CherokeeScouter

What a great problem. And what an easy solution. Get the Scouts together, pull out of a the map of the U.S. and pick a place to go camping. My suggestions would be Philmont, Sea Base in the keys or the Grand Canyon. Then book some flights, go there and camp. What about the World Jamboree next year?

We found ourselves in a similar situation with several thousand in the bank. Soooo, we decided to give every kid in the troop a scholarship to one summer expedition. We had groups going to Summer Camp and Northern Tier. We usually also do a group to Philmont and/or Sea Base, but not this past summer. It worked out really well. I think we granted every Scout a $150 scholarship.

All this money comes courtesy of a poinsettia fundraiser that I"ve posted about before. We prolly make about $5,000 a year out of that thing (although I'm not exactly sure because I'm not on the finance committee).

I'm a lifelong liberal and Democrat, yet I totally agree with statement "Generally speaking, I find that liberals are opposed to diversity if it differs in some way from their own bright ideas and social theories." The hard Left is just as bad as the hard Right. Both seem intolerant to me.

Just like the people always quoting Scripture are often the least Christ-like of anyone you'll meet - at least in my experience.

Here's the thing: I disagree totally with the church that kicked my troop out last year. They were wrong and it was very un-Christ-like, IMHO.

HOWEVER, they were totally within their rights to do. They have a church and in this country, they can worship as they please.

If it's any consolation, all troops hit rough patches. You will get through this. Just scale back to the absolute minimum - just enough to keep the troop viable and the boys interested. Good luck and thanks for your service.

The boys walk their neighborhoods and sell to neighbors, family and friends. We don't have a stand or anything like that.

I think you guys are talking about Lanoche. We do the Winter Camp there. Excellent place. Would even suggest it for northern troops for a post-Christmas excursion. Beautiful camping in Florida in winter. Combine it with a trip to the Cape Canaveral or the Everglades or the Keys. Do some Scuba or fishing.

I gotta say, camping in Florida in mid-summer is nothing short of brutal. We don't really offer it after mid-May because no one would go. Our troop activities in the summer are focused on Summer Camp (usually in NC or GA mountains) and the annual treks to Philmont, Summit, Northern Tier and the AT.

Love this thread. Good post. First campout ever - and it was the coldest since - it got down to 5 below and we were in a freakin' creek bed. The wind was whistling through the pass, so no telling what the wind chill was. Very first campout. I was 11. Kids came through MUCH better than adults. Definitely wool caps and complete change of clothes at lights out - including underwear. We had prepped at meeting before, so we all made it through. Cotton is OK I guess, but wool is king. Insulates even when wet. But this was so long ago that even down bags were new. Now they have so many different products that it's definitely easier to prepare.

We have sold them for the past three years and have been very successful. We have a nursery that sells them to us for next to nothing and we sell them at bargain rates. We are making triple what we made selling other stuff. Everyone buys them.

Maybe there is a nursery in your area that's a friend of Scouting.

What a good teachable moment for both you and your son. And the SM and the offending party.

I took the road less traveled - I worked my butt off for both my Eagle and my college degree - and I think it has made a difference. I'm sure I've met cheaters who took the easy way to both Eagle and a degree, but that's their burden. I also don't cheat others in business as an adult and I sleep well at nite.

As far as how to handle the cheating Scout, I think you - not your son - should approach the SM and say something along the lines of "Jimmy has been bragging to others about how he took some shortcuts on some merit badges. You may want to talk to him about it." Then you've done your job. You and your son should do no more. Keep it short and sweet and then leave it alone. Tell your son to do the same.

Then, if I were the SM, I would pull Jimmy aside or address it in a SM conference. And my script would be something like this: "Jimmy, it's going around that you were bragging to others about taking some shortcuts on some merit badges. Now, I have no idea if this is true or not because I didn't hear you say it. But we need to talk a little bit about the problems with taking shortcuts....." Then I would talk to Jimmy in general about the problems that lying and cheating cause, not just in Scouting but in life."

