Hedgehog

As I was thinking about this topic, I realized that I didn't include my most important piece of advice that I have given my son.  I tell him that the rank of Eagle is not as important as the path he takes to get there.

On the path so far, he has learned to kayak, sail and ride a horse.  He has developed a love of archery and bicycling.  He looks forward to our troop's camping and backpacking adventures and looks back on the amazing things he has already done.  I see him sometimes help and teach the younger scouts about cooking on campouts.  That is just the beginning of his story.

To be an Eagle, I think he has to move from competency in the skills he has learned to mastery (primarily through practicing those skills and teaching those skills to younger scouts).  He also has to learn to lead.  If he follows HIS plan, he will have served as a Den Chief for three years (when he signed up for that job, he agreed to continue in that role until the Den crosses over), an Assistant Patrol Leader / Guide for one year (as a Star Scout), a Patrol Leader for one year (as a Life Scout) and possibly a Senior or Assistant Senior Patrol Leader for a year (still as a Life Scout) before earning Eagle at the beginning of 11th grade.

@@christineka -- Your son sounds like a great kid and I'd love to have him in our Troop.  You sound like a wonderful parent and I suspect that how great a kid your son is reflects on how you and your husband have raised him.  I think that Scouting can become something really transformative for your son if you encourage him to take control of his advancement.  Have a talk to him and ask him some questions:  What does being an Eagle Scout mean to him?  Why does he want to become an Eagle Scout?  What does leadership mean to him?  How can he be a leader in his Troop now and in the future?  What does he want the story to be about how he earned the rank of Eagle?  

Fyi, Devils Path is in the Catskills.

I knew that... at one point.  

I'll be on the trail on Tuesday. Just a segment. There was a time that I would blast through everything. Today, I like to experience everything, just sit once in a while and listen and watch everything around me and enjoy the experience. It takes forever to get there but it isn't a race anymore.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Enjoy the trail.  I always love it when I catch up with the 16 year olds and ask them, "Did you see that view a couple of miles back?" and they respond, "What view?"  

The best rest stop I had was while backpacking the AT with my son in New Jersey -- stopped to have coffee and Cliff bars at the Sunrise Mountain overlook on a clear, crisp November morning.  He turned to me and said, "I can't imagine a better place to have breakfast in the world."

Did the AT over three seasons a while back. I highly recommend it.

I would love that.  Right now, I'm working on section hiking the whole AT... in New Jersey.  Have a couple of sections left between High Point and the New York State line.

We're doing a 50 miler on the Monadnock-Sunapee Greenway in New Hampshire at the end of the summer.  Have 6 weeks to prepare for that.  Treks planned for the future include Devil's Path in the Adirondaks and the West Rim Trail of the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon.  Hoping to convince my son to do the 100 Mile Wilderness and then the Tahoe Rim Trail as he gets older..

@@packsaddle  I think I've got two more years where I can out pace him.  I can probably stretch it for a couple of more years by putting more and more gear in his backpack instead of mine.  I'm hoping that after doing this for 5 more years, I'll be in good enough shape to at least keep it respectable.  If not, all I've got is my charming personality to make them want to backpack with me.     

But there is hope.   I met a 60 year old thru-hiker on the Appalachian Trail a couple of weeks ago.  He said that when he was a scout at age 12 he met a thru-hiker and promised himself that he would do that some day.  He said it just took 48 years to keep that promise.

Curious because 3 of the 12 year old boys in son's troop did Order of the Arrow at camp. 

Just a question as to what "did" means.  At our summer camp, there is an Order of the Arrow campfire that all scouts are invited to attend.  I don't think that elections can be held at camp but the campfire is the "call out" honoring the boys that have been elected.  The initiation is called an "ordeal" and is not done at summer camp but over a weekend.

As others said, to get into OA you need to be voted in by a majority of your troop at an election held by the OA after meeting the requirements (which includes the camping).  I would be surprised if any 12 year old could be elected to OA.

@@christineka

Let me give you a point of comparison.  My son is turning 13 at the end of August.  I remember that my wife took him to his first Cub Scouts meeting because I was on a business trip.  A couple of years later, i ended up as the Cubmaster.  My wife also took him to visit the Troop when he was a Webelo.  He decided to continue which was not a surprise -- he earned the Webelos High Achiver award and truly enjoyed Cubs Scouts.  He asked me to become an Assistant Scoutmaster and I did.

My son made First Class within a year.  It took a little prodding from me and his mom to get the final requirements done and I did spend a lot of time with him making sure he knew all of the requirements (knots, lashings, first aid, etc.) rather than just having them checked off.  He made Star a year later.

He has completed 14 merit badges (enough for Life and then three toward Eagle).  Nine of those badges were  done over three summers at camp, two were done with counselors with our troop other than me and three were done with me (Camping, Cooking and Family Life) as part of group meetings done with other scouts in our troop.  He will complete Backpacking (he just has to do one more 15 mile trek and a 30 mile trek) and Bicycling (has just a 10 mile ride and a 50 mile ride) in the fall.

He has camped out 47 nights in the 27 months since he become a Boy Scout (only 25 count toward Camping -- two were in rustic cabins, twelve were his second and third years at summer camp and seven were camping or backpaking with me).  He has hiked over 80 miles (including some hikes with 3,000 foot assents and some with serious rock scrambles) and backpacked over 50 miles.  At the end of the summer, he is doing a 50 miler backpacking trek over 6 days.  With our Troop's outdoor program, we camp pretty much every month and try to do as many two day campouts as possible.  I'm one of the ASM's who works with the boys to develop the program and we try to balance a lot of camping with high adventure (backpacking, canoeing, kayacking, challenging hikes, etc.).

This summer at camp, he was an assistant patrol leader.  He struggled somewhat in leading.  He is very much still a kid and is just mastering taking care of himself and it was a stretch for him to have to take care of others.  I was at camp the last half of the week and had a couple of discussions with him about service leadership (using Stosh's line about "taking care of your boys") and how exhausting it is to lead that way while taking care of yourself (NOTE:  I had a lot of discussions with other scouts on leadership and other issues -- I view my role as "Coach in Chief").  He is learning leadership -- I've seen how he has grown as a Den Chief over the past year.  Nonetheless, he still has a long way to go.  

My son is shooting to get Life by the end of next year (when he is finishing up 8th grade).  He is hoping to be an Assistant Patrol leader for his patrol when things start up again in September (he will still be a Den Chief so he wants to do that merely to lead and not as his POR).  He has said that he wants to wait a year before starting his Eagle Project because he feels that he could do a better project when he is older.  

After he made First Class, I took a step back and let him be responsible for his advancement.  I do work a lot with him on skills -- everything from knots, to fire building, to cooking, to planning trips and treks, to knife skills -- and coach him on leadership.  As a parent, we want to solve their problems - but the better solution is to work with them and teach them to solve their own problems.  Ultimately, to be a true Eagle, they need to own their advancement.  Both my wife and I have to consciously remind ourselves to back off when it comes to advancement.

Awesome.  I can say that I'm hoping that my son and his buddies will still invite me to come along backpacking after they age out.  I'm trying to make the last week of the summer trek a tradition.

 

""The manual defines this “white culture†with a list of values, such as “promoting independence, self expression, personal choice, individual thinking and achievement,†because apparently those are strictly â€œwhite†concepts and not emphasized in black communities. 

 

So let me understand, if these are bad values then the idea must be to promote the opposite: dependence, self censorship, lack of autonomy, having others tell you what to think and failure?  That sounds like slavery to me.

The $100K would have been better spent taking one thousand economically disadvantaged students on a week long backpacking trip and teaching them the most important thing that my parents (children of immigrants who never went to college) taught me:  you can do anything you set your mind to.

Every Scout has their challenges.  I like to think of it in terms of what that Scout needs to suceed.  Some need encouragement, some need physical fitness, some need knowledge, some need guidance, some need reassurance, some need to be pushed, others need to be redirected.  As Stosh says, it all is about teaching the boys to take care of the boys in their patrol.  The problem seems to be that these ASMs can't teach what they don't know. 

Go ask the average young teen what they would like to do next weekend and see how often fishing, hunting, hiking or camping comes up. At best you might get some biking in there somewhere.

And yet I spent last weekend with 21 Boy Scouts camping, doing a service project and hiking and cooking.  We've got 30 guys going to summer camp.  Our Troop is at its largest size ever and there are three other strong troops in the same school district.  Our guys are excited about the trips coming up over the summer and next year.  They are excited about tackling the hard merit badges like cycling and backpacking.  They are excited to come to our weekly meeting.  Build a Boy-Lead Troop that takes on adventures and they will come.

Today's "journalism" tend to be a bit slanted towards anti-scouting, but how much of that is countered directly on the same medium?  We complain in our own little groups about how scouting gets a bad rap in the press and while we spend big bucks on scout trailers, we spend nothing on program advertising.  Our local council will promote the fundraiser activities on local TV and radio, but nothing on the program of scouting.  Maybe local units need to consider this.

We don't have to.  Our boys are covered in the local paper every time they complete and Eagle project.  They were out in force helping set up our town's street festival.  They marched in the town Memorial Day parade.  They are in each of the town's churches for Scout Sunday.  They tell their parents how much fun they have on campouts and the parents see how scouting helps their boys grow into ment.  Those parents tell other parents.  

To paraphrase Tip O'Neil...All Scouting is Local.  Nobody cares about the BSA in Irving... they care about the Troop in their town.

OK, so I could have gotten half of those correct.   I like the game idea.  May have to suggest it to the boys for use with and outdoor or skills theme.

I think part of the three bucket method is to reinforce the Patrol Method.  What opportuinity is there for boys to work together if they all just rinse their plates?  The three bucket method is an exercise in team work.  One guy boils water, one guy takes out the buckets and drops in the soap and sanitizing tablet, one guy half fills the first two buckets with cold water and third bucket with entirely with cold water.  One guy in charge of scraping, one guy in charge of washing, one guy in charge of sanitizing, one guy in charge of drying.  Two guys in charge of filtering the water as they dump it.

As for the necessity of sanitizing, lets just say that one extra bucket kills any viruses that could be picked up from scouts hands, eating surfaces, etc.  And, from the looks of the rinse bucket, that extra rinse IS necessary.  That really is the difference.  If you have running water in your sink, you rinse the plates in clean running water -- not a basin that has been used to rinse everything else which may or may not be totally clean due to the residue from the wash bucket.

Now, I think that Stosh's clean-up method makes sense when we go backpaking.  We don't cook as patrols - everyone has their own food prepared in their own pots and eaten off their own plates. My method is to wipe with a small paper towel, wash with warm water and rinse with boiling water - using as little water as necessary.

Whereas my intent was not to blame anyone, but instead to point out the changing demographics of society.  The mountain man image of the outdoorsy male is pretty much gone and is instead replaced by the stereotypical slack-jawed redneck imbecile.  Is it any wonder scouts don't want to associate with that social image being promoted now.

 

The uber-intelligent computer geek/hacker/gamer is the other end of the spectrum of social outcasts.  These are the guys living in their parents basements with no hope of doing anything on a Friday or Saturday night other than LAN parties with other fellow geeks/hackers/gamers.

 

The Brainiacs of the STEM world might win a trophy at the Science Fair, but that's not the same thing as bringing home the hockey, football or baseball trophy at the end of the season.  Now those are the really cool guys.  They might have the same IQ as the stereotypical slack-jawed redneck imbecile, but they get college scholarships anyway.  That's cool, too.  

 

So who's left in society that we haven't talked about?  Scouts?  Yeah, right, they don't get much attention.  After all these are the dorks.

 

So now, BSA, who are you going to market to in the years ahead?

Stosh:

Those aren't mutually exclusive categories.  The scouts in our troop do sports, science competitions, play video games, play musical instuments, sing in choir and like to think they are Bear Grylis on weekends.  I just look at the ASMs in our troop - computer programmers, engineeers, scientists, lawyers, architects who ski, ride bikes, hike, kayak, backpack with their kids outside scouts.  

I suspect that everyone here feels the same way about their troop.  So where is the problem?  It is in our perception of what everyone else is doing or what national is doing.  

My sense on this topic is that all politics is local.  If you are upset about national, take a hike... and take a group of boy scouts with you.  If you think that the program doesn't emphasize outdoors, talk to your boys and kick up your program a notch.  Every boy has a sense of adventure -- its our role as leaders to encourage them to find it.

Stosh:

We did a shakedown hike with old scouts and new crossovers on a reallly nice day in March.  It had rained a lot the night before.  Our boots and pant legs were covered in mud.  As we got to the trailhead, I told the new guys, "Scouting is the one activity that you can come home covered in mud and your parents have to say 'good job.'"  Had a crossover on his first campout.  Mom was worried -- it was the first time he had ever been away from home overnight.  At pick-up, Mom asked her son how it was.  His face lit up as he said "awesome."  

Next weekend we are going hiking near some waterfalls -- we told the boys that they should wear bathing suits so they can get wet.  Our "free time" activity at camp is for the guy to all go out in boats on the lake.  We're doing a 50 mile backpacking trip in August and going sea kayaking in September.  We've got crossovers who can't wait to go on a 15 mile backpacking trip in October.  

In a different area, I had a meeting with a scout last week who was wrapping up the Family Life merit badge.  We discussed the role of parents and what makes a good father as required for the merit badge.  I won't go into the discussion, but at the end I told him that his parents had done a good job with him.  The same with the rest of the boys -- they are great kids who love the adventure of scouting.  

