WisconsinMomma

Hi Everyone,

My 14 year old First Class scout son was invited and voted into OA from our Troop.  From what I heard, many scouts from our Troop were elected into OA.  

My husband's attitude (and son's) out of the gate was -- it's just more work.

However, I was talking with another Scouter who said that when he was a youth he never had the opportunity and it's special.  So he should at least go to the Ordeal?  He also said that whole families can end up in OA and with 3 boys, it's possible they could all be in together, in time. 

How can we help infom and/or encourage our son?  Thanks!

This may sound bad but just because an adult or youth turns in a medical form, it doesn't mean that they get read in detail.  Obviously, if someone has an important medical condition, they will also communicate that beyond the health form.  But I've never sat and read 40 people's detailed health histories. Why would I?  But if something happens and an ambulance comes, the paperwork can be grabbed and sent to the hospital with the patient. Or, in an emergency situation, the paperwork gets pulled out and referenced. Otherwise, I would stick the forms in a manila folder upon arrival and return them on departure. 

Does that make sense?  

On 3/9/2019 at 9:41 AM, FireStone said:

Tiger burns kids out on Cubs but many still make it all the way through. Lions will kill enthusiasm for Cubs by the time these kids are in 3rd or 4th grade. Parents? They'll be done even earlier. 

 

Ths is an interesting point of view.  I wonder how we can identify people interested in Scouting in Kindergarten and First grade, and provide some cool stuff, outdoor activities, etc., without the drag of requirements and boring meetings. 

If we're talking about women doing their best to prove themselves alongside men, here is a fantastic example from hockey.  She was not the fastest, but she was competitive with elite men's hockey skaters.  That said, she's an Olympic Gold Medalist already.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-all-star-skills-competition-mcdavid-coyne-1.4993845

And, she was given a job with NBC because of her high performance.  
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2019/01/28/kendall-coyne-schofield-olympian-all-star-nbc-analyst/2704810002/

This is very cool.  

From the second article:

Coyne said when she received the call that she would compete in the NHL All-Star Skills Competition as a replacement for injured Colorado Avalanche forward Nathan MacKinnon, “it put chills down my back.”

“I knew it was going to break down a lot of barriers and open a lot of eyes,” she said. “I was super excited for the opportunity. I know there was a lot of people who worked really hard to make that moment possible. I didn’t think it would (lead to) this opportunity, but I knew it would be a historic moment and it would change perceptions about women’s hockey.”

I love it when people get well-deserved opportunities!

I posted this in its own thread, but here is a news story about a large all-girls Troop in Wisconsin.  It's a pretty nice article.  It does refer to the girls paying attention and being enthusiastic about learning.   That's not so bad.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/mukwonago-home-to-one-of-nations-biggest-all-girls-scouts-bsa-troops

Here's a news story about all-girls Troop 229

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/mukwonago-home-to-one-of-nations-biggest-all-girls-scouts-bsa-troops?fbclid=IwAR0KD4Hau1YLJSIR2b2SkpyA4vZo3wjV6qPGreAuYfQII0ZiO4UjynyJAxY

Hi Scouters,

I am writing an article on disabilities awareness as my final portion of my Wood Badge ticket.  It's almost done, but I'd love to get some extra eyes on the content and get your feedback if possible.  I'll be wrapping this up within the next day or two.  Thank you!  Karen

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zghby3d5MpfK0JLUipzHwZBbLiMdX-WV8Qg-DE9dshM/edit?usp=sharing

Go with him!   Go with him and make some memories.  At camp, don't let him velcro to you, he can go off with the other Scouts but see you back for whenever the adult leaders and youth are in proximity -- meals?  (I don't know, I have not been to summer camp yet). But be there, but when you are there he has his own schedule and stuff, and you have your own stuff.  

Talk to the counselor and the Scoutmaster about it.  Your son should be working with his patrol leader and that kid will be the point person for your son at camp, NOT you. 

I hope that helps!  

After his first time he may be much more comfortable.  

Love this topic and can't wait to come back and read all the responses!

Last year, one of our Cub Scout little sisters proudly told me that she was in girl scouts. The next thing out of her mouth was, "we're selling cookies!"  I was hoping to hear about other activities.

Also, two years ago, I planned to buy a box every time someone asked me.   That got way out of hand!  

Our troop would rent Girl Scout camps out, but now they are not allowed to, and it hurts the GSUSA camps because now they're not getting our money.

There are camps on beautiful pieces of property and I worry that they'll eventually get turned into subdivisions.  Ew.  

8 hours ago, jsychk said:

Sadly, I see more and more dads are like that now. I don't know why. Almost 10 years, most of our Pack leaders were male/dads. If there's a female/mom, it's ONLY because her husband is in the military overseas or she is a single mom. Now, our Pack has a few moms whose husbands are around but never step up to volunteer or be the leaders. 

 

Something is up with younger generations doing less volunteering.  That said, we do have helicopter parents, and free-range parents, so I'm not sure what's going on.  But the trend is on.  I think there is less of a civic duty to volunteering and community involvement than there used to be.  People move around more and spend more time online, so less time out in their neighborhoods.  Not much we can do except be the change we want to see in the world.  Good luck with your Scouting adventure and thanks for all you have done for the Cubs!!

9 hours ago, jsychk said:

Actually, the former leader in your troop sounds like our "victim's" mother. My son said the mother would tell the scouts where to put their tents during a dispute among the scouts (including her son). My son thought it's their job to figure things out on their own. It sounds like if something doesn't go in the kid's way, he would go to his mother and his mother would interfere. Apparently, other scouts don't like it. Also, my son mentioned that the kid  has special need so maybe the mother tries to shelter him even more. I am not sure if this is true or not, but my son came home and told me many stories like these. I didn't interfere because 1) my husband was in charge of his scouting business; 2) I think my son should see different kinds of parents & learn how to handle them. 3) This does not cause any physical harm. 

2

Based on what you are saying, I would suggest go visiting with other Troops in your area to make your life easier.  Your son can find a new group of buddies to hang with and he will learn and grow more in a real patrol environment.

Barry, I can't even have a conversation with you when you're going down the path of saying that I'm over-sensitive, you're logical, and I'm too inexperienced to understand completely how men and women are different.   I don't think you realize how patronizing those comments are.

It's tough -- basic safety is important, but the kids need some room.  Different people have very different tolerances for what is acceptable.  The word that jumps out to me in your paragraph above is "punish".  Giving instruction and setting boundaries is different from punishment.  I don't know if tree climbing is covered in BSA guidelines, but I can understand that it could be a safety hazard.  

Some people take it too far.  One of the former leaders in our troop that I did not get along with corrected my son for sliding his feet on an icy patch on the ground.  He was 12.  We said that it was micromanaging our son.  He claimed that our son could have gotten a concussion and brain damage if he fell.  I felt that that person wanted to bubble wrap my kid, and he was not SM or ASM (he was a my-way-only CC).  It was not his job to manage our son.  He got all huffy about safety, though.  Sliding on a little patch of ice!  

Different points of view, for sure.  You'll have to feel it out.

Also, I do not get a lot of info from my husband or sons on Boy Scouts.  It is frustrating and it took me a year to find a balance with learning how the troop works, and working out basic communication with my husband.  However, my spouse goes on all the trips and is an ASM so he is plugged in, I just don't get much of a download.  Your husband might be totally hands off and let the boy learn his own way.  That can work, but sometimes the kids need support.  

42 minutes ago, David CO said:

You say that your husband may have Asperger's. So, he might not. We don't know. Asperger's is very difficult to diagnose in adults. Either way, your husband is still the boys' father and cannot be replaced. Scouting is not about finding a replacement for Dad.

I sounds like you and your husband disagree. You need to work this out between the two of you. 

 

OK, the son needs some support navigating a difficult situation, and for whatever reason, Dad is not that interested or involved, so Mom is going to help out.  Of course the kid still has a dad.  But if the kid wants to do Scouting and Dad isn't interested, then he will form other relationships with other Scouters.  

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Wow! Some of the last few post are kind of scary. To answer your question, call the SM first to learn exactly where the troop is with your son. Then you can discuss better the future.

Barry

+1  You call the Scoutmaster and get the update on what exactly happened and where things stand for your son's membership in the Troop at this point in time.   I would tell the Scoutmaster that my son would like to continue his membership if possible, and that at this point in time, you (mom) are the main contact for your family.  See what he says, and go from there.  Offer to talk through any concerns and a process for your son to come back under good terms.  Try to make friends with the Scoutmaster and ask if they need any adult volunteers to help out -- so you can find a place in the Troop where you can network with other families and make more friends and a supportive community. If the Scoutmaster is resistant and does not welcome your son back, then go to Plan B and go start meeting with other Troops.

Good luck! 

Our pack has nearly  no rules for PWD.  You make a car and we give out rough measurements for what will fit on the track.  Hopefully, all the cars fit on the track and we make onsite modifications and repairs if cars are presented that won't make it down the track.  We give fastest and second fastest in each Den awards, as well as best Design in each den awards, and everybody gets a small trophy with their name on it.  Yes, we spend a lot on trophies.  It works for us.  We now have a batch of new parents who seem more rules-oriented, so that might evolve, but for my kids' duration in the pack, it's all about just seeing the car you made run the race. 

5 hours ago, thrifty said:

our pack always had old spare pw cards in the closet.  anyone that didn't want to keep their car could donate it to the cause.  these served as examples to new cubs/parents and were also used as family participation cars after the cub races were over.  my 30yo+ cars are part of that collection so they still get run on occasion.  Kindness is important but compromising the rules for an individual when everyone else followed them can lead to problems.  Our pack always had a few days when cubs with no tools at home or a parent that couldn't help would be able to come in and get their cars ready.

OK, imagine you are a 9 year old and your parents just had a nasty split brewing for who knows how many years, and you have a car you made with your Dad who is no longer around, and you and your Dad built this beautiful car together.  I imagine, it's a treasure to you.   Some adult tells you to take someone else's leftover car?   No.  That is for a kid whose family didn't have the time or resources to make anything and got caught unprepared.  In our experience, this kid's car was slower the 2nd year because it wasn't tuned up or anything.  But he had his cool car and I imagine and hope he has some happy memories of building that car. 

Pinewood derby is for the kids, not the parents, so the main concern should be -- are the kids having a good time?  Are they being good sports? 

4 hours ago, MattR said:

However, there's an aspect of this saga that has nothing to do with this. Namely, why in the world did the SM let these parents take over the troop? Granted I did not read a lot of the many threads that compromise this story and I may be missing something, but it just goes and goes and goes. I had a dad that was at least as obnoxious as these parents and I ran him off. It took a month but it worked. And so did 2 other SM's. The council eventually told him his son had to be in lone scouts.

 

I think what makes a troop vulnerable is when they are light on leadership manpower (heh, heh) and the new folks waltz in.  Strong personalities can overpower the existing leadership.  Remember that thread with the CC where a parent just showed up in uniform and started acting like he ran the place?   It can get crazy out there. 

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Ok, I’m sure you’re right. But when I meet a new mom in the troop, I’m 100 % sure she doesn’t have any Boy Scout youth experience.

 

This is not necessarily true, either.  You can be sure she doesn't have formal BSA experience, but...  take my friend, the daughter of a Montana forester, grew up in the outdoors, whose younger brother was in Scouts and she was always around.  Now, does she know everything?  No.  Does she know some things?  Absolutely.  Nobody knows everything.  I mean, if someone does know everything, they might be unteachable.   My friend certainly has a lot to offer.  

I know a family where the mom and dad had a horrific breakup.  The dad and son had worked on an incredible car the year before, and the boy ran it twice.  I don't know if he had any chance to do another car the next year.   Sometimes it's good to put kindness first and not get to picky about the circumstances. 

It's "teachable female" that I'm taking issue with, as if, that's a rare combo.   Perhaps I misunderstood the intent, but I've noted here that moms often get complained about, and --- they're part of the program too!   Yes, I am nitpicking, but, I really don't want moms in general to have a bad rap in the BSA.

12 hours ago, qwazse said:

If there's a teachable female ASM out their. Encourage your buddy to take the leap.

There are plenty of teachable females out there!  Let's not let a few difficult parents dissuade anyone from making new Scouting friends.   And I should take issue with the word "teachable" too -- how about -- females who are new to Scouting and interested in the program??

We really need to be careful just because some moms (and dads) are difficult, we don't generalize that all moms (or dads) who ever ask a question, want to participate, or haven't learned the ways of Scouting yet are terrible people.

Did the person ask you directly?  In email?  Face to face?  Through someone else? 

I think that short and vague is the way to go, if you choose to reply at all.   Something like, 

"My family has had X great years with Troop XYZ. Recently we've had struggles with campouts and other activities. (or other brief but not-too-specific or accusatory phrase of your choice) It was a difficult decision, especially with our long history and many friends in the troop, but it was the right time for us to move on and we are satisfied with that decision.  We wish everyone in Troop XYZ all the best. " 

"Recently we've struggled with some issues related to the patrol method, advancement, and camping"