OldGreyEagle

Test Post by Gull

All I can do is be sad for a lot of you guys. I am so sorry your scouting experiences are not very happy ones. I consider myself fortunate in that the Scout Troop my son was in until he aged out was pretty good. I have since left that troop over a philosophical dispute. I thought they should follow the BSA program. particularly the patrol method and the scoutmaster doesnt do it says he does but I digress.

 

I have worked on both Council and District Committees and generally have fun working with other people who are as excited about scouting as I am. The best/worst experience I had was with a DE. She had been a charter member of the Venturing Crew I helped form back in 1998 and she went on to become our DE (its hard on the Advisor when they turn to the Dark Side) When she used to have ideas for Program as a Venturer, I would say , Go Ahead, Plan it and Schedule it and We will support you. When she was DE, I would have great ideas for program, and she would smile and say, Go ahead, Plan it, and schedule it and we will support you. Turnabouts are a not fun...

 

The District I am in has had several DE's in the 15 or so years I have been active in it. They usually last 20-30 months at most. The District really should not rely on the DE to do much of anything because they come and go and its the people in the District that make things happen,. if you expect an DE to deliver scouting, you have no other recourse that to be disappointed as that is not their job. They function in a role of raising money and members, We may all say thats terrible and its not right, but thats the reality. if a DE only comes to you to raise money, I can see why you would not welcome him. He is doing what he is supposed to however

So, Has Smith College in Northampton, Ma ever been sued for sex discrimination?

“They didn’t go to Smith†“Go to Smith, she couldn’t even spell itâ€Â…

 

Or the Catholic Church, as they don’t ordain women as Priests, have they been sued for sex discrimination?

 

After all the pleas for the Local Option, why has no one ever mentioned the CO being sued until now?

 

 

test test test test

 

If the Local option is passed, the scenario I fear is one where an openly gay person wishes to join a unit, and it just so happens that this particular unit chooses to follow the original membership requirements. (i.e. heterosexual individuals only).

If the person is refused membership to this unit, based on said sexual orientation, and this individual decides to sue, I am guessing that the CO will be the entity that is sued.

 

Will the BSA support the CO, or wash their hands of the incident, and leave the CO hung out to dry?

One incident like this could put a significant financial burden on a CO.

 

Your thoughts?

The CO, say the Catholic Church, already discriminates against gays by not marrying them and against women by not ordaining them priests. The LDS church discriminates against women in not allowing them to be Scoutmasters or Asst Scoutmasters, as far as I know, no one has sued either entity on these matters, why would someone sue now? The BSA has said a CO can close their unit to only members of their Faith, is that not religious discrimination, ? do we know of a suit against one of those units?

 

I take it you documented the reason for the Board of Review and how it was received. You did the right thing. You talked to the boy and mother, he and his mother were presented with the issues and how the issues were being dealth with

 

 

You did the right thing, take some comfort in that

 

I have asked this before, and will again, Why when the talk of the local option first started years ago did no one bring the arguments we have today?

 

Next, there are several Churches that do not accept "openly gay" members. Do they get sued because an openly gay person wishes to join them? Why would a BSA troop sponosred by that church be any different?

 

At Camporees and other Distrct and Council events there is a fear of "mingling" with gay scouts and scouters? Do you ever go to State and National Parks? Or a commerical Campground? Are all those people straight?

 

 

As the Occidental Philosopher Harry Callahan once said, "A man's got to know his limitations",

In a less tranquil time, I always liked Copernicus, he was Polish and a good defense, at least internally, against all the dumb polack jokes I was told

 

PS Madame Curie was Polish as well

Basement, even the American with Disabilities Act (ADA) only says businesses have to make "reasonable accomodations" for workers. I am not sure a Tourette's patient would have a case against an employer whose sole focus was telephone Customer Support. The Asperger child and parents need to know that a diagnosis does not translate into "I can do whatevr the hell I want". You do not have to have a scout around you who you don't trust not to harm others or himself. He has already harmed your unit. He either shows up with an adult to watch him or he doesnt go. Not fair to the others.

I am donning my 'neo-Luddite' hat now, I would like to add that there is still nothing wrong with those 'old-fashioned' paper pamphlets. They work without electricity and you can jump page-to-page a LOT faster than on some d***** iPhone or similar electronic crutch. And before you go on about pages getting wet or something, dunk that infernal electronic contraption in the creek and let me know how that works for you.

You know Pack, not every scout has the money to own an Ipad or a smart phone. Scouts wealthy enough to have such things could learn to make do with the old standy paper publications

I guess the question comes down to are we stuck in a rut or do we love tradiiton? if the unit enjoys a repeated activity, then its a time honored beloved tradition, such as the Pinewood Derby should be. If the activity garners no love but is always done because its always been done, then thats a rut. Doing new events and activites keeps the program fresh, unless there are real ties to tradiitonal events. Which is what is up to the unit

 

Really confused here, have not any of the people concerned about gay scouts or scoutmasters ever camped in a commercial campsite or a National/State park? Did you check the sexual orientation of all the nearby campers before you set up Camp? On a hike, how do you assure that all the people you interact with are confirmed heterosexual? For those of you have been to Gettysburg, there is the McMillan youth Campground. Was every group in there straight when you were there, are you sure?