That's a conversation you can defend to anyone, including Jimmy's parents.

That is providing leadership and a moral compass. That's really the most you can do. The rank, at least up until this point, has been earned, and, as others have pointed out, you are operating on hearsay. But don't fall back on hearsay as a reason not to address it. Hearsay doesn't mean you can't talk about things.

No back story. I think the dad was a little apprehensive about approaching the old SM, but I encouraged the dad to be up front. His son wanted to join our troop because that's where all his buddies were. Everyone understands that. Old SM could not have been nicer, btw. I was really asking about the form, which I had not seen used in a very long while. We called council and they said just to do the application and to not worry about the transfer form. The two troops are interesting because they are literally side-by-side in our part of town and they are huge and very old troops. Ours dates back to 1916 and theirs is just a little younger. We have 80 registered and probably get 20 to 30 on a campout. 30 is about the norm for meetings. A good 25 to 30 are in high school and are either Eagle or Life working on Eagle. Our biggest problem is keeping the kids once they get Eagle. We have a couple who come back and lemme tell you, they are worth their weight in gold.

If a boy is transferring in from another troop, is it absolutely essential that they fill out the transfer form, which is signed by the SM of the troop you are leaving? Could they not just let their registration expire and join another troop? They could bring their IHR or book, which we might accept.

Hey folks, our Troop is looking to buy the traditional red and white Boy Scout troop flag. However, we would like one that has grommets on all four corners, so we could use it as a banner. We would also like one out of cloth instead of nylon. Most of the ones I see online and for sale are the nylon flag variety with only grommets down the left. Am I looking in the wrong place and can one of you maybe suggest a site or a store? Tx.

Wow, where to begin. Lot of negative ju-ju going around.

We have a large troop - 80-plus. Rightly or wrongly everything is elected, right down to the Librarian. That list posted above is pretty accurate. We probably have that many positions. If a Scout needs something for rank and isn't holding a position, he asks the SM for a special project. And yes, we generally have a few left over and the SM sends out an email saying these positions are vacant. Who knows why they didn't run originally. Maybe they were at practice, maybe they're shy - whatever. When was a ASM and did conferences, I asked about why they didn't run for anything and the need to step outside their comfort zone a little bit. When I was a volunteer and did BORs, I would talk to the Scout about how important leadership is and why it's part of Scouting.

Now, the APL thing posted where the kid didn't hold the right rank but did all this work - was this an actual case or an example? Not sure how that happen. That's because serving in a position of responsibility or doing a project is an actual advancement requirement that has to be turned into the IHR or logged into the Scout's book. In other words, the BOR folks are looking to see if that requirement is signed off, not at the bottom of the IHR where it lists all of the leadership positions a Scout has held. Now, the BOR folks may talk about the leadership positions, but if that requirement is signed off, then it was by virtue of an eligible position or a SM-approved project.

If someone gave an APL credit for passing that leadership requirement by virtue of him being an APL, well, that's on the SM, or whomever passed him on it.

Our biggest problem with positions of leadership is that some Scouts do their job better than other Scouts. That's why, for the time being, we have adult volunteers assigned help coach each position. The SM works with the SPL and ASPLs, a facilities guy works with the Quartermaster, etc. My background is writing, editing and public relations, so I work with the Scribe, WebMaster and Librarian. Working with the Scout, a scope of work is developed for each position and expectations are outlined at the beginning of each 6 months. We devote one whole meeting to this at the first PLC. If they don't meet those deliverables, they are coached and we continue to work with them. The adult leaders help the Scout develop the scope of work and then the Scouts run with it. My scribe just turned in minutes for the last two meetings that consisted of four sentences and two pictures - brevity appears to be his strong suit - so there will be a little coaching tonight.

Hopefully, this will evolve into a situation where the Scout who held the job previously will take on this mentoring role, but for now, this is working.

By the way, thanks to all of you who helped shepherd me through those advancement issues. Much better situation now.

However, I can say that we have evolved from an adult-run troop (bad thing) to troop now run more or less by the Scouts. We are not there yet, but every month gets better.

We are in Tampa and we just started TroopKit. It's a little clunky as far as software, but it's a pretty sweet communication tool and the signup stuff seems to be going OK. We have had a few glitches with the transition from post-a-list-on-a-bulletin board sign-up process to TroopKit, but I would say they were self-inflicted. In addition to deploying the new software, we also changed some processes and I think that is what has caused heartburn. If you are downtown, I can walk you through it at my downtown office. The whole key is getting people to use it and sticking to it. IM me if you want details.

What counts as an activity for fulfilling the Second and First Class activity requirements? If the troop offers a MB class to the troop on a Saturday, does that count as an activity? How about when a couple of patrols meet to work on advancement stuff? We are using a combination of TroopKit and TroopMaster and I think all we are tracking are service projects, Eagle projects and campouts. I've got a couple of Second and First Class candidates who have 10 activities, but only six or seven are showing on their official record.

I understand fully the Cooking MB situation with Eagle candidates. My question is whether Cooking MB can be used as one of Eagle-required MB before January 2014 for Star or Life. Say we have a Star candidate up for a BOR in November or December who has three Eagle-required MB, plus Cooking, which would be the fourth. Is that four Eagle MBs? Doesn't seem covered in any of the BSA literature I went over.

BTW, I posted earlier about some problems with the advancement chair and you guys were a big help. She resigned over the summer, partly over the turmoil, and she has been replaced, but they are pretty much her protégés. They still consult her on a regular basis and we have some of the same problems - people interpreting things without having gone through training or without consulting the Advancement Guidelines - but the situation has quieted down somewhat.

I am still so tempted to call the District or Council Advancement Rep and try and talk him or her into doing a training session, but the more senior SM and ASMs would really be offended and probably not participate. As a I stated earlier, I am one of the junior ASMs and am pretty much persona non-grata among these guys for pushing the issues.

It's such a shame because as an Eagle raised on a farm who spent most of his youth outdoors hunting and camping, I really know my campcraft and could really help out. It was so funny today. I had gone to Home Depot and bought one of those foot lockers with wheels and a handle and was stocking it with the usual. One of the older ASMs comes in and goes "What's that?"

And I explained it was our patrol box. Next question was "What's that for?"

Wait 'till he sees the patrol leader's duty roster on this weekend's campout. Been on five campouts with this troop and have seen only one so far. That was when the three newly-trained ASMs, including me, chaperoned the group to Summer Camp and we made the provisional SPL do a roster for the whole week.

I do have to give the SM, who is in his second year in the job, credit for starting to re-introduce the Patrol method, utilizing the older Scouts to teach skills, etc. My one criticism is that the older Scouts' knowledge of campcraft is really thin, so I expect some of my camping this weekend will be spent "reinforcing" a couple of knots, maybe a little compass work and how to sharpen a knife with a stone and a strop.

I figure I will just continually go over those Second and First Class skills - just a skill or two on a campout - even when they are Star and Life scouts. The new ASMs are just as serious and we are lucky because they are all extremely talented outdoorsmen and good all-around people. I know the idea of using adults to teach all this stuff is counter to the Scout-taught way, but you gotta crawl before you can walk. Before I'm done, I will have a bevy of Star and Life Scouts who can teach any skill in that book.

BTW, my son is nearly 13, and has yet to sit for his Second Class BOR. Admittedly, he has done all the requirements for Second Class and most for First Class, but there is no rush to Eagle here. Just a desire on his part to go camping every chance he gets. He absolutely loves it. His choices of MBs are hilarious. The first four he did were Space Exploration, Astronomy, Cooking and a fourth that escapes me. When I tried to steer him toward an Eagle MB, he was like "No way. In Space Exploration you get to build a rocket and shoot it off. How cool is that?"

Couldn't argue with that. It is pretty cool. I hope he gets Eagle one day, but it will be his choice.

I'm the OP. On my honor, it's a fairly accurate portrayal. In fact, I'm a little worried that the problems are so specific, someone from the troop may be able to identify it. But maybe that's not a bad thing. One thing I was wrong on, however. She is ATTEMPTING to disallow the Swimming MB. It's actually going on this month and she and instructor are feuding. At this point in time, nothing has been taken away from the kids. She simply threatened to do this, which I don't think she can do if the SM signed the blue cards before they started. The counselor has been approved by Council.

We have a pretty strict advancement chair and I don't have a problem with that. It's a good thing. But I'm a little unsure of where she is getting her info when she starts quoting stuff.

I go by the Boy Scout Handbook. But am I missing a document here? Is there some sort of document or BSA web link that further defines or specifies the requirements and how they are to be administered? I'm not talking about the documents or links that suggest certain ways to go about things. I'm talking about the official requirements.

Recent issues:

* Disqualified about 10 kids from getting Swimming Merit Badge. The council-certified counselor had sent out a bunch of information ahead of time that was good reading in preparation for the badge. She disallowed the badge, saying it was the Scouts' responsibility to look up their own information. I had a real problem with this one. That's like a teacher giving an exam without bothering to go over the material. The counselor didn't take any short cuts and it was a multi-session thing. He and the kids spent an awful lot of time on it. He went over the material in the handouts with the Scouts. He just wanted the kids to familiarize themselves with the stuff he was going to talk about on shore.

* Disallowed about a half-dozen Tenderfoot requirements for eight or nine Scouts at a Patrol Meeting because the Patrol Advisor did not have any other Scout Leaders present, just about a half-dozen dads. In a roundabout way, she was questioning the integrity of the Patrol Advisor as to whether the material was taught. Of course, I was wondering about the two-deep requirement from a liability standpoint. None of the other dads had done the online Youth Protection thing, just the advisor.

* Absolutely insists that the child have their IHR from Troop Master printed out with the satisfied requirements printed on the form. They cannot be handwritten, even if it is initialed by the Scoutmaster. This is a problem because only she inputs data into Troop Master (her rule) and we have to wait on her to conduct SCMs or Boards of Review because only she can produce the printed form. And because it has to be printed out, this prohibits us from doing SCMs on campouts or things. I think this requirement ought to be restricted to just Boards of Review.

* Told the Troop parents to totally ignore keeping a personal record in Scout Handbook (you know the places where an adult signs in a kid's book). She said the only official record is the data in TroopMaster and told parents "The initials in the book do not matter."

The committee chair, a very intelligent and decent man, tends to back her, citing concerns over data integrity. But as an advisor, and for the assistant Scoutmasters, it's driving us crazy. For example, Child A lacks the first -aid requirement for Tenderfoot. Goes on campout with troop and passes the requirement. But that Scoutmaster conference will not be held for at least two weeks because a) you have to return from the campout and report the data to the Advancement Chair and b) the updated IHR must be fully printed, which is sent to the Scout via email a week to 10 days later. Then you can hold the SCM.

I'm a former Eagle Scout and just recently reconnected with Scouting. And we did not have 14-year-old Eagles I can assure you of that. But this stuff just seems ridiculous and the people really suffering are the boys.

Any thoughts? Seems like a power trip to me. But I don't know. I'm new to 21st Century scouting.

And tx in advance.

I don't worry about the merit badges as much as I do the core skills in those first four ranks. Merit Badges are what they are.

So, I go over those core skills repeatedly. My Scouts will know all the knots, compass, map reading, outdoor skills, first-aid, safety, etc. when they are adults.

Former Eagle who reconnected with Scouting this year with my youngest son who joined a few months back. The troop eventually found out about my nefarious past, which included OA, Philmont, the AT, etc. I'm feel old for this game but am getting used to sleeping on the ground again.