boomerscout

maybe we should have the option of buying "Scoutcloth" and sewing up our own uniforms.

sometimes doing nothing is the correct choice, and sometimes it is not. You just have to use your wisdom.

As a species we do tend to like to fiddle with things that are better left well enough alone

camp should last the entire summer

forgot to add that the CPM chart may be three years long. that's why intermediate rewards are necessary such as achieving tf, 2nd and 1st class ranks, and other motivational rewards

some of the Scout high adventure programs have movies you can borrow. check with your local council first-they may have these. movies on what is now Northern Tier are viewable on the Web.

Put the word out that anyone who has done high adventure is welcome to come visit your troop and chat about it. Make sure they bring their photo album.

as someone has already said: email for brochures.

if your Scouts show enthusiasm for any, then you all (the boys too) need to work out a CPM/PERT chart on how to get from where you are to where you want to be: what merit badges need to be earned, what options for ea. badge should be chosen, what the program vendor requires, what fund-raisers need to be done, what intermediate training hikes, camping or canoeing has to be done, etc

we require all our new Scouts to fill out a questionnaire upon joining "what do you expect to get out of Scouting, what Scouting adventures do you hope to have?" this has helped.

Beavah:

I agree. