mashmaster

4 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Don't know that I'm driving at anything.  I'm just confused.  In August of 2018 you wrote in your "OA Ordeal Question" thread:

Then in September 2018 in your "Some people have some nerve thread:

then in your July 2019 thread "Invisible Scouts" thread:

It just seems like you've had an adversarial relationship with the troop/troops for a while. 

Well, that Scoutmaster is gone and the other Assistant Scoutmasters came to me with similar complaints.  So it wasn't just me.  In fact the Scoutmaster publicly shamed a boy and the boy quit scouting.   That was one of the last straws for the rest of the troop to see the true metal of the person.

And yes I have issues when Adults in scouting don't  operate in the best interest of the youth.

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

Well, you're complaining that members of his former units weren't supporting his project.  Former being the operative word.  Just because one party believes a break up is amicable doesn't imply both parties do.  

You didn't answer my question though about his shipmates.  Did they show up to work?

 

Today was the second workday.  Only two scouts from the former troop and a member from the local Mountain biking community showed up.  If you read what I wrote, it wasn't that the former units were supporting his project.  The Scoutmasters asked him to send them the signup information and didn't send it out.  The Scoutmasters are not the unit, the youth are.

At the prior work day, there were members from his Ship, Crew, and two prior Troops showed up to work.  I am not sure what you are driving at with this question.   For his Ship, he reached out directly to them, Ships are much much smaller than Troops and he has had multiple members of that unit have supported and been there but even if the entire Ship showed up the number is 10.  The troops he was with are both around 60 scouts.

1 hour ago, David CO said:

I've changed my opinion.  Your son is learning how to put up obstacles for scouts.  This sounds like the ideal training for future council/district executives. 

This message confuses me.  Is it a joke?

16 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

As defined by you I suppose.  Did the troops think it was amicable?  Beyond that, did his shipmates show up?

On his first work day he had many members from his old troops so I think I can safely say it was ammicable.  Not sure why you would doubt that?  

Thanks, it is pretty cool to see the transformation that has already happened.  In my son's words to the committee when reviewing his project "I want to build a park, not a park bench"

2 minutes ago, thrifty said:

I hope the project was a success for Mashmaster's son.

It is progressing. He has an ambitious project of building a mountain bike trail with jumps, ramps, and other fancy mountain bike obstacles.  They are done with the trail, now it is the obstacle construction stuff.

11 hours ago, Navybone said:

What was his departure from the other two troops like.  Was it amicable?  

Yes it was, 

Well he got 2 people to show up. The scoutmasters requested him to send them the signup sheets he made and he was proactive in reaching out to them.  That is why he reached out to the Scoutmasters.   He is no longer in that unit so he doesn't have access to email them.  So it is frustrating if they tell him to send them the information to send out and they don't.  I place that BLAME on the scoutmasters for setting a parameter and not following through on it.  He is doing the recruiting per the conditions that he is.

So when you say why is he reaching out to the Scoutmasters that is why.  

The people he has gotten to show up, he has been reaching out to the local mountain bike community with great success.

I am pretty sure he is learning how to be a "True" Eagle scout.

9 hours ago, David CO said:

I don't know why he asked the scoutmasters to contact scouts to work on the project.  The scoutmasters aren't supposed to recruit volunteers.  Your son is.

Most of all, don't blame it on other people.  They don't owe it to your son.  They don't have to help your son if they don't want to.  If you are seeing a pattern (that people don't seem to be willing to help your son), find out why and fix it.  Then your son will have learned a valuable lesson, and can be a true eagle scout.

 

So my son is working on his Eagle project.  He reached out to his two prior troops for volunteers last weekend to both Scoutmasters. Found out that neither one bothered to send the information to their troops. So my son has to hope that people from community groups he reached out to will show up.  Neither of them bothered to even reply to his email request.  It pisses me off to see people not bother to be helpful.  fingers crossed he gets some people to help tomorrow.

I am confident that all the proper rules are being followed.  I personally know the National Commodore and Sea Scout program director.

Techincally in the charter bylaws that are signed by congress from many years ago as the official charter org of National Scouting the wording is there that allows for religious discrimination.  I don't have it handy but I have seen it.  I don't agree with it personally, and in the camp of zero discrimination and allow any youth that wants to  scout the opportunity to do so.

As the former minister of the Charter Org from when I was a Scoutmaster once told me when the LBGTQ issue was hitting it's peak.  "Our Church believes that any youth that would like to be involved in the program.  We are here to serve the youth and the community"

I can't argue with him on that.

1 hour ago, Merlyn_LeRoy said:

Even the BSA's own documents on chartering organizations says the USCG AUX can't charter units:

https://scoutingwire.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Chartered-Organization-Resource-Guide_522-925_wb.pdf

In the section titled "Chartered Organization Code List" starting on page 125, it lists codes for various chartering organizations, and EVERY government organization has an asterisk, which is at the end of the list meaning "* Available to Learning for Life only"

Note this entry on page 126:

075 Coast Guard (Stations, Reserves and Auxiliaries)*

So you keep saying they can't charter units but they have.  Maybe the publications haven't been updated.  

What I personally do and position this for the youth is that we will always be non-discriminating and inclusive to people.

</Ramble on>

There are many things that we have done over time to people that are well intentioned but the received perception may not be received in how we would have liked or expected.  e.g. someone that has lost weight "you look great, good job on losing weight.  You must feel healthier now".  The comment might seem to you to be positive but the reception might be "You have been unhealthy and you are finally losing weight." it is kinda like the telephone game.

Many scouts and scouters have lived somewhat sheltered lives being part of the majority and being surrounded by the same.  "Let's all say the lords prayer, Johnny I know you are Jewish feel free to not say it".   Johnny is now singled out and viewed as different.  much different from saying "let's all take a moment to have silent prayer and reflection".  Or let's have an interfaith service and represent all.

