jumpyg

The problem is we are doing the older program. Is doing the new program his best option?

I'm the DL for our Webelos II den. The boys all achieved their Webelos rank in 4th grade and all of them have enough badges for AOL, and we are just working on earning additional badges and the additional AOL requirements. We are working on the old program track still, and we plan to award the AOL and bridge the boys over to a troop in mid-March.

So now I am told by the CM that there is a new fifth grader who would like to join. I don't want to discourage the parents, but I would like to give them a realistic idea of what would be required. Is it possible to earn the AOL starting now? Does the boy need to earn the Webelos badge first, or just start with AOL?

Life just got more interesting!

Appreciate your thoughts, thanks.

Hi all,

Recently my den moved from Bear to Webelos, and all of the boys upgraded to the khaki shirt. With the blue shirt, the yellow denner cords work great - they have a "tab" that kind of looks like an epaulet, and there is an integrate pin to attach the whole thing to the boys' shoulder.

Now, with the Webelos uniform, the cords can go under the epaulet, but then you have the tab with no place to really go.

Any idea on how this is supposed to work?

Thanks!

Get a big Coleman for your family, that will be fine.

For your husband and son to use more frequently, I suggest a good 3- or 4-man tent from REI. If you get a membership, there are 25% off coupons several times per year. Get the footprint for the specific tent, too. Yes, these tents are more expensive but they will absolutely hold up better and keep you dryer when it inevitably rains.

I HATED the beads--boys would lose them, 2/3rds of the parents would not put them on, folks upset that their kid didn't get one, still finding them all over the house years later. I swear one Tiger Den I must have given out an average of 3 sets per boy.

 

It is always fun to hear the beads rolling across the floor at a pack meeting! The boys love to fiddle with them, and the plastic strings do not secure them very well, with predictable results.

As a leader, keeping track of whether or not the boys had the correct number of beads was tedious. Belt loops, pins, and patches are what my boys seem to covet.

Try to pick achievements that you haven't done previous years. There is a lot of overlap between ranks on certain subjects. I love the flexibility that Bear year offers in that respect.

Definitely do the Whittling Chip. The boys will love that. Be advised that the official Cub Scout knife with rubber grip is very difficult for the boys to close themselves. I would not buy those again.

In our pack, almost every boy gets the tan shirt for Webelos, so earning a lot of arrow points that won't transfer over seemed like a waste. Instead, after earning rank, we focused on earning the (now defunct) Leave No Trace award, Cyber Chip, and another district-specific award. Having the whole den on stage during a pack meeting getting an award that no everyone achieves was special for the boys.

We wear Class A uniforms to all den and pack meetings. If doing certain outdoor things, we may wear class Bs.

SCOUTGRIPPER ... I can respect what you are saying and though we share the same scouting universe, our realities are different. Everything I listed is an issue in my area.

 

"go find an atheist organization" ... That attitude is killing BSA. Life is not clean cut. Many families have been alienated from churches and a specific faith. Many teenagers experiment with atheism. BSA was once the pre-eminent youth organization. Now, we can't recruit from schools and BSA is viewed negatively by many.

 

"BSA v. Dale" was properly decided by the US Supreme Court, but triggered by a bad BSA decision. It's killing BSA membership. It's killing BSA endowments. It's killing BSA good will.

 

We need to get out of the political debates. And when we tell people to go find another organization, that's exactly what they do and many others too.

 

BSA needs to get back to scouting and get out of the political debates.

BSA is never going to be popular among the people you're trying to please. As soon as BSA admits gay leaders, and drops all references to god, then people are going to start questioning all of the native american symbolism. That will be next on the chopping block.

Shooting BB guns, rifles, shotguns?? What does that teach kids about violence? And so on. There is very little to the BSA program, other than maybe recycling, that would please a liberal mindset.

Our pack participates in the town's Memorial Day parade. Takes about two hours. Attendance is fairly light with many people out of town for the weekend.

I think the story goes something like this. Ethan did not practice good camping skills and left food out. Akela terrorized the Scout Ranch and he had to be put down. This saddened Ethan greatly and he was determined to become the Best Scout Ever. Unfortunately his pack could not afford the new belt loops' date=' so that is why he is not wearing any.[/quote']

 

HAA!

You are right since I know the current Webelos and AoL it is pretty easy for me to skim the new program and compare in my mind.

High level (hope this helps)

-cast iron - is most of the old fitness (which was nutrition, drugs, alcohol) with the building a fire and cooking from outdoorsman. The only real addition is food prep saftey.

-first responder = readyman

-stronger faster higher = athlete

-Walkabout = parts of naturalist, outdoorsman and LNT. Althought the wording has changed enough that there quite a few differences it would be harder to line up 1 for 1

- better world = citizen

-Camper - Outdoorsmans with the addition of GPS

-Scouting adventure = These are the non activity pins stuff from the existing AoL (learning the boy scout stuff). There is a few more things with the new one.

-Adventure in science = Scientist although the experiments look different

-Aquanaut = Aquanaut changed the row boat to a canoe and they must take the BSA swim test (they do not need to pass) in the old one you had an option if you pass but no credit just for taking

-Art explosion = Artist the main change is instead of meeting with an professional artist and discussing jobs in art it was replaced with going to a muesum

Aware and care = this seems new

-Build it = seesm like a watered down craftsman

-Hero = this seems new

-Castaway = this seems new

-earth rocks = geologist although the experiments are not the same

-Engineer = Engineer although the experiements do not line up 9I like the old ones better)

- fix it = handyman most of the stuff alligns althogh the new one has a lot more options

- game design = looks new

-into the wild = this appears to be a combination of forrester and naturalist

- into the woods = parts of forrester with additions

- looking back = looks new

- maestro = a watered down version of showman

- Moviemaking = this new

- Project Family = Family member the new one looks better. The old one pretty much turns into doing chores. The new one has a little of that but it also has learning about their heritage

- Sportsman = sportsman

 

Gone are: Scholar and communicator

 

What is also gone (after a quick skim) are the requirements to meet with the engineer, artist, scientist etc. Although they have been replaced with going the muesums etc. I don't know how i feel about this. It makes it easier on the den leader than finding someone to come in and speak to the scouts, but in my observations the scouts liked hearing from someone other than their parents and the den leader. I also thought that it helps prepare them for when they will meed to be working with MB counselors.

Thanks! This is a big help!

I will add that Aware and Care is close to the Disabilities Awareness belt loop and pin.

The more I think about it and look at it the less I have an issue with it (disclosure it doesn't impact me or my son. My son will be a Web 2 next year so he will finish under the old program). But if it did impact us I would compare citizen and building a better world I would only do the stuff that was missing in building a better world. I would also either complete readyman their first year or make sure I cover first responder their 2nd.

 

It appears that you can count activities completed under the old program as electives under the new program. (In my mind that could justify marking off a lot of building a better world).

 

I looked at it last night, and there really isn't that much overlap between the current Citizen badge and the new Building a Better World, so I'm not as worried about that.

I am also planning on covering Readyman next year and have that count for one of the new AOL electives.

What gets me is that our boys will have half old style pins, and half new ones.

I just don't understand what the harm would have been in allowing a transition year for current Bears.

Again' date=' back to page 32 of the Webelos handbook: "The colors are pinned to the right shirt sleeve just below the U.S. flag. The colors will cover the den emblem and Quality Unit insignia." Den emblem = patrol patch, so your patrol patch will be covered.[/quote']

Thanks, I missed this the first time you posted it. That is pretty clear!

 

I think they need a couple more illustrations and this would be easier to understand. I also think it's inconsistent that in the case of den number, the colors go below that, but in the case of a patrol patch, the colors go above that. With no illustrations or photos, one wonders if this inconsistency is intentional. Hmm.

 

To qwazse, no drama involved, I just want to do it right. With no clear illustration from BSA, it is confusing. Our Cubmaster, an eagle scout and very up on things, also thought the colors went under the patrol patch. I am creating a photoshopped picture to help parents with patch placement, and I wanted to make sure I was getting it right. Once the patrol patch is sewn on, that's it!

 

Our council recently had a Spring Fun Day in a neighboring district. They were selling old patches for 3/$1. My son picked up a few and I bought him a few. Doesn't take long before you have quite a few patches!

I don't think our pack was using them much, so I bought cords for a Denner and Asst. Denner for my den. A few months later, I started noticing other dens picking up the practice.

We charge $28, and that gets them a Boys Life sub, neckerchief/slide and handbook. Subsequent years, they get a new neckerchief/slide.

Then we sell popcorn and wreaths. Boys need to sell about $250 worth, or their parents can pay a buyout of $125 or so.

Pack pays for belt loops/pins, and pretty much all of the patches that can be earned. There are some district patches that are paid for at the den level.

The transition document clearly states these Bears are not going to be able to finish under the old requirements. This is nuts. Well it looks like they could do Readyman 1st year as an elective and have it count for AOL. I am not going to do Citizenship twice.

I am in the same boat with my son's Bear den.

It's a little weird that our Webelos will have pins from the old program and the new on their Webelos colors. Very odd that we aren't grandfathered in.

It looks like every rank requires earning the Cyber Chip, correct? Not sure I agree with this. My den earned it this past year, and it is certainly useful. I understand the curriculum changes for grades 4-5, so it would be fine to earn it again to learn new things. However, having to earn it in both grades 4 and 5, with the same requirements, is overkill. Luckily this won't apply for my den, but it will be a problem in the future.

While I'm not a fan of the progress beads, I wish they were coming up with a better way of tracking achievements than belt loops. The current academics and sports belt loops and pins are very popular in our pack. I suspect that's true in packs who pay for these. In packs where the parents buy them, probably not as popular. Everybody I have talked to is disappointed that this program is going away.

The new belt loop system will result in all the boys having the same loops. No more showing off that rare belt loop that most kids don't earn.

Something that seems to draw attention is to mount representatives of pack or troop events on a board for meeting place display. Of course' date=' the history of the unit is enhanced should you be fortunate enough to have some longevity, but even a short period is of interest. Our troop is over ninety years old, and we have met the same place since 1928; our meeting rooms are small museums. But you have to start someplace if history is of importance. The rest, use one or more of the the ideas noted already; cubs tend to like the patches more than scouts, other than the older OA collectors. We do not have OA stuff on the boards though.[/quote']

 

This is a great idea! That will get rid of at least a few patches.

You can turn in unused patches that are sold via the Scout Store back to the Scout Store. They will issue you a credit on a gift card. I turned in $300 worth. I heard later there was a lady who came in and turned in $800.

 

I did it after being a CM for 4 years. I had a lot of patches...

That's a good idea, but these all have the year on them, so the stores will not take those back.

Thanks for the perspective.

Any idea what to do with the mountain of old patches the pack has?

Jumpy,

Biggest problem I see with placing the Tricolors beneath a patrol medallion is that the colors will be so low, they will hang beneath the elbow.

Thanks for the history, Eagle! That is interesting.

I agree with your point here. My problem with putting the colors over the patrol medallion is that the boys picked a fairly unique mascot (Griffin) and I bet they don't want to cover it up! But yeah, then they will hang down a LITTLE lower. Should be less than an inch difference, though.

Hi all, just wondering if any packs/troops have any kind of event for trading patches.

The pack tends to accumulate extra patches from events from overbuying or people not showing up, etc. I was wondering what to do with them, and thought maybe we could somehow distribute them to the boys and encourage them to start trading patches. Our council had a patch "Trade-O-Ree" that was well attended by wheelers/dealers from all over the country. My son really liked trading/buying patches and displays them in a binder.

This ties in with the Collecting belt loop/pin as well.

Anybody have experience or ideas?

Having some Boy Scouts in uniform (if possible schedule wise) is good. Also water bottle rockets or stomp rockets' date=' etc. A sample campsite with a tent gets them excited as well. We used to have a dumbed down FAQ for prospective Tiger parents since a lot of them were intimidated with the prospect of camping, lack of skills, perceptions of danger, etc. We also stressed the hands on aspects and that it ws not school--that appealed to certain parents.[/quote']

 

What we do is a brief slide show about all the FUN events we do. The cubmaster will have rockets, pinewood derby cars, etc. on hand as well. Then the boys get split off and go to the gym with a few parents/Cub Scouts in uniform. They learn to play marbles and get their first belt loop on the spot. A snack is also a good idea.

 

While this is happening, parents are filling out forms and being asked to volunteer. Works pretty well.

If they are the Sports and Academic pins that Cubs earn after getting their belt loop' date=' they go on a yellow C that is worn on the red vest. If some has an older Insignia Guide, like 1980s or 90s, I think the letter could also go on the red jacket as well, just like the Varsity/Venture Letter.[/quote']

 

Yep, my son has his pins on the "C" which my wife sewed to his red brag vest.

 

I'm glad he got the chance to earn some before the program goes away. They are VERY popular with our den. I think the designs are pretty cool.

JumpyG,

 

Nope, the Inspection sheet is not lacking. The Webelos "Den Emblem," which is a patrol medallion, is either not worn, or worn underneath the tricolors as they were called in my day.

 

Here is the Guide to Insignia link on the matter, and check out page 19 of the actual book.

 

As others have stated, they are the 'Cobra Den" not patrol.

 

The insignia guide states:

"Webelos colors, red, yellow, and green tabs, No. 452; pack option for wear by Webelos Scouts, right sleeve, under and touching U.S. flag. If den number is worn, under and touching den number. With either option, colors cover Journey to Excellence insignia. If colors are worn, activity badges are worn on the tabs."

So this is clear that if a "Den 10" strip is worn, the colors go underneath. The patrol patch is used in place of "Den 10" strip, correct? So it would stand to reason that the colors would go underneath that patrol patch.

One more picture or a few more words in the guide would make this crystal clear. Where do I send in a suggestion?