I know the boys that come into our troop and I see the men that come out.  Looking at them, I have no doubt about the next 50 years.

When I do a lightweight backpacking class for new scouts and adults (even those that backpacked as kids) I tell the adults that in addition to lightening the weight in their backpack they need to try to lose weight in the front pack.

Even though I'm at a relatively healthy weight, my office chair is trying to kill me.  I've started walking a mile and a half each morning just to keep the my back, knees and legs in shape.  I did over 50 miles of hiking and backpacking with the boys last summer and have another 50 miles planned for the end of this summer.  I can't keep up with the 16 year olds who run cross country but I hold my own.  That being said, my goal is to lose 10 pounds by the end of the summer to be down to 175 pounds.  

Our troop is fortunate, we've got a bunch of adult leaders who can do the high adventure stuff and who love doing it.

The Patrol Leader's Council (PLC) decides on a theme for the month.  Each patrol is responsible for planning the troop portion of the meeting for one week during the month.  

Opening - Scouts do Flag Ceremony wiht Pledge, Oath and Law

Announcements - Senior Patrol Leader makes announcements regarding outings, service activities, merit badge opportunities and other administrative issues.

Patrol Breakouts - Patrols go to separate rooms.  Patrols are mixed age based on the boys decision.  The patrol breakouts usually start with a game (silent ball is pretty much the default), brainstorm about what they are going to do for their week when they have to run the troop portion of the meeting.  Patrol Leaders, Assistant Patrol Leaders and the Troop Guide assigned to the patrol will go over things such as the meaning of the oath and law, knots, scout skills.

Troop Activity - Each patrol runs the activty that is related to the theme.  They usually build something, teach scout skills or have a contest.  Then they play a game.

Closing - SPL brings everyone into a circle, there are reminders (upcomming events) and then an opportunity to tell jokes and then we close the meeting.

Our monthly themes and outings are selected by the PLC in September and January.  We have four patrols and each patrol is responsible for running the Troop portion of the meeting each month in conjunction with the selected theme.  I think that the planning meetings take longer and it makes sense to have those at a time and place where you aren't rushed.

PLC meetings are the first Tuesday of the month before the regular troop meetings.  PLC meetings are mostly evaluation of how things went in the past month and idea sharing for the next month so there isn't any overlap in the weekly programming.  That portion of the agenda is handled by the SPL.  After that, the SPL asks if the adults have anything they want to discuss (typically the SM, the CC and 1 to 3 ASMs are in attendance).  Those discussions tend to be adults bringing ideas to the PLC for their consideration (e.g. the local fire department has offered to do CPR / First Aid training -- is this something you want to do and if so, who would be responsible for making the arrangements? or We've received a request for scouts to help out at an event, is this something you wnat to do).  Occasionally, they include adult concerns put forth for consideration of how to address them by the PLC.

But yeah, one wishes there were more enclaves where one could avoid the craziness of modern culture.  

Honestly, it is called Scouting.  Spending a weekend sleeping out in the wilderness, cooking over a propane stove, seeing boys of all ages get along because they live the Scout Law, observing what happens when there are no electronic devices to play with, watching boys do things they never thought they would do, sitting around a campfire exploring the lost arts of conversation and story telling, noticing the joy of kids playing with fire and knives, seeing how kids with helecopter parents function perfectly fine without them and truly enjoying letting boys be boys. 

Now my prior post really begs the question... how do the older guys learn how to do things right?  The answer should be that another older scout taught them, but that isn't always the case.  

My thinking on this is a lot like Stosh's -- curriosity.  For fires, I have a bag of different tinders and ignition sources.  Toss it to the older scouts and they want to try all the different methods.  Take those guys out in the winter and they want to have a fire starting contest in the snow.  I also carry a bushcraft knife.  They see me batoning wood, they all want to try.  As a result, every scout knows that when wood is wet on the outside, it is dry on the inside.  For dinners, the adult patrol eats really good.  It only takes a couple of times until the older guys are glad to work with the younger guys (who do the planning and cooking for First Class) to make better food.

What is missing here is what happened before...  My sense is that there should be a discussion with the PL early on about what tasks need to be done and who is going to do them.  My line to the PLs is that they are not supposed to do everything, but to help their guys to do everything.  They help the boys do what they need to do by coaching and advising and the boys help the PL by getting the job done.  

So the discussion would go like this.  

Hedgehog:  So what is the patrol doing after dinner?