Good forbid we go back to the good old days where Chinese/Black/Mexican... characters in movies are played by White actors in make up.  Think the Kung Fu series......  what a message to send to Asian's about that casting.

Most military people I have talked with seemed to have very open race acceptance because they are thrust into situations to get the job done with others.  They do seem to be very pro-police and take a lot to question what potential negative things that go on.  I would assume that is because to the repeated reliance on structure.

I can respect military, police, protesters, religious, athiest.... and attempt to judge on the individual level.  We all have our failings and need to attempt to listen and change them.

</Ramble Off>

https://seascout.org/news/auxscout-is-here/

12 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

They are poor initiatives.  Except for #4.

 

I disagree.  I can't disagree with any of these initiatives.  Discrimination is wrong on every level

3 minutes ago, Merlyn_LeRoy said:

"Any Sea Scout from any ship can join the CGAUX even if they are not in a Ship that is not sponsored by the Auxillary."

That's not what I'm talking about at all.

The CGAUX can't charter any Sea Scout Ships.  They can't have the Sea Scout program as their official youth program.

"Explorer Posts are part of the Learning for Life program on the BSA and can be sponsored by the Auxillary, Police, Fire, and others."

That's because Explorers don't exclude atheists.  The Explorer program USED to, but when the ACLU sued, the BSA split it into Exploring and Venturing (with Exploring being under L4L and Venturing still excluding atheists).

The Sea Scouts still exclude atheists.

Feel free to tell that to the units that have already been chartered over the last few months.  I know this on actual fact, let me know if you would like to the National Commodore, I have his info.

Does it put a timeline on for the Merit badge?  My son is working on his Eagle Project now.  

1 hour ago, Merlyn_LeRoy said:

 

"An Auxiliary Flotilla can actually offer both registration status at the same time."

No, it can't.  The US CG AUX is part of the government and can't discriminate on the basis of religion by chartering any BSA unit that does not allow atheists.

"So, a young adult who wants to be active with the youth program offered by a Coast Guard Auxiliary Flotilla can resister as either a "Sea Scout" or an "Explorer" and do the same things."

But this is advertised as being only GCAUX and Sea Scouts as its official youth program.  Anyone looking into the Sea Scouts will see that you have to follow the DRP, and the government can't require that to join their youth program.

Any Sea Scout from any ship can join the CGAUX even if they are not in a Ship that is not sponsored by the Auxillary.  Normally you need to be 17 to join the Auxiliary.  The Auxiliary also provides deeply discounted rates for the excellent training courses they provide for Scouts and Scout leaders.

It is a small percentage of Sea Scouts that go into maritime industries in the future.  Some do for sure, but most are in the program to have fun scouting on the water.

Explorer Posts are part of the Learning for Life program on the BSA and can be sponsored by the Auxillary, Police, Fire, and others.  They don't follow Advancement in the same way as types of units.  I believe Stem Scouts also don't have the same by laws as well.

22 hours ago, Merlyn_LeRoy said:

So, I assume the Sea Scouts are allowing atheist members now, right?

Funny, I looked at your posts and there is a common theme about being against anyone that is an Atheist. Sea Scouts still has the same chartering requirements as other BSA units. We are also respectful of the youth and others in the program to ensure all are welcome in the most difficult age of their life. We do hold interfaith services if that answers your question. But I do not require them to participate in the service. 

Teenagers already have a lot to deal with now.  I do not have them declare a religious doctrine when they join. 

15 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

I think you should just reexamine and contemplate my post so you have a better understanding of my comments. 

Let's try to find a more respectful way to talk to one another.

Yes Scouting needs to be fun, otherwise the youth won't want to do it, but scouting is much more than just having fun.

If you look in the Sea Scout early texts, you find mention of the 4-S's of Sea Scouting.  They are still very relevant: Scouting, Seamanship, Service, and Social.  Scouting is all about tradition things like patrol method/camping/etc (doing things).  Seamanship is Sailing/paddling/motor boats/navigation/Sea Skills.  Service is doing for others.  Social is just as important.  I think these concepts still apply.

https://wrseascouts.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/the-4-ss-of-sea-scouting/

I have good news too.  My sons Eagle project was approved tonight.  The biggest issue they had with it is that it is ambitious and bigger than most 🙂  When in the video with the committee he said that he found this project and didn't want to build just a park bench he wants to build a park.  He is building a mountain biking slopestyle track at a local mountain biking non-profit.  Gotta love projects that include excavators and chain saws.  Just waiting for one more signature before they can start.  fingers crossed.

Awesome!

I really liked it

9 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I hate to say it, but I think Sea Scouts, the second oldest program in the BSA ( since 1912) may be one of the "sacred cows" that will be sacrificed. Between cutting off program at 18 and doing away with area and regions, I got a real bad feeling about this. The only way I could see it being saved is if they allow the area volunteers these events. And as good a program as Sea Scouting is, I would hate to lose it. But someone either here or elsewhere, said that BSA could possible hand it over the the USCGA to run since it is their official youth program.

Don't kill the messenger. I was an Ordinary Sea Scout. Sea Scouting kept active for a while after turning 18.

I hope you are wrong.  It is such a good program.  I know many youth this is by far a better fit for them over regular Troop scouts.  The maturity level is just so much higher and they really own their experience.

On 5/22/2020 at 1:41 PM, desertrat77 said:

Regions + Areas = Mutual Admiration Societies (MAS)

MAS = zero value to units

 

In Sea Scouting, there is a lot of Area and Region activity for units.  This is primarily because there are so few units and the kids are older so they have multiple events that they work together for the youth.