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Hedgehog

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Posts posted by Hedgehog

  1. 1) Do you use Dutch ovens? 

     

    Who doesn't?

     

    2) Wood or charcoal?

     

    Mostly charcoal, but will use wood embers if we have a fire going.  On a winter campout, we once put it in a pot bellied stove.

     

    3) Troop cook or patrol cook?

     

    Patrol cooking.  The Troop has two dutch ovens and between the SM / ASMs we have at least another 6 

     

    4) Size(s) used?

     

    12 inch and 12 inch deep.

     

    5) Uses: stove top style (Stews, soups, oatmeals) or Oven (breads, pies, cobblers, casseroles, pot roast, etc.)

     

    Pasta (1 pound pasta, 1 jar sauce, 1 jar water, 30 minutes), chili, meatballs, short ribs, spare ribs, stews, corn bread, dump cakes, cheese cake, chocolate layer cakes, cobblers, apple pies, brownies, monkey bread, coffee cake and lots more.

     

    6) Do you own an aluminum Dutch oven?

     

    Isn't that a contradiction?

     

    7) Do you use DO's on activities other than plop camping?

     

    We also use them for the cooking merit badge class (we had 6 going at once) and the boys use them for patrol meetings when they are doing cooking related activiteis.

     

    8) Aluminum foil liners or clean as you go?

     

    It depends.  For pasta and baking we use paper liners. We've also used oven roaster bags for liners.  For stews and other things that need to be stirred, we don't use liners because they tear.

     

    9) Oil or wax?

     

    Crisco.  It doesn't go rancid like oil, it is easy to use, can't spill and comes in small and large cans.  What more could you want?

     

    10) Troop use any other cast iron other than the Dutch Oven?

     

    The boys use cast iron skillets to make pancakes (smooth side) and bacon (ridged side).  I also have a double pie iron (lots of fun at campfires with some pie dough and filling or bread and jelly) and a waffle iron. 

     

    11) Feet or not?

     

    Feet.

     

    12) Accessories?

     

    Lid lifter, lid stand, Lodge gloves, trivets (for next two items), pie plates (how else do you make an apple pie?), cake pans (double chocolate layer cake), muffin pan (blueberry muffins) and square pan (brownies and coffee cake)

     

    13) Lodge (USA) or not?

     

    Lodge (USA).

     

    14) Cleaning

     

    Hot water, scrubby sponge but no soap.  If it is real bad, throw it on the grill for 10 minutes and scrape clean.  Wax paper and Crisco to finish it off.

  2. Good suggestions by Mozartbrau and Stosh -- some of which i'm going to borrow!

     

    We do a set price for food - $3 for breakfast, $3 for lunch and $5 for dinner (including dessert).  A typical campout is a Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner and a Breakfast so the per person food allowance is $14.  For a patrol of 8, that is $112.  

     

    This is one area our troop needs to move more toward being completely boy-led.  One of the newer scouts typically volunteers to do the cooking for his patrol so that he can fulfill the T-1st cooking requirements.  They come up with a menu and shopping list and show it to me for review.  I make suggestions based on experience - "plan for two eggs per scout"; "you don't need four gallons of milk even if you are making a dump cake"; "one bag of marshmallows should be enough";  "you might want to get a vegetable to go along with dinner"; "strip steaks are probably too expensive"oh wait, that was me shopping for the adult patrol -- they weren't too expensive).  I'm hoping to have a Grubmaster for each patrol next year (some of the boys who have earned the cooking merit badge with me) and have them be in charge of working with the new scouts on menu planning.

     

    The limited budget and pre-shopping planning typically doesn't leave a lot of leftovers.  What is left over goes into a clear plastic tub that resides in my basement (our CO doesn't allow food in our storage space).  I let the boys who are planning the menu know what we have in the tub - typically pancake mix, syrup, hot chocolate, marshmallows, unopened peanut butter, unopened jelly, ketchup, mustard, etc. so that they can be thrifty.  Anything that is perishable goes home with the boy who did the shopping or one of the leaders for their consumption.  if it need to be refridgerated and won't go bad (maple syrup, cans of biscuits, mayonaise, etc.) it goes in my fridge and comes to the next campout.

    • Upvote 1
  3. I upped HH's reply because he took the first essential step in teaching any scout skill (and saving Western civilization): referencing.

