist.  The bad apple coaches and organizations shouldn't be an excuse to discount the benefits of sports no more than bad apple leaders and/or packs should reflect all of scouting.

*** It's not required to be recited and probably is unknown to those who play and coach, but there is a Little League pledge.  Use of it is at the discretion of the local league.  Sure sounds familiar...

I trust in God

I love my country

And will respect its laws

I will play fair

And strive to win

But win or lose

I will always do my best

The problem is that there are no trees on gravel bars. 

Maybe, but I'd think there might be some on the shore and I've seen pictures of some pretty ingenious mounting setups with rocks, oars, could use the canoes, etc.

Of course I say this as far from an expert.  My knowledge is pretty much limited to the Friday afternoon I wasted last week searching the internet on this topic when I first saw the thread.  I definitely want to give this a try.

I have been camping in a hammock for quite a number of years now. I use it all 4 seasons. The only places where a hammock is not the right tool for me is on river canoe trips where we might be camping on gravel bars. However in these cases, i can just sleep on the ground under the tarp. The tarp is the real shelter, the hammock takes the place of a cot. Oh, my hammocks are made by Claytor, so no double -h alliteration. Most don't, it is funny that the few that do were mentioned all at once.

I'd think a hammock would be more comfortable than a gravel bar.  No?

While not stated, i assume (dangerous) the intent is to avoid 2 people in a tent in an improper situation.  A cabin style tent style is different as it is a large group setting and should be treated no different than regular cabins that are at scout camps all across the country.

Just my opinion...

One of the down sides of all this hyper-competitive youth sports, is that kids are showing up with sports injuries that used to only show up in professional athletes. We have child athletes needing knee and elbow surgery. There is growing concern within the medical community about the detrimental health effects of overtraining and the rise of overuse injuries in youth sports. Basically, a lot of this stuff is unhealthy.

To be clear, this is really a different issue.  There are 2 things that are separate but often intertwined. 

1) Coaches who demand complete commitment to the sport (what I think the OP was getting at).

2) Early specialization and year round training which is what leads to the overuse injuries.

You can have #1 without #2.  And you can also have #2 without #1.

Too many posters here seem to be of the mindset that all parents are in some delusional state and view their son's sports participation with rose colored glasses. While that is true for many parents, believe it or not, there are actually scouts who do have real athletic ability, who have proven it and who have the stats and results to back up their performance and ability.

 

And as at least one other poster noted, yes, the Boy Scouts can be just as demanding, if not more so, of scouts when it comes to participation in meetings and camping trips as coaches can be of their athletes attending practices and games. 

 

That door swings both ways.

And even if those kids are not elite talents, there's still much to be gained from sports participation.  I'll never begrudge a kid who wants to compete, strive to be his best, and make a commitment to something (the team) that is greater than himself.

Thinking out loud.... is scouting really that different?

 

We too require a certain level of commitment in order to do certain things. A scout who rarely, if ever, camps is not going to make patrol leader. They aren't going to progress through many of the awards. I personally insist that a scout has passed emergency aid stage 3 before they can do their expedition challenge. Again a scout who misses multiple thursday nights will probably end up missing out. 

 

The problem is that kids these days have an awful lot more choices than even when I was there age 25 years ago and compared to what one of my assistant leaders had, who is now 73, it's more or less a different world.

Yes, it's different because scouting is not schedule driven like sports.  Scouting does not have a firm timeline.  You could take 2 years to make Eagle or 7 years.  There's no set order that you have to earn your merit badges in. 

Well, that's the difference between rec soccer and travel soccer.  My boys played rec soccer from pre-K until about 7th grade.  They were also active in Cubs and both are Eagle Scouts. 

 

Travel soccer isn't for creating well rounded individuals, it's for creating soccer players.  Scouts creates well rounded individuals. 

Disagree 100%.  Travel sports may create better players, but in the grand scheme of things travel sports create individuals who are able to work toward a goal, practice teamwork, balance time, and a whole myriad of other benefits.  Seeing sports as only creating players is extremely shortsighted.

To the OP's question, I'm not going to start the debate of rec sports vs competitive/travel as that's a giant rabbit hole and really outside the scope of this board.  But I will say, if a scout is engaged in any sport (even rec), I can appreciate the priority the kid and family need to make to it.  I'm a scout leader and a youth coach so I see both sides.  It's frustrating from the scouting perspective for a kid to miss, but on the sports side it's infuriating.  When you sign up for a team, you make a commitment to that team.  Missing not only hurts the kid, but the rest of the team as well.  As someone else previously mentioned, if a scout is in season for a sport I have no issue with the coach expecting attendance.  But I will start to have issues if a coach tries to monopolize the kid's time 12 months a year.

As kids, even though we knew the real meaning, CCD was always referred to as the Central City Dump.

This is a blatant sales pitch, but I'll still call it appropriate (as if I had any real authority!).  I think hammock camping is worthy of discussion here and I'm curious what others have to say.  I first saw it in action at a spring scout camping trip and I thought it was weird and unnecessary.  But as I've thought about it since I think it might be a good way to go and I too would like to hear others' comments on this.  To me it appears it would allow for a lighter pack, possibly a more comfortable sleep, and gets you off the ground.  Negatives to me appear to me lack of a larger shelter if necessary and limited space for groups (didn't even know a double was an option until this post above).