PL:  We're having a big campfire.

Hedgehog:  Who is going to set up the fire?

PL:  I can do it.

Hedgehog:  You job isn't to do everything for the boys, but to lead them so they can take care of everything.

PL:  OK, how about the new guys, they would like to do that.

Hedgehog:  Do they know how to start a fire?

PL:  I can tell them what to do.

Hedgehog:  Are there any other older scouts that can do that?

PL:  Yeah, Bobby and Tommy can supervise.

Hedgehog:  Supervise sounds like telling them what to do.  Is that what they should do?

PL:  I meant to say "coach" or maybe "teach"

Hedgehog:  So what are next steps?

PL:  I'll go talk to Bob and Tom and tell them what they need to do with the new scouts.

Hedgehog:  I'm getting my coffee and my chair.  I'll be over there if you need me.

Indoctrination.  Anytime I get the chance, I give the pitch about how great a boy-led troop is.  We tell the Cubs when they visit that we are boy led and they are responsible.  The SPL takes the visiting Cub Scout parents aside and explains boy-led.  Every parent that hangs around meetings watching, I tell them how a boy-led troop works.  Every time a parent comes on a campout, I tell them why boy-led is important.  Every parent who becomes a leader gets trained in the "coffee cup and chair" management method.  Every decision that the adults want to make, I tell them that we should have the PLC make the decision.  Every time a new scout asks me a question, I point out that it says "Boy Scouts of America" on my uniform but I'm not a boy and tell them they should ask a boy leader because they are in charge.  Everytime a boy leader comes to me and asks me if they can do something, I tell them as long as it isn't illegal or against G2SS, its their decision.  The patrols and adults camp as far apart as possible on campouts.  Everytime I see another adult telling a scout to do something, I tell them that I will mention it to the Patrol Leader because it is the Patrol Leader's responsibility, not the adults'responsibility.  

This week, I had two new parents come up to me and tell me how much fun their boys had on their first Boy Scout campout.  One parent said that their son loves Boy Scouts and said "it is so much cooler than Cub Scouts.  In Cub Scouts the parents were teaching everything.  Here, the boy are in charge and it is so much more fun."  Parents always tell me about how their sons come back from the campouts so excited and so proud of how independent they can be.  Parents see how boy-led empowers the boys.

It is amazing what happens when you make it clear to everyone that the boys are in charge.

What I am asking is for you guys to give your favorite camp meal recipe. From just of the fire to Dutch oven to foil meal extra I do like to eat !!!!

On every campout, my guys do baked Dutch Oven penne pasta.  Very simple.  Put in a liner.  Pour in a pound of uncooked penne pasta (the new guys are always amazed that you don't have to cook the pasta first).  Add a jar of sauce and a jar of water.  Cover and cook around 30 minutes.  Stir the pasta, add motzarella cheese on top and cook for 5 to 10 minutes more.  The guys serve it with meatballs (frozen meatballs in sauce in a pot or a dutch oven) or italian sausages (grilled over coals or a fire or cooked in a cast iron frying pan.  

OK, now I'm really hungry.

Besides the usual bland ingredients, my other reasons for dislike are that it is very hard to get them sealed, and we are always dealing with at least a few that have either torn or pulled open.... or folks use cheap/thin foil..... &/or they burn horribly and stick.

The key is the foil and using the right method for folding.  If you have cheap foil, you have to use two layers.  The folding starts on the long side and you fold down  around a quarter inch and then fold the fold over itself several sides.  Then you take the ends and bring them to the middle and fold down where they meet the same way.  The packet can be turned half-way through without it leaking.

Last weekend, I taught the patrol grubmaster how to do the folding.  He taught his patrol how to do it as they cooked dinner.  Included canned potatoes (lots of moisture) and carrots with some salt and pepper.  Mine was delicious and the rest of the boys had nice juicy burgers (or veggie burgers if that was their preference).

This recipe also works in a 9"x13" cake pan in a regular oven.  Which is a clue.  Any thing that can be prepared in a 9"x13" cake pan can be done by splitting into 2 9" pie pans in 2 Dutch ovens. 

My guys love chocolate layer cake with vanilla icing and red velvet cake with cream cheese icing.  Two DO's, two cakes stacked with frosting in the middle and on top.  Have done apple pies that same way using a glass pie plate -- two ready made crusts, canned apple filling and a couple of pats of butter.

Where are the People posting the Hiked 2000 Miles over the Mountain Uphill both ways type of Trips? 

http://www.backpackinglight.com

http://www.trails.com

http://www.whiteblaze.net