DuctTape

Travel distance is an issue too. Not just driving, but if the patrol is doing more than just car camping, it might take 3-4 hrs to hike back to the cars.

I agree with Fred that the bsa focus and recruitment strategy is flawed. I agree that focusing on getting them younger and pushing eveything down to younger ages is counter productive. I disagree however with some of the other points. Marketing is non-existent, and the real focus is wrong headed as far as the boys are concerned. Fred doesnt address the lack of real marketing, and the focus on values/character will not appeal to the boys. While I agree that character is of high importance, it isnt a selling point to boys.

Long ago bsa used to market itself directly to boys selling the outdoor adventure. Boys life was full of tales of these adventures. Articles written by experts on how to make gear, ideas of how scouting skills were used in these adventures. The reading of others going on adventure was not limited to BL. Bsa also commissioned/published/allowed other books. These were fictional stories of patrols and their adventures and how they got started in scouting, etc... There was a strategy of saturation of the adventure narratives. Today this barely exists. With all of bsa's resources, why arent there countless youtube videos, vines, instagram, snapchat, etc... of scouting adventures? Since these do not exist except and unless they are done at the local level, I submit the bsa has zero marketing. The fact they talk about recruitment is case in point. They ask local areas to recruit because national doesnt market. Imagine if there were modern versions of the old bsa print publications ( modern videos) showcasing the fun and adventure of everyday scouting? The boys would come to us. Of course we would still have to deliver.

One way to encourage more nutritious meals is through sm conferences and sm minutes. At sm conference... Keeping oneself physically strong -- ask the scout how his food choices helps or hinders in this regard. For a SM minute spin a yarn about an adventure where the group that ate simple sugars didnt have the energy to continue on and had to miss out on the best part while the patrol who ate a well balanced meal had the energy and stamina to continue on. Good nutrition = more fun.

I use these approaches instead of arbitrary rules. I want them to make better choices not just at campouts, but in the school cafeteria, at home, etc...

I do similar as stosh, but since almost all of my trips are miles from a car, carrying a dutch oven and charcoal is a non-starter. Can still cook a heckuva meal using just a campfire and one or two pots/pans at most. Did a full on thanksgiving dinner (boneless turkey parts so no bones in trash) in aluminum foil buried in hot ash/coals. But in the end if they boys want to eat bratwurst again, should the adults interfere? Perhaps one boy wants to be the patrol chef and kick it up a notch. But if not? Do we let the boys decide or not?

Not sure if you multiply it, or if it's a exponential function.

 

I eas thinking the same thing.

Welcome. Pull up a seat and grab a cuppa.

Was it John Muir who said something to the effect of,I just hop the fence with a loaf a bread and a bag of tea and go off on adventure.

Does the latest version of the scout handbook, fieldbook, or pl handbook have sample menus? I know all of my older versions do. In fact I am having fun re-creating some of the older recipes we used way back when. These are the on-the-move menus, not base camp. No dutch ovens or coolers or stoves.

Then you are an outlier.  Studies have consistently shown athletes have better grades, on average, in season than they do out of season.  That's because of the increased emphasis need on time management.

 

Top 10% in ACT testing, but bottom half of school is not the fault of participating in sports.  There was something else at play there.

While I concur with the statistics regarding student athletes and grades. As a professional educator, I would disagree with the assertion it is due to emphasis on time management. As a statistician, I would caution against any statement as to the reason without further analysis. There are many co-variables which would need to be isolated. To claim that time management is the root cause for the success of student athletes is inconclusive in the studies and in my experience not valid. If I were to suggest a further analysis  to determine as to why student athletes seem to get better grades, I would suggest one look at the extracurricular guidelines in the schools. Most have some sort of academic eligibility requirement. This suggests that it isn't athletics which helps with grades, but that those with poor grades are unable to participate fully in athletics. The same studies which show correlation between academic achievement and athletics also show a correlation between academic achievement and music. Sociologists have argued that since the phenomenon isn't isolated to specific extracurriicular activities, the increased academic achievement is due to the student's acceptance of school and its culture. Those who participate in extracurriculars identify with the school. Those who eschew school in general have lower academic performance and also do not participate in extra-curriculars. I suppose my point is to caution against claiming the reason for the correlation as fact.

Shug is fun and interesting, good musician too.

All activities expect a committment of some sort. The claim from coaches that the committment to the team must supercede all other committments is selfish and doesnt focus on the kids and what should be the fundamental priority. Musical directors say the same thing about committment, in scouts we do as well... The committment to your patrol. It is adult needs which put the extraneous pressure on the kids to havevthe 100% committment. What the adults are really saying is "the activity I advise is more important than the others". IMO, most teams, bands, dramatic peosuctions, patrols, etc.. would be totally fine if kids missed practice every once in a while. They might actually have more fun too if the adults stopped trying to make their event equivalent to the world series, cuz it just isnt.

I have been camping in a hammock for quite a number of years now. I use it all 4 seasons. The only places where a hammock is not the right tool for me is on river canoe trips where we might be camping on gravel bars. However in these cases, i can just sleep on the ground under the tarp. The tarp is the real shelter, the hammock takes the place of a cot. Oh, my hammocks are made by Claytor, so no double -h alliteration. Most don't, it is funny that the few that do were mentioned all at once.

For many of the "elite teams", it is a business. The coach is there to make a living. Winning is necessary to continue in the business (parents wont pay big bucks to be on a team that habitually loses). Thus the coach is financially interested in maximizing the time the players practice. This is far different from what should be happening in youth sports (or any youth activity for that matter). The sole purpose should be to provide opportunities for kids to play and have fun. Unfortunately the adults led organized activities and sports become focused on other things. Adults are deluded in believing that these hyper focused adult led sports, etc... will lead to pro-careers or even college scholarships. Those kids who will make it will showcase their talent on even the worst teams, clubs, etc... It is big business to get parents to pay big money in an attempt to buy their way into scholarships or pro sports. Too bad it doesnt work.

Some might argue that religious leaders are some of the most adept at mass social manipulation. To decree the order came from god makes it unquestionable even though the decree is really just the religious leader's self directed moral code based on their personal (or groups) interpretation and implementation. Religious based moral codes are no less succeptible to mans own personal justification, interpretation etc. I might argue that invoking god into the moral code allows us to take the easy way out in determining the real ethical and moral choice given the complexity of the situation. Even absolutists use word choices which really have situational or subjective determiners within them. The recent discussion regarding the word kill vs murder is case in point. Those that argue the word should say murder are really just saying killing that is immoral. It is a circular argument which begs the question how does one determine when killing someone is a violation of the moral code. The answer requires a specific situation and the details to determine, thus it is not an absolute, but situation specific.

The claim that there is either a god inspired moral code or it is based on self-preservation is a false dichotomy. Ones moral code can (and I would argue is) based on that of the communities' interest. It is NOT self-serving, nor based on what is good for the individual, but instead based on serving others and what is best for the society as a whole.

Yes, this is where we differ. I believe that someone born and left in the wilderness without any human contact for 20 years would have a different understanding of empathy, compassion, caring and love for one another if they even have those understandings. And, I believe that if 10 people were left in 10 different wildernesses all over the world for 20 years without human contact, they would have 10 different understandings of those traits, if they even have any understanding. However, if all of them were left with one source of explanations, then they would not only have an understanding of all those traits, they would have a single general understanding.

 

That is the point of using god as the source for the oath and law.

 

Barry

Yes we fundamentally disagree. In addition, the alone in the wilderness is a false premise as mammals cannot survive without being reared, thus any conclusion based off your story is not valid. Lastly, even other animals demonstrate actions which could be perceived as showing empathy, compassion etc... I am thinking of elephants and whales. Fascinating creatures. I will not go as far as to say that they have morals as we cannot ask them about their choices. But their behaviors seem to show that actions which appear to follow the same direction as a moral compass. So yes, we do fundamentally disagree. I believe that I and others do have a general understanding of moral principles without them being handed down by a god.

Hmm, without god, how does one know the right direction?

 

Barry

So you are saying you don't know the difference between right and wrong without someone telling you? Empathy, compassion, caring, love for one another is part of being human. I know the right thing to do without an external source.

Some things remain a constant, other things are fickle and change to suit one's agenda.

 

I think there's a better track record for constant reliability than fickle winds of change.  I seriously don't think anyone's empathy is a reliable source to put one's trust in.

I disgree with the last sentence. Empathy is a great source. Like those who choose to ignore their god's command, there are those who choose to act in opposition to that which they know they should. This doesnt make the source unreliable, it means humans choose whether to follow their moral compass. Even without god, the compass can point the right direction. One still has the choice to follow it.

My wife has one. We also have kayaks and canoes. The SUP is not a watercraft. It is a water toy. It has many variations and could be used to transport but that is not its design nor function. It is for recreating on the water, not for transport of people or gear. Sure it can be used, and probably is but only in perfect conditions. One should not be traveling on water in a vessel which requires only perfect conditions. Like almost all things, choose the right tool for the job.

I didnt diary much until about 10 years ago. With over 30 nights a year in the woods, I certainly have my last 70 in journal form. Some with photos, some not.

IMO the Oath does not need changing. However, there should not be some other declaration of any specific principles which narrowly define those principles. Keep the oath, lose the drp.

Maybe you should first get a feel of what types of activities they are interested in so you can recomend places providing those opportunites.

Bingo! High adventure is not a where, but a what. After the boys decide on the adventure, then they can decide on the geography.

This is just one reason I abhor the idea of scouts acting as foreman for a contracting project. These building projects require too much adult participation.

"Do a good turn daily" sounds like an excellent way to demonstrate all of it.

Watching trends and changing from traditional scouting to a modern career oriented program which de-emphasizes the outdoors and scoutcraft sounds like a repeat of the failed attempt of the improved scouting program of the 70s. Unfortunately GBB isnt around to bail them out this time.