That is true of Internet forums in general, including this forum. I would say that this forum probably has a higher proportion of "quiet" departures, as opposed to those accompanied by "big announcements", than the average Internet forum. In contrast, on Wikipedia (which is partly an encyclopedia but also partly a forum, on the behind-the-scenes pages) there is a certain kind of departure commonly known as a "ragequit." I am not sure that we have had any (voluntary) departures that have quite reached that level of drama. Maybe a couple have come close, but none recently, that I am aware of.

Ragequit.  I like that one.  And I noticed one of the recent quitters really hasn't quit - just changed his name and was on as recently as this morning.  Lots of it is just bluster - the online version of taking one's ball and going home - only to be peeking out the window watching the game and wishing he was still a part of it.

He just needs to be a member of the den for 6 months, do the following 4 adventures and 3 other electives.  No Webelos rank necessary.

a. Building a Better World

b. Camper

c. Duty to God in Action

d. Scouting Adventure

Edit: And to be fully accurate, I should add he also needs to do the Cyber Chip and Child Abuse prevention activity with his parents.

I thought the OP sounded neutral.  This seems to be the Scouter version of an ink blot test.  

 

Today's parents are of the same generation as my former students and scouts.  A few actually are my former students and scouts.  We share a history together.  

 

I loved these people when they were kids.  I'm still very fond of them.  I really like these parents.

Neutral?  No way.  Exclamation point in the subject and the sigh after the parent pushback say he clearly has a position/opinion.  Granted I'll give you neutral if you're just talking about his (apparent) willingness to still meet with them.

I like the inkblot reference!

Let me add a parallel analogy.  You said he's a first year scout right?  That says to me he's a 6th grader.  If this was school, it's completely reasonable for parent teacher conferences to take place. This is a scout equivalent.  As a courtesy and to a degree an obligation, I think you need take the meeting with the parent of the minor child you mentor.

Do what you can to identify who you think might me good (reputation, have seen him/her involved at school, word of mouth, etc) and then ask point blank.  Public pleas for volunteers fall on deaf ears.  Make someone say no.

I'm working with my 3rd CO with my new unit.  It's a church so it's not an issue.  

I'm going to assume by non-issue you mean alcohol isn't around at any activities.

If so, I think it's safe to say your church is not Catholic...

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss04.aspx

 

Alcohol

The following statement was approved by the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America:

It is the policy of the Boy Scouts of America that the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances is not permitted at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members.

Not everything should be interpreted as so black and white.  Take for example our local Major League Baseball team.  They have periodic Scout Nights where the scouts parade on the field in uniform and have a few other perks.  Should that practice of Scout Nights be stopped because the park sells beer?  I think common sense says no.

To the OP's question, if the scouts are manning children's games, there should be no issues.  Now if they start selling beer tickets, that's a different story.

Thanks Chisos and Eagle.  Glad to see others interpret it things the same way I do.

It's probably far from the intent of the program, but I guess it's technically possible to wrap almost all the Webelos and AOL pins in a very short amount of the time and then just stay active enough until it's time to crossover. 

So the new program calls for scouts to do 5 requirements and 2 electives to earn the Webelos badge.  It then calls for 4 requirements and 3 electives for AOL.  

I haven't seen anything that says some or all of the AOL achievements couldn't also be done in the first year.  Am I correct on this?  The question arose as we have scouts already working on their 3rd electives as 1st year Webelos scouts.  Can that 3rd elective be put toward the AOL rank, or would 3 fresh electives still be needed next year.

Said another way, is the Webelos badge and AOL now like boy scout merit badges and advancement where one can essentially work ahead of the current rank?

I'd be surprise to know where TWO originated from.  in 30+ years of scouting, I have never heard an explanation or even hearing about anyone who might know.  It's just a made up tradition used in the BSA.  I don't know of any other organization that uses it.

So it sounds as if it's just a tradition passed down with no known origin AND is not mandated in any scouting or other policy/procedure?  Then why do we continue the use? (rhetorical question)  Units all over the country put their own spin on things and buck tradition and norms (see all controversy on gay scouts/leaders <<< Note that's not an invite to send this thread off on a tangent), yet something that no one understands like the flag ceremony continues on without debate?  That's just a little odd in my book.

On a related note, when I first heard scouts saying this I always just assumed the paper they were reading from had numbered bullets breaking up the sections and the kid was actually reading the bullet numbers... 

No specified ceremony, as you say, but many believe that they have "the" answer.

 

All good if: 1) dignified; 2) looks like you know what you are doing; 3) practiced

 

"Color Guard -  attention."

"Troop  - (camp) attention."

"Color Guard - advance." (Color Guard marches to position and rigs flag for raising.  

When flag ready for hoist, senior member of Color Guard looks at formation commander.

"Color Guard Raise the Colors/Hand Salute/Bugler Sound off."

When flag is at the peak: "Two"

When flag has been secured: "Color Guard - retire." (Color Guard marches off.)

When Color Guard has retired: "Troop (camp) at ease."

Ours is very similar and maybe you can answer a question I've always had.  Why do you/we say "Two"?  It makes no sense to me.