    I upped LC's because, well, because his pic and HH's are similar :huh:, and he kinda used the "anti-reference" technique.

     

    Renax, when the ASM told you that, you should have asked him if the class had everyone look up this supposed rule in a copy of the GTA, or if they were instead taught by the inadequate EDGE method.

     

    I've fournd that good reference skills are invaluable when it comes to taking the BS out of the BSA.  It's amazing what you hear -  "the boys can't take a hke around summer camp without two adults"; "sheath knives are banned in the BSA"; "alcohol stoves are against GSS"; "SM's need to sign off on all requirements"; "you need to pass the swim test to go on a canoing trip" -- the list of myths goes on and on.

     

    And for the record, hedgehogs and beavers look very different.   :D

  4. The answer is in the Guide to Advancement (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf)

     

    ​4.2.1.2 The Scout Is Tested

     

    The unit leader authorizes those who may test and pass the Scout on rank requirements. They might include his patrol leader, senior patrol leader, an assistant unit leader, another Scout, or the unit leader. Merit badge counselors teach and test him on requirements for merit badges.
     
    Once a Scout has been tested and signed off by someone approved to do so, the requirement has been met. The unit leader is accountable for ensuring proper advancement procedures are followed. A part of this responsibility includes the careful selection and training of those who approve advancement. If a unit leader believes a boy has not learned the subject matter for a requirement, he or she should see that opportunities are made available for the Scout to practice or teach the requirement, so in this way he may complete his learning and further develop his skills.
     
    In our Troop, any scout above First Class can sign off on the First Class requirements but we encourage the sign off to be done by the Troop Guides, Patrol Leaders or Assistant Patrol Leaders.
    • Upvote 2
  5. I have to disagree. The boys in our troop are great. Just watching them over the past couple of weeks take care of the Webelos that joined our troop is awesome. All of the guys address me as Mr. Hedgehog. Not withstanding that formality, they actually talk to me about issues they have in scouting, concerns about the guys in their patrol, how they are doing in their POR, Monte Python, ways to build fires, how to sharpen knives, the existence of God, etc. When you backpack and hike with guys for hours, that's what you do -- talk. I've known a bunch of them since Cub Scouts and know their parents. Anytime I ask them for help, they help - I'm not talking small tasks but stuff like come and teach this Cub Scout Den to build fires, come and help me run a Backpacking Merit Badge Class, etc. I've seen these guys take care of each other on campouts and at summer camp. I'm proud to say that these guys are part of the Troop. Geeky, awkward and a bunch of goofballs? Yes. Brats? No way.

    • Upvote 1
  6. I don't see it as trying to get around anything. The rule is that boys in Cub Scouts, other than Webelos, cannot go on a Den overnight campouts because the BSA will not issue a Tour Permit for insurance reasons. There is no prohibition on the parents taking the sons to a Cub Scout event and then deciding to camp overnight as a family. The rules are being followed in that the overnight is not an official BSA event and the parents are responsible for anything that happens once the official BSA event ends. As long as that is clear to the parents and the park where you are camping, I see no issues.

     

    Also, I don't see a problem with wearing BSA uniforms for the Den meeting for the day because it is an official BSA function. Nonetheless, the liklihood of any kid wearing a Class A uniform on a campout is slim -- in my pack about half of them wore Class B T-shirts to Den meetings and I've never saw a Class A on campouts except for the Pack leadership.

     

    As for Cub Scout training, I think it is fine for what you need. The hazzards for camping with a parent in a state park at a pad tent site during the summer are not significantly greater than any other activity. For Boy Scouts the basic SM/ASM training is good, but I think it is lacking in basic outdoor skills and first aid. The outdoor skills I have (and teach to the other leaders in my Troop) and the first aid I acquired by getting CPR certified and taking a Wilderness First Aid course. I've also taken pretty much every on-line course for Weather, Safe Trek, Safe Swim, Safe Boat, etc. so that we are covered for any event we do as part of our Troop outdoor program.

     

    As for the coolers of beer, that typically is prohibited by the park where you are camping. Nonetheless, in our Pack / Troop the parents are responsible and I've never seen any parent have too much to drink outside of Scouting (no drinking at Scouting functions permitted) where kids are present. If the scouting function ends before dinner and the park permits it, I see no problem having a beer with a burger (but then again, I'm a proponent of modeling responsible drinking in front of children).

     

    I agree that having the whole Pack do this would be a great idea, but that is based on my preference for putting more outing in scouting.

  7. I have to agree with ScoutNut. There is a huge difference between Scout Camping and taking the family out camping. You obviously want to cut corners and go Scout camping on the sly. Take the BALOO Training and offer to take the Pack out camping. After all' date=' don't all of the Cubs deserve to go camping with a trained leader?[/quote']

     

    For Cub Scouts, Pack camping is typically family camping. What is a Den other than a bunch of kids who are buddies and typically a bunch of like minded parents that get along well? Also, having been a "trained" Cub Scout leader, I'm not sure what that really adds if the families have any basic clue about camping.

     

    Plan den meetings at the park where you will be camping for Saturday and Sunday. Tell the parents that they are free to make their own reservations if they want to spend the night at the park, go to a hotel or go back home. Problem solved. No rules broken and no rules bent. Two activities - Den meetings and camping out with your family.

  8. Still pending... Three cubbies from a pack to the east, three likey from the pack to the north, one who wasn't in cubbies. Next week is cross over of "our" pack (I'm the former CM) and in a couple of weeks the cross over from the pack to the south. Probably 2 to 3 cubbies from each pack for a total of 12 to 13. That will put the troop at almost 60. Build a boy-led troop with a variety of outdoor adventures and they will come.

  9. It is obviously wrong. Devils advocate here... what if they were handing out copies from a book that showed the scouts how to tie knots? More than likely that would violate a copyright.

     

    It is amazing how much people no longer value intellectual property. It is pretty common to do a search on some subject and you find different websites that have the same text, one of the sites copied w/o referencing the original text.

     

    Copyright law permits for "fair use" and "educational" exceptions. I suspect photocopies of a select number of pages would fall under those exceptions.

     

    As for the use and abuse of intellectual property on the internet, the abuse is just evidence of our failure to effectively teach what is ethical and not ethical.

  10. you could just ignore it' date=' as the kids had a good time. I would not think twice about torrenting a film to show to my group, as on the grand scheme of things its not the biggest transgression in the world.[/quote']

     

    Exactly. Just like stealing... err shoplifting (that sounds so much better) a pack of bubblegum isn't going to bring down the economy. Heck, why not pickup a enough gum for the kids -- they would have a good time with that. Oh yeah, while where at it, let's just go camp on that wooded lot that belongs to someone else without asking permission -- they aren't using it anyway. Oh yeah, that person who bought $20 of popcorn, they will probably forget about their order, so I can just keep the $20 as a donation to my camping gear fund and not put in the order. Oh and that term paper, I can just copy the one I found on the internet... my teacher won't notice the difference and that will allow me to go on the campout this weekend and have a good time.

     

    Integrity is shown in how you behave when you think nobody is watching.

    • Upvote 1
  11. A possible suggestion for a different solution.... work with the new COR representative to revamp the committee. Try to get people with boys currently in the unit on the committee. If your son has aged out, you can stay for a year to provide wisdom to the new members.

     

    That way, you get some empathy for the boys - seriously, who is going to be an [insert un-scout like word] about advancement if they and their sons are involved in the troop? Also, the new blood will go through the current training.

     

    Finally, if there is a concern about the boy's leadership (agree, the requirement is "responsibility") then there is a problem with the Troop program that the committee needs to address. That is the role of the BOR and the committee -- not to evaluate the scout but to evaluate the quality of the program.

  12. Interesting. As I read the rules, California judges also cannot be part of Girl Scouts either since they invidiously discriminate on the basis of gender by not allowing boys to be members. So that tells me that even if the ban on homosexual leaders is removed, membership in the Boys Scouts is still prohibited because we don't allow girls to be members. However, it is likely that Trail Life USA would not be effected by the ban because it is a religious organization.

     

    I guess when you try to make rules designed not to provide impartiality but to make a political statement you get unintended consequences.

     

    Maybe the BSA can make "members" only the youth and the adults become approved "volunteers" thereby circumventing the ban on members in the organization.

  13. As others have pointed out, it depends on the badge and the wording of the requirement. I break down merit badges into three groups of requirements: learning, showing and doing. Learning can be done in merit badge classes or by the scout on their own. Learning is acquiring the background knowledge. I have no problems with the boys using the merit badge book or even the on line worksheets to guide their learning. Showing includes actually demonstrating a skill or having a discussion with the merit badge counselor. Showing needs to be done to with the merit badge counselor. Doing needs to be done on outings.

     

    Camping, hiking, cooking and backpacking all require activities that need to be done in the outdoors. It doesn't make sense that the merit badge counselor be there for all of those activities. A scout is trustworthy, so if they tell me they did something, I take them at their word. However, I do ask that they tell me about it. Where did you hike, what did you cook, where did you camp and what did you learn doing it?

     

    I've been encouraging the boy leaders in our troop to be more cognizant of opportunities to meet advancement and merit badge requirements and to incorporate them into the outings. For example, we have volunteers to do the cooking so that they can satisfy the T-1st cooking requirements, we have one or two scouts in charge of campout planning so that they can satisfy the camping merit badge requirements and we try to plan several backpacking trips so that the boys can log the necessary miles.

     

     

    • Upvote 1
  14. My son has said that he doesn't want to leave the troop because a lot of friends have been made there but we are afraid that there may be a possibility for retaliation in the future (such as withholding ranks' date=' etc. *[u']which they have done in the past to other scouts[/u] who have questioned his "ruling")

     

    I agree and that is one of my major concerns with this. The ultimate reason why we are choosing to take this to the committee and push the issue is a moral one. All we are asking the SM and the Committee to do is to follow BSA policy. What would happen if we just left and not pushed the issue? - The same thing that has been happening to other scouts in this troop. (Several have left in the 12 months since we have joined because of issues similar - denials for Scoutmaster conferences' date=' denials for boards of review, denials of ranks. [/b']The scouts and parents are getting very frustrated...) I have seen the troop numbers drop from about 35 active scouts when we joined to about 20 active scouts currently.

     

    If you have the guide to advancement, you understand that the Scoutmaster is wrong there too. The problem for scouting with a Scoutmaster who believes "my way or the highway" is that scouts take the highway. Advancement is one of the methods of scouting... take that away or make it more difficult then the program becomes a little less like scouting.

     

    Good luck to you and your son.

  15. Although your son should have followed up on his request with the Scoutmaster in person, I don't think you son has made any real mistakes. He did what he was supposed to do and the Scoutmaster dropped the ball by not calling back (presumably because he didn't want to issue the blue card) and then by imposing his own rules.

     

    The Scoutmaster and Committee are wrong. Scoutmasters cannot deny a blue card. The BSA Guide to Advancement provides:

    7.0.0.3 The Scout, the Blue Card, and the Unit Leader

     

    A few merit badges have certain restrictions, but otherwise a
    ny registered Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or qualified Venturer or Sea Scout may work on any of them at any time.
    Before he begins working with a merit badge counselor, however, he is to have a discussion with his unit leader. That a discussion has been held is indicated by the unit leader’s signature on the Application for Merit Badge, No. 34124, commonly called the “blue card.†Although it is the unit leader’s responsibility to see that at least one merit badge counselor is identified from those approved and made available, the Scout may have one in mind with whom he would like to work. The unit leader and Scout should come to agreement as to who the counselor will be. Lacking agreement, t
    he Scout must be allow
    ed to work with the counselor of his choice
    , so long as the counselor is registered and has been approved by the council advancement committee.

     

    ***

     

    The discussion a Scout is to have with the unit leader is meant to be a growth-oriented and positive conversation. The unit leader should discuss any concerns related to working on the merit badge and provide appropriate counseling.
    It is then the Scout’s decision whether or not to proceed with the merit badge.
    The process is intended to inform the Scout about what he may encounter along the way, and perhaps to give him suggestions on how the work might be approached. It also has the purpose of keeping the unit leader up to date with what the members of the unit are doing.

    You can find a copy of the Guide to Advancement here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf and the cited sections are on page 45.

     

    There is no discretion on the Scoutmaster's part. He has the discussion with the scout and then signs on the blue card.

     

    I would recommend giving this information to your son and having him bring it to his scoutmaster asking for reconsideration. That would be the best learning lesson for him -- standing up for himself when he is right.

    • Downvote 1
  16. This is where you get state park/trail maps' date=' and draw a radius reflecting how far you all want to travel. Then have the boys research points of interest within that radius.[/quote']

     

    I'm big on maps. I don't go anywhere without a map. I actually realized that the boys will probably never use a paper map for finding directions on a road... so at least they will learn to use one to find trails. I had the boys plan out hikes for the venture patrol last summer in a similar manner.

     

    I'm still working on the minimum equipment for backpacking. We have a bunch of guys (including me) that like hammocks (works great when you can't find a flat spot for your tent). I've been looking at some silnylon tarps for a rainfly when backpacking (you only have to get drenched once to decide it is worth the weight) but some of those can do double duty as a tent or shelter.

     

    Tahawk - Great ideas. I really like the tree planting idea. I'm trying to come up with a conservation project for our summer hike on the AT in Shenandoah so it will qualify for the backpacking merit badge. Of course, would want to contact the folks responsible for maintenance to get approval for anything like that. I saw a website that had great makeup for simulating injuries (which was much better than the ketchup used when I did WFA training).

     

     

  17. Speaking of the dead of winter, one of the boys suggested that we do a backpacking trip on skis or snowshoes. The logistics on that one may be too difficult in that most of the boys don't have cross country skis or snowshoes and because we don't have any lightweight 4 season tents. Another boy suggested a downhill skiing trip (will have to check G2SS on that).

     

    Although not related to winter, one of the boys wanted to go deep sea fishing. I liked the idea but the rest of the PLC wasn't so excited about it.

     

    I've never heard of canyoning. Based on a quick trip to Wikipedia, that sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately, there aren't any canyons nearby and the nearest river (the Delaware) is not particularly safe to swim in due to the currents (there are usually several drownings a year -- almost all of which are related to underestimating the river's current and many involve alcohol). I like the idea of finding that swimming hole on the trail and taking a swim (of course following G2SS). It would probably be more fun if the boys just went in with their hiking shorts rather than changing into a bathing suit.

     

    One ASM suggested going on a caving trip where we would camp in the caves. He knows several people who are very knowledgable about caving (they actually perform search and rescue in caves). Let's just say that I'm more of an elf than a dwarf.

  18. This is great. A lot of ideas here I can bring to the PLC and they can build on.

     

    The search and rescue idea is one I remember talking to a couple of the younger scouts in our Troop about. They thought it would be a good idea to do that as a patrol competition -- see who finds the lost scout the quickest.

     

    One of our ASMs is really into cycling, so the camp and bike idea would be great. I think a couple of day bike trip would be great. We would probably need a support vehicle for gear for that. Also, camping and then having a Saturday bike trip would be fun too.

     

    Ken -- those are all great ideas. Last summer we passed by a couple of waterfalls and springs while hiking. One of the other ASMs and I both thought it would be fun just to hike to one of those spots and let the boys just play in the water and hang out. OK, the adults would enjoy it too. The orienteering campout is a great idea. We tried something like that last year, but the "permanent course" was less that exciting. The good part was that the older boys took responsibility for teaching the skills and leading -- all I had to do was tell the adults that they had to stay at the back of each group and were not permitted to talk (I'm working up to the boys going out hiking without the adults -- change takes time). Astronomy camp out sounds cool too. We have an amateur observatory nearby, but I'd love to go way out (hard to get away from city lights when you are sandwiched between Philadelphia and NYC). I saw a "dark skies" site at a state park out in Western Pennsylvania. A long drive, but I think it would be worth it.

     

    Eagle94 -- I love the crash site idea. There actually is an old WWII B-29 crash site within hiking distance of where we do summer camp. I think that some of the older guys would enjoy coming up with a series of calamities. Thank for the laugh on the signaling -- at least they know it works. One exercise I want to do is to have the boys at different distances and show the difference between yelling, whistling and signaling and how effective they are. I wonder how may guys in our Troop actually carry whistles and signal mirrors (other than me and my son).

     

    The trail maintenance idea is a good one. At camp this summer, the venture patrol and I did some trail maintenance on the hiking trails within the scout camp. That worked well as part of the requirements for some camp awards and the Paul Bunyan award and was in line with the venture patrols' goal of spending a lot of time hiking and backpacking (we did 44 miles over the course of the week). I'm also a member of the NY/NJ trail conference and they are the group responsible for maintaining the trails (including the AT) in this area. There are a bunch of scout camps that abut various trails.

     

    Thanks for all the ideas and keep them coming.

  19. Great ideas.

     

    I like the wilderness survival idea. I've thought about having the boys go on a hike and "get lost" so that they have to survive. They will know ahead of time what is going on, but they will only be able to bring what they would have on a hike - i.e. the ten essentials plus an emergency blanket or bivy. The goal will be to stay out overnight and then hike back into camp the next morning. The only dinner the boys would get is what they have in their day pack - Cliff Bars, trail mix, etc. There probably wouldn't be time to build shelters (I've always laughed at the Wilderness Survival merit badge at camp where the boys have three days to build their shelters). The instructions would be that the adults are silent and "invisible" and we can only intervene in case of a true emergency.

     

    Our boys have done the "Cast Iron Chef" competitions at both campouts and at patrol / troop meetings. Those competitions are always a lot of fun.

     

    The primitive camping ideas is great too. We have one scout who wants to go on a fishing trip. Maybe a hike to a lake, some tarps for tents, wool blankets for sleeping and cooking over the fire. The boys can cary the cast iron frying pan, a grate to grill over the fire and an aluminum pot for boiling water. I can almost taste the freshly caught trout with some homestyle potato wedges on the side.

     

    We're thinking about canoeing and then backpacking into summer camp this summer. Last summer, we backpacked in 18 miles. The boys kept asking the other scouts, "So how did you get to camp?"

     

    We are also thinking of a 5 day, 30+ mile backpacking trip on the AT in Shenandoah at the end of the summer. I'm really looking forward to that.

     

    I love the shooting sports weekend idea, especially because the boys picked "ballistics and projectiles" as one of their monthly themes for this spring.

     

    We've done real rock climbing (i.e. not a climbing wall) earlier this year (COPE on Saturday, rock climbing on Sunday). Well worth it, especially for the kids that had only done the climbing walls before.

  20. I'm looking for some ideas for different types of outings to incorporate into the troop's outdoor program. Ideas that would up the excitement level and give the scouts different experiences. Some of the ideas we have done or are planning include:

     

    Beach Campout

    Campout at COPE Course

    Canoeing Trip

    Backpacking Trips

    Lightweight Long Distance Backpacking (13 Miles in One Afternoon)

    Sea Kayaking (One Day Adventure While Staying at Scout Camp)

    Skiing / Snowshoeing (One Day Adventure While Staying at Scout Camp)

    Single Day Hikes and Urban Hikes

    Scout Camp Camping with Hikes (6 to 8 miles)

     

    Any other ideas?

  21. Another option is to have the non-felony charge expunged from your husband's record. Expungement is typically available for those sorts of charges in the circumstances you mentioned. I would recommend looking into that regardless of what your decision is regarding submitting his application for Den Leader.

  22. I'll echo what others have said. Entitlement doesn't come from getting things for free, but expecting those things and then doing nothing in return. They can give back through service projects and, if they stick with scouting for the long run, they will give back to others if they continue live the Scout Oath even after they age out.

     

    I disagree that scouting is a richer person's activity. If you have a pair of shoes, you can go on a hike. You can have a Troop spend a whole Saturday: 1) learning to tie knots with pieces of a $5 rope; 2) learning first aid with $10 worth of supplies; 3) learning map and compass skills with a map printed off the internet and a $1 compass for each scout; 4) learning cooking skills using less than $20 worth of ingredients for a group of scouts; 5) playing confidence and team building games for free; 6) learning about plants and animals from books in the library or hikes; etc. I think that the scouts spending a day doing any of those activities has them put some skin in the game because they are investing their time and effort.

     

    I realize that camping outside can become expensive but there are ways to pick up gear inexpensively. In your case the troop will have to buy the gear. The skin in the game here is that the scouts take care of the equipment. Let them know where the money came from -- give back by doing service projects for those organizations and other organizations so that it isn't a quid pro quo but they learn that service is about giving from what we have (be it time, money or skill) to those that are in need.

     

    As your troop becomes more mature, the older boys can give back to the troop by leading, mentoring and training the younger boys. That is the essence of scouting.

     

     

     

     

  23. I would argue that this is not a continuum, take a snap-shot of any unit, Pack, Troop (girl scout or boy scout), or Crew and they will be getting one of these grades. Just like school, once you start making A's you get it, they tend to self-perpetuate.:cool: The right mix of adults and youth and this you have a Grade-A unit every minute of every day in the life of your unit. But ...

     

    B's happen. Most adults know when the unit is coming home with B work. If your unit generally makes A's , most youth probably know when they are slipping too. It takes a little coaching/cheer-leading to get away from those B's. And sometimes on the youths' side it takes asking for help. (I find the latter problem with my crew a lot. It is very hard for a teen to admit they need help.) On the other hand, it's all too easy to be satisfied with a 3.0 average.:confused:

     

    To me, the bouncing between A's and B's is part of the continuum of being boy-led. Actually, I tend to see each year start out with a B and the boy leaders grow into those roles. The other part of the continuum is what aspects of the Troop are boy-led. The more aspects the better.

     

    ​For example, taking just the running of the weekly meeting, is your (in the generic sense, not directed at Qwazse) troop boy-led to the extent:

     

    1. The boys lead the weekly meetings, meaning they are up front covering everything and have done all the planning on their own and the only adult is sitting in the back of the room watching quietly.

     

    2. The boys lead the weekly meetings, but an adult reminds them to make certain announcements regarding upcoming activities and is there to guide them if the scouts need help (this is probably where our Troop is)

     

    3. The boys lead the weekly meetings, but an adult makes announcements and is there to give them instructions if things aren't going as planned.

     

    4. The boys lead the weekly meetings, but an adult advises them when they are planning the activity by asking questions and providing guidance (I tend to do this with the scouts)

     

    5. The boys lead the weekly meetings but an adult has to approve the activity and is required to be present to make sure everything goes as planned.

     

    Another example is outings... is your troop boy-led on outings to the extent that:

     

    1. The boys figure out what they want to do, find the place they want to go, ask an adult to make the reservation, plan the activities, type up the permission slips, collect the checks, arrange for drivers, coordinate cooking and buying of food, prepare and pack the necessary troop gear, unload gear and set up camp, camp away from adult leaders, handle everything that needs to be done for the trip to be a success.

     

    2. The scouts come up with the idea of where they want to go and the adults find several options for the scouts to go and the scouts make the final decision. The adults make the reservation, print the permission slips, collect the checks, arrange for drivers. The scouts arrange for cooking and buying of food. The scouts pack the gear with an adult making sure everything that is necessary is packed (preferably by coaching the scouts in advance of the day of departure). The scouts unload gear and run everything once they get to the destination. (This is where our Troop is).

     

    3. The scouts list ideas of what they want to do, the adults decide where they will go to do several of those activities, The adults handle all the paperwork. The adults appoint a scout to do the shopping and cooking. The adults direct the senior scouts regarding how to supervise packing the gear and remind them what gear needs to be packed. The adults direct the senior scouts regarding how to supervise the younger scouts in setting up camp and regarding what needs to be done once everyone is at the destination.

     

    All of the situations in the meeting and outing could be called "boy-led' but there is a significant degree of difference in how much leading the boys are doing. The difference could be from one troop to another, one adult leader to another in the same troop or even dependent on the boy leader.

     

     

  24. I think that the two illustrations in the article are there for comparing and contrasting. The first illustration appears to be adult lead - the adults putting up the tent (pole in nose and all that) and the second illustration appears to be boy lead (an adult helping as directed by an older scout).

     

    I'm not sure that the article is implying that it is OK to revert back to adult-led but that the troop realized that they hadn't done the groundwork and nobody (adults or scouts) knew what they were doing. I'll give credit where it is due, they didn't give up on boy-lead but decided to do it in a way that would work for their troop.

     

    I think that the article is pointing out that boy-lead requires: 1) the boys to be trained before being asked to lead -- not just thrown in the deep end and told to learn to swim; 2) the leaders to be properly trained so they know their role; and 3) the parents to be educated on and indoctrinated into the boy led culture.

     

    I also agree with the article that boy-lead is a continuum. In theory, all troops should be boy lead. In practice, a lot of troops that say they are boy-lead are not.

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