EmberMike

The big vote is right around the corner. Any thoughts on how it might turn out? Personally, I suspect it will go in favor of allowing gay scouts. I just don't think there is enough support for the exclusion of kids. If this were a combined vote, asking people to allow or disallow gay scouts and adults at the same time, I think there would be far stronger support for maintaining the current ban. If, somehow, it goes badly (in my opinion) then there's no future in Scouting for my family. We'll be looking at alternative organizations like the BPSA. I would continue to push the BSA to c

The big difference between this and the issue of gay kids in scouting is that gay kids don't have another option, while girls do. Exclude a gay kid and that's the end of the road for him in Scouting. Exclude girls and there's still the GSUSA. At a certain age there's also Venturing for girls.

I think the one big difference is rank and advancement. There's no Eagle equivalent for a youth group. That's the end-goal for most kids, and although few make it and still get a lot out of the program, having a goal to shoot for is a huge incentive, and a huge reason to opt for something like Scouting over a similar group, even when all things seem equal between the two.

Why would it be an issue? Schools manage it just fine. If a kid comes out to a teacher, that's as far as it goes. The teacher doesn't inform the parents of the other kids in the class. And yet life goes on just fine. Kids still interact, share a gym locker room, go on trips, stay overnight in shared hotel rooms, etc. If this issue "takes the focus off of why we are there in the first place" in the BSA, why doesn't it do the same everywhere else?

I stumbled across this organization while reading some articles about alternative Scouting groups and similar organizations. I really know very little about it, and it seems to be a rather small group at the moment (just a handful of units around the country as far as I can tell), but it has a great deal of appeal as an alternative to the BSA. It is remarkably similar to the BSA in many ways, and different in ways that I personally find refreshing, most notably an inclusive, non-discriminatory membership policy. Anyone know anything about the BPSA? Any experiences with the organization,

I stumbled across this organization while reading some articles about alternative Scouting groups and similar organizations. I really know very little about it, and it seems to be a rather small group at the moment (just a handful of units around the country as far as I can tell), but it has a great deal of appeal as an alternative to the BSA. It is remarkably similar to the BSA in many ways, and different in ways that I personally find refreshing, most notably an inclusive, non-discriminatory membership policy. Anyone know anything about the BPSA? Any experiences with the organization,

I'm giving serious thought to not pursuing any sort of future for my kids in the BSA if somehow this policy change is voted down. Although I doubt that will happen. But on the off chance it does happen, I think I'll be looking elsewhere to fulfill the aspects of citizenship and the outdoors that I'd like to instill in my kids. I'd even consider starting up a local Baden Powell Service Association unit. Heck, to be honest, I'm considering that regardless of the BSA vote. But I've got some time to think about it, my son is still a few years out from Scouting age, and the vote this month will cer

I'm fairly new around here, but I am aware that the forum has undergone a software update recently and there are some associated problems with forum operations since then. But after a few months, I haven't seen much change. Is this forum still active? Are there plans to fix the problems? Because right now, this place is unfortunately barely usable. I can't even see much of the main discussion areas of the forum. Seems like this forum has the largest membership of any scouting forum, so if the site if going to be fixed, it's probably worth the wait. But I'd just like to know if ther

NFL players coming out may not change any moral opinions on homosexuality. But it will certainly help to further erode the misconception that all gay men act a certain way, look a certain way, can be identified as gay by how they act, talk, etc.

This site is almost completely unusable at this point.

I'm not seeing it, Mike. You're drwaing a lot of conclusions from anecdotal evidence. Nothing you've posted says anything about the rate of homosexuality in abusers. You're just taking other stats and assuming various other things from them. Where's the study that says simply that gay men are more likely to abuse kids than straight men? If it's just that simple, surely there is some evidence to support that idea. I have to add, also, that your assumption that all men who abuse boys are gay is flawed. People who abuse children have obvious mental disorders, regardless of their own gen

You're making these assumptions that all of the men abusing boys are openly gay men. As already mentioned numerous times, most abusers self-identify as straight and many have heterosexual relationships. You take issue with the science behind the studies I reference but I'm seeing nothing scientific in yours either. Just assumptions and generalizations.

Not seeing anything here that talks about the sexual orientation of the men these boys had relationships with. I am seeing some indications that some of these men were relatives, some fathers, men who would self-identify as straight. How exactly would the BSA policy have kept these men out?

Why are you assuming that gay men are more likely to abuse boys than straight women? Most of the time when you see one of these reports on tv about a teacher having sex with a student, it's often a female teacher and male student. I'd assume the risk level has to be at the very least equal. So would you support kicking women out of the BSA as well?

All I'm seeing here is that men make up the vast majority of the perpetrators nationally. But where does it say that they are mostly gay men? It looks like you are coming to that conclusion on your own. The reality is that most of those victims are being abused men who would identify themselves as heterosexual. That's what the studies that I talked about, the ones that actually discuss the rate of homosexuality, refer to. That many of these men self-identify as straight and live their lives as straight men husbands, and fathers. Banning gays from the BSA would do nothing to stop the

Regarding the Colorado study, the perpetrators were identified as gay or straight through their own admission or their current relationships. 74% of them were married or in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. Many were parents. Only 2 people in the study were self-identified to be gay or determined to be gay based on current or past relationships. Even if the data is flawed in this or the APA studies, I'd be surprised to find that the numbers skew significantly. Even if they did, look at how much of a skew it would take to make a difference. Instead of 2 identified homosexua

Sorry, AZMike, that's just wrong. On many levels. Men are allowed on GSA camping trips. Maybe in your area it's a local restriction, but the GSA has no policy against male leaders, other than that they always be accompanied by female leaders and not be alone with girls, which is prudent "2 deep" leadership no matter what organization we're talking about. Regarding the myth that gay men are more likely to molest kids... According to the American Psychological Association, "homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are." In a 1992 stu

Numerous studies have proven that gay men are no more likely to molest children than straight men. In fact, pedophiles are sometimes classified by mental health professionals as being of a "third sexual orientation." So the issue of the single gay guy who wants to volunteer with the troop is a non-issue. If his enthusiasm is the cause for concern, you should have the same concern over the enthusiastic straight guy as well.

The most common arguments I've seen and heard for maintaining the ban are usually based on flawed logic. It's usually something to the effect of gay men are more likely to molest children, so banning gays is protecting kids. Of course this idea ignores the various studies that show that gay men are no more or less likely to molest children than straight men. There was a study done a few years back that looked at 200+ pediphiles and only 2 of them were openly gay. Then there is the less popular notion that gays want to convert our kids to be gay as well. Seriously, I can't make this stuff

I can't seem to get a Quote to work. Any time I try to quote a previous post, my reply shows the Quote with the code.

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Lots of good info here. I think the point made by several folks about kids at that age not really knowing what something is, and therefore not knowing whether they'd like it, is an important point. I guess if we only let our 5 and 6 year olds do things that they volunteered to do, many of them wouldn't do much. This is exactly what my concern has been. I have no doubt that if my son becomes a scout, I'll want to be a volunteer and have some role in the pack and eventually the troop. Heck, I'd probably be a SM if given the opportunity. So is this m

When I was in high-school I was in the marching band, and one of the perks of being in the band was that for parades in which I'd have previously been marching with the Troop, I'd be with the band instead. Band trumped Scouts, and band was slightly less uncool than Scouting. Band was also 150 kids vs. the Troop's dozen kids, so it was easier to blend in with the band and not bee seen. It's sad, I know. But that's how it was and probably still is. I think part of the problem is the image of the boy scout. It's a very dated look. As mush as I respect the traditions of the organizatio

Hi folks. New guy here. I'm the father of a 2-year-old, and although I've got a few years before my son is even eligible to join a Pack, Scouting is already on my mind. I'm an Eagle and I regard my days in Scouting as some of the best I had as a youth, and so I have high hopes that my son will get the Scouting bug as well. Although we live in a "Main Street" kind of town, I'm already trying to instill a bit of an outdoorsy spirit in my son, and it's not hard to do with him. He loves being outside, far more than being inside. I think he gets worse cases of cabin fever than I do. My parent

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