 

 

I don't see the issue, we have youth protection guidelines, we follow them. What is the issue? Is the thought the allowing of gay scouts means every campout is an orgy ready to break out?

 

Any Baptized Roman Catholic male can be elected Pope, since its been over 600 hundred years since the last guy resigned, I wonder what he will be called? My money is on Ex-Benedict...

How can one "earn" one of the highest awards of an Organization without being a member of the organization?

Not that I would ever thump the Rule Book, but sometimes, it does come in handy, SoloT, its up to you and your committee to decide how you are going to advance scouts, within the rules of course. Saying that, when a Board of Review decides not to advance a scout, there is a section in the Advancement Guide that you should read:

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

 

8.0.1.5 After the Review

If the members agree a Scout is ready to advance, he is called in and congratulated. The board of review date— not that of a subsequent court of honor—becomes the rank’s effective date.

 

If a board decides not to approve, the candidate must be so informed and told what he can do to improve. Most accept responsibility for their behavior or for not completing requirements properly. If it is thought that a Scout, before his 18th birthday, can benefit from an opportunity to properly complete the requirements, the board may adjourn and reconvene at a later date. If the candidate agrees to this, then if possible, the same members should reassemble. If he does not agree, then the board must make its decision at that point. In any case, a follow-up letter must be promptly sent to a Scout

who is turned down. It must include actions advised that may lead to advancement, and also an explanation of appeal procedures. (See “Appealing a Decision,†0.4.0, or—if applicable—“Appealing a Quartermaster Bridge of Review Decision,†4.4.2.8.) The council must keep a copy of the letter.

 

 

So, did the scout get a letter detailing what he should do? Only you and your committee know your scout,

 

If we go with the original "news" that the BSA was going to talk about ending the Gay ban was leaked by an entity other than the BSA, it shouldnt surprise us that the vote was delayed. Something like this should be decided by as any people as possible, not the Executive Board but the Voting members of the National Council (Hope I got that right). No matter what occurs, serve your unit, its the best threrapy I can think of

Welcome Dan Brew, I grew up in Wood Dale as a member of troop 65, are you close by?

OK, using Firefox, I can't seem to be able to send a private message. I wrote a message to OGE and everything looked good. When I tried to send it, an error message said that I had tried to send to one recipient but I could only send to zero recipients. So I deleted OGE from the recipient list. The next error message informed me that I had no recipients and that I needed at least one recipient. I tried it one more time to make sure I wasn't 'seeing things' and it did the same thing.

So, either it's me or its Memorex.

 

OGE, in case you read this, here's what I wrote to you (and tried to include eamonn and other moderators before I realized that it wasn't working):

"Hello OGE, while we all figure out how to do things, and because there are a lot of new moderators, I thought it would be good to establish some minimal guidelines for moderator etiquette. For example, now that we seem to have the ability to freely edit posts, seemingly without it being identified as 'moderated', would it be polite for all of us to identify the fact that we made a change? Would it be polite to identify ourselves as to who made the change and why?

 

Since you and a couple of others seem to be the most experienced of the 'older generation' of moderators, what do you think about my suggestion? The new moderators might benefit and I sure wouldn't mind it, personally, either. Thanks"

 

For the rest of forum members, this peek into the mysterious world of the 'moderators' was brought to you by Packsaddle.

 

Edit: Smileys still are not working as well, at least not for me.

Well, yes, anytime you edit a post you should identify yourself. I always did in the old system when it said "Staff Member" I figure if you cant sign your work, then you must not be all that concerned about what was written.

 

Moving stuff is different,

and 50% of all statistic are made up 75% of the time

I am reminded of the quote, attributed to Pauline Kael, "How could Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him!" Maybe she said it, maybe not, but the same sentiment is here. One side says" How Can they Change this postion" and the other says, "They have to change the position"

 

And what happens as we "discuss" the issue. Replete with Slams, Insults, all manner of prejudgement and assumptions. Now the gloves are off. The taboo formally know as the Gay Issue is on the table. Tme to find out what our communities think. Both our Scouting and Larger Public Community. Each Council has to find out what would happen either way. Does the BSA stay with the staus quo and chance a rival program starting, do they change the membership requirements and then chance losing several volunteers and units.

 

Reminds me of an Ancient Chinese Curse, "May you live in interesting time" ...[ -- most peculiar, mama

 

One thing I have to say, when members of the general public tell you the BSA should change, be sure to ask them if they would give $100 to the local council in support, for the next 20 years. Vocal support is good, financial support is best

 

But we will all remember we are all scouters, and will treat each other as such

I do not like teasing, I think its Bullying "light" but still bullying. Well, I used to. Maybe I have left my own experiences color my perceptions, then again, I thought they were supposed to. I had a few experiences in the past that qualify as beyond "light hearted" so where does that leave us?

 

I can see a give and take attitude where the teasing joshing, whatever you call it is in the troop culture and it makes people feel welcome and one of the gang. But if this is a path you choose, be very careful it does not get ugly or a situation where manhood is question if you can't take it...

When he was elected President the first time, was there not some concern he would turn down the Honorary Title of "President of the BSA' ?

 

Because of statements he made on the first Campaign trail? WHen he accepted, it seemed hypercritical then, he applauding the BSA now is in line with what he hahd said previously

CP, I loved the Incredibles...

 

Well, if you have to ask....