ianwilkins

Yes as I understand, hooters in Britain are car horns.

 

If we had any factories left*, hooters are more likely to be the thing that goes off to mark the start and end of shifts, and lunch, and the all important tea break. Car horn is just that, the horn.

* We do but...

As it happens, I have been to the only Hooters in Britain. On a stag weekend of course. It was entertaining, and the company was good. I certainly wouldn't have described it as sleazy, and I'm not sure the lasses were being exploited, but I did feel a certain amount of unease about objectification via the standard not exactly baggy uniform, and the subsequent pressure on the waitresses to conform to the stereotypes. Then the sports game started on the TVs (England V Australia in the Rugby World Cup as it happened), and there was beer, so I stopped worrying, and treated the waitresses as human beings.

Gosh! Seems to have kicked off a bit!

Snowflake?

 

It is a common tactic of people who do not share my CO's religion and moral values to paint my scouts as being weaker or less masculine.  

 

I don't believe for one minute that good moral values make a scout into a wimp.

I'm sorry you've chosen to take that interpretation. I'm a fellow scout, you are my brother*, rest assured I meant no offence. Having moral values, and trying to "do your best" to be true to them, it is not the easy path we, or our scouts, have chosen.

* Or as we now say in the UK, "part of the worldwide family of scouting".

Ok, here we have the term "special snowflake", as it was first used in this thread, which has caused this recent discussion of the term "snowflake."  Notice that Ian did not call any youth, or category of youth, a "snowflake" - at least not how I interpreted it.  I thought he was referring to the attitude of certain PARENTS who believe that their son is a "special snowflake" - in other words, overprotective parents who micromanage their sons' childhood, because they think their son is so fragile and that if he comes into contact with a situation that is too "hot", he will melt.  Hence, snowflake.  People have been using that term in this forum, almost always in THAT way, for many years.  I am not sure where the "special" part came from - maybe it's just for emphasis.  (Now that I think about it, I have also seen references to certain parents being overprotective of their "fragile flower", which is the same idea, so maybe it is a question of alliteration.)

This is what I meant. This is exactly what I meant. My beef is with the parents that do this sort of thing. The same ones that go barrelling into school to castigate the teacher when their kid gets disciplined. Professional offence takers. The ones that look at you with a worried expression when you tell them of some activity..."but won't there be X there?"... "But Y might happen?" Like we're trying to trying to take their child and get them deliberately maimed by wolves or something.

Son comes home from a campout with a hooters visor, you might ask him about it, in the context of the weekend, "working there were they?" "nice people?" "glad you had a good time". He sticks it in his room somewhere, maybe on the head of a big teddy that really should have gone to the charity shop by now, and that's that.

Sorry I seem to have pushed buttons.

Ian

It is a reference to a PG movie from a few years back. I am just surprised no mom got offended with the phrase. They seem oversensitive about the women helping at camp.

 

For what it's worth, we had some Washington Redskins help out at camp one year. They wore their gear and logos, not scout gear. No one complained as far as I am aware.

Double standard because of a perceived sexual nature of something? Surely not! 

If a Playboy bunny came to staff the Nature Pavilion, and she was not dressed in her "work" clothes

 

She'd be dressed as a rabbit no? Perfectly suitable for a nature pavilion no?

   - Back in the day, the first Playboy I saw was at my local scout camp.

Funny you should say that....

You just don't seem to get dirty mags in the woods anymore*. I blame the internet.

* Although, maybe I'm not looking for them anymore, and I don't go to the woods as much.

There's a certain age, and a certain boy (or dad, or, indeed, mum, as can be the modern way) who may objectify hooters "girls". Maybe once they'd spent some time on camp with them, they'd see they were just normal people like themselves. Who happen to have to wear a different uniform. Is that a bad thing?

For me however, he has strongly recommended:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019I3II8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1K41AF3BILUFC

I think I have something similar after pirate fancy dress...at an explorer scout camp.

If I knew it was pirate bandanas all round, I'd probably try and get a pirate captain's tricorn hat or something, maybe for your SPL son that's running it, or maybe just for me.

We have fabric tubes over here trade name of Buff, non trade name possibly multifunctional headwear, I would expect you can get them with skull and crossbones, ah yes...

http://www.buffwear.co.uk/buff-adult-headwear/original-buff/skull-amp-crossbone-buff

Bit pricey though.

Actually, not that unusual to see the odd scarf worn heretically as a bandana over here. And I know you can get skull and crossbone neckers.

Ian

Similarly we have no serious wildlife. There are no bears or wolves or properly poisonous snakes (we have adders but no one has died since the 1970s and that was an allergic reaction!) to worry about. The only wildlife advice we have to give is don't provoke wasps or hornets!

No one has poisonous snakes. They're venomous.

My daughter is currently doing her Duke of Edinburgh Bronze (the lowest level for the youngest, she's 14) through her school. I'll just talk about the expedition parts as that's the only relevant thing here:

She did two hikes, two days in duration, with camping overnight. The first was a practice, to basically make sure they had the right kit, make sure they could map read etc. They had an adult walking with them for the first couple of hours, checking their competence. Overnight they were at a campground where there were a whole bunch of teachers and helpers, and all the other teams, also camping.

The theory is that they hike and camp independently. I.e. under their own steam. But I suspect there's a steady stream of kids going to the teachers and whining about their team mates and what they said, and getting more gas if theirs runs out. So, maybe, supported by adults, but not hands on led by adults. Some kids can't cope with this, some can.

On the second hike, they have no adults with them except an assessor may pop up and walk with them for a bit to make sure they are playing by the rules.

It's difficult to know what has happened in this case, they were from a school covered by the same local news as me, so last night they talked to the head teacher who reckoned that none of the teams were actually lost at any point.

It sounds like they had four teams out, probably doing silver or gold award expeditions, which are 3 or 4 day hikes, again, supported by adults, but generally no actual adults walking with the groups. The weather came in horrible so I've been led to believe. Windy, wet, and more wet, and more wind. They had either walked up above the cloud line, or the clouds had come in while they were walking. There were two that were possibly suffering from hypothermia. The head teacher said the teams had sought shelter, not sure if they put up their tents, or they had emergency shelters, and reported in. Presumably the team of the ill ones contacted the authorities, and it spiralled up into a full scale rescue for all the teams from there.

The truth is probably somewhere between...the teams missed their checkpoint, were waiting out the storm, and a couple of them were a bit cold, nothing a hot drink wouldn't cure...and they were all about to DIIIIEEEEEE, SEND HELP NOOOOWWWWWW!

Anyway, as Cambridge Skip says, a fair few to use the D of E awards as part of their programme, we don't as it happens, as most of the schools do it, so most of our members are doing it through school, so we don't have the weight of numbers to do it ourselves. No, we would not have adults with them on a D of E expedition, otherwise we'd be breaking the rules. 

We do, at explorer level, (so, aged 14-18) commonly let them loose on their own. Night hikes, day hikes, navigation exercises, self led weekend camps. It can be a bit nerve wracking, but as someone else says...train 'em, trust 'em, let them lead....for example...

A night hike, I get a phone call...

Them: "We're lost"

Me: "describe your surroundings"

Them: "we're in the woods, there's trees"

Me: "um...."

So we had a conversation about where they had been, and where they were when they last knew where they were, and I think they wandered in a given direction until they found a road, and then wandered along the road until they found some landmarks.

Another night hike, another phone call, I think, with some of the same explorers as the previous example:

Them: "we're lost"

Me: "so what you gonna do about it?"

Them: "we're on the common somewhere, and there's a road on the east edge that goes south west, so we're going to head south until we hit the road or the lakes"

Me: "Okay, so you're telling me because?"

Them: "we might be a bit late back"

Me: "Okay, see you later! Bye!"

Self reliance...one of the greatest gifts we can bestow upon the next generation.

Ian

The Dump is still up...

http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/

 

Thoughts?

Please bear in mind that I'm posting this from across the pond, so you may have rules or advice to which I'm not party.

Maybe consider having a page and a group. A closed group for current members, to communicate when and when you'll be doing something, event sign ups, and so on. Remove people when their children move on. Then an open page that's basically an advert for your troop, showing all the fun things you do, so granny can like the page and see the pictures, camping tips, etc. You'd have to be careful what you post, and the settings under which you post, and the settings for the page, for example, making it so that pictures cannot be tagged for example.

Of course, it's a can of worms. It only takes a few inappropriate comments, or a picture that isn't very flattering, or something, and it all kicks off.

We have a closed facebook group, and it's mostly members (I help in Explorers, aged 14-17), and some parents, and alumni, and their parents. Interestingly, our most recent batch of recruits aren't on facebook, or won't tell me they are, it's something parents do, or not cool anyway, and so, by avoiding it, they avoid their parents nosing into their life. Though I'm sure that's not the only reason. I've yet to find out what they use, though we have an email list which seems to work, so I'm not really bothered.

Ian

His parents sound delightful  . A week away from them...

Sorry, not very scout-like of me.

I took my baby to an evening once, he slept through the whole thing and was cute, wouldn't have put anyone off at all, and if you think I'd have woken him up so scouts could change him...no chance. I still see some of them that were there that evening, and freak them out by telling them my son is nearly 17 now. Many of them have their own babies now, in fact, some just about to start in our youngest section I should think.

Now, BSA sometimes seems a little...erm...don't take offence....nerdy...definitely not a place for jocks anyway. I'm sure adding nappy changing to the programme will help no end. Maybe you could get away with it as a "toxic waste disposal night".

Ok,. I amend my original statement about swearing in foreign languages...if you swear in @@ianwilkins English is does sound better than American English.

 

Some how, "I don't give a toss" sounds much better than the American equivalent.

"You're confusing me with someone that gives a s***"

Of course, you all swear like in the movies right? All motherlover this and motherlover that every other word. 

Oh, and the little sod explorer came out with a French swearword last night, directed at the alpha male of course, I reprimanded him as I knew what it meant. I guess they swapped to French as I was trying to get everyone's attention, and using my old fallback of "Attencion! S'il vous plait!" (excuse spelling) which I guess is effective as it's unfamiliar to their ears, yet they know what it means (I tried it in Italian once, didn't work, they just thought I was going mad).

Ian

I don't drink beer but when I do its Dos Equis at a Mexican Restaurant.  I live in a fairly small town, population of 12,345 and all it takes is one person seeing me drink a beer and I am going to be labeled some raging alcoholic.  So I save the Beer for when I am Memphis.

I'm sure there are UK scout leaders that don't drink, I don't drink much, it's got to be said, but we quite often go to the pub after the meeting for a pint of beer. Maybe that's why we don't get many volunteers..."sheesh, if he needs a drink after a 2 hour meeting...I don't need that in my life!" 

I "do my best" not to. I deal with Explorers, not to excuse it, they are a bit older, it's not exactly words they don't here often. Some of them provocate and I profane. I have a very trying young man at the moment who needs to do a lot of growing up pretty quickly, he's 14, and possibly the most difficult Explorer I've ever had, his behaviour is off the scale. Do you have ones where you seem to be calling their name the whole night? One of them. Last night was worse as we met up with another unit, and the alpha male Explorer of that unit took exception to him, and they and their mates, seemed to gravitate toward each other all night, metaphorically butting heads. Another 1/2 hour, or me not intervening and taking them both to one side, and I reckon a brawl might have happened. Both were getting the "not expected behaviour" speech but the little sh...darling kept interrupting me, I swore at him. If memory serves, to paraphrase "for flips sake, just shut for up a minute".

I tried to do my best. I failed. I shall try harder next time. Looks like for some of you, there should not be a next time. Ho hum.

Hello, Thomas.

 

Tell us more.  Were there outlaw Wolf Cubs and Girl Guides before B-P decided to have such things officially?

That's what I understand, at least with Girl Guides. I've heard this before somewhere else I'm sure, so I suspect in this case wikipedia is pretty reliable...

The camp was a success, and Baden-Powell wrote the book Scouting for Boys, which covered tracking, signalling, cooking, etc. Soon boys began to organise themselves into Patrols and Troops and called themselves "Boy Scouts". Girls bought the book as well and formed themselves into Patrols of Girl Scouts while other girls and boys formed mixed Patrols.

In 1909 there was a Boy Scout rally at Crystal Palace in London. In those days, for girls to camp and hike was not common, as this excerpt from The Boy Scouts Headquarters Gazette of 1909 shows: "If a girl is not allowed to run, or even hurry, to swim, ride a bike, or raise her arms above her head, how can she become a Scout?"^[5] Among the thousands of Boy Scouts at the rally was a group of girls from Pinkneys Green. They asked Baden-Powell to let girls be Scouts but he decided that separate single-gender organisations were a better solution. In 1910 Baden-Powell formed The Girl Guides in the United Kingdom.^[6] Many, though by no means all, Girl Guide and Girl Scout groups across the globe trace their roots to this point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_Guides

Effectively the girl patrol gatecrashed the thing then buttonholed BP. Good work!

Ian

Bom Dia from the UK Thomas

I know in the UK the HQ have looked at length of leadership, and for many, it's less than five years, and for many of the rest, they're "lifers". Is it those that get pulled into a section they fancy working with, then stick with it while their kid is there, then drop out? One of my fellow explorer leaders started as a cub leader for one of his kids, then jumped to being an explorer leader, as that kid had gone through scouts by then. His third and final kid must have left the section at least 7-8 years ago. Others seem to follow their kids up through the sections.

I'm probably an oddity for starting when I aged out of Venture Scouts, and only had two break in service, one when all my ventures left, and the other for the first year or two of having a kid.

I guess when your kid leaves, you're either thinking "what's in it for me?" or "I'm enjoying this, there's more kids to lead! Carry on!" or something else that isn't a gross simplification.

When is it time to hang up the hat? I don't know. When you're not enjoying it anymore I guess. That could be for any number of reasons,

- the kids are all little swines,

- you don't like not being physically up to it,

- you've not got time, so you're unsatisfied with the job you're doing

With a high turnover of leaders, does that lead to a lot of wheel reinvention? Does that lead to a load of stuff in the stores that no one knows what to do with as the bloke three generations back bought it? Or fresh and enthusiastic ideas? Nothing worse than seeing a section leader that doesn't want to be there going through the motions.

I worry about being too adult led, and having too many fixed camps on the calendar, not giving enough time to fit something else in that the kids want, though they seem to want the fixed camps we do, and really, with the age range, they're probably only going to do three or four of them at the most, some might go once and say "been there, done that", but most seem happy to go again.

Sometimes I wonder if I've had enough, not sure that's yet, and sometimes I wonder how long some of my leaders have in the tank still, and when I'll have the problem of replacing them. They'll be a tough act to follow for sure.

that's citizenship, not a political activity.  Voting is a citizenship issue, who one votes for is political.

"You should exercise your right to vote"

"Ok, who should I vote for?"

"The one that best exemplifies scout values"

"I thought you said I should vote?"

Very sorry for your loss Krampus. Losing one so young is really hard, and difficult dark times lie ahead. Know that your worldwide scouting family have your back.

Find one's home base on a map.  Draw a 500 mile radius around it.  One now has thousands of inexpensive trips to choose from.  In my case even internationally.  Canoe areas, 20,000+ lakes (Sorry Minnesota, but Wisconsin has 10,000 lakes too), rivers of any challenge level, fishing, camping, national forests, hundreds of miles of national hiking trails, bike trails, State and National Parks, etc. and if one watches closely, there is a National Jamboree in 2017 that costs $850 Canadian and is open to youth 11-14 in Nova Scotia.  Let me see.... West Virginia or Nova Scotia?  Hmmm.   Maybe the Cub National Jamboree in Ontario would be closer. 

 

If one is going to only think of great trips as defined by BSA, they are going to miss out on some really neat opportunities out there.

You mean like this?

http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm?clat=51.507351&clng=-0.127758&r=804.672000307346&lc=FFFFFF&lw=1&fc=00FF00&mt=r

Yup, 8 countries I think if I want to go international, but that's Europe for you. And yes, there are a lifetime of opportunities just in that little bit. One of those countries I've never been to, and I went to Switzerland when I was 1, so I don't remember it!

Ian

I'm a little disappointed that his only chance to go to a World Jamboree as a youth and it will be held in the United States,

We had the same when the world Jamboree was in the UK in 2007, and as a tier 1 nation (or whatever they call it, basically, we pay the most to subsidise others), lots of people started off by looking at the price, $1700 (£1200), and people going..."Twelve hundred quid! For ten days in Essex!?!"

(Essex has a reputation as being not the most picturesque part of the UK)

But that was missing the point. It's the world scout jamboree, and it is where it is, and you only get one shot, as a youth, so you make the best of it.

I've never been to a jamboree, but the fact that people will pay $1000s to be on bin duty for weeks speaks volumes.

In conversation in another place, it seems that scouters, and scouts, tend to fall roughly into two camps, Jamboree Johnnies, and Bushcraft Bennies.

Jamboree Johnnies will be able to justify these big national camps on all sorts of grounds that would be an anathema to the Bushcraft Bennies.

Sounds like a great camp. Enjoy!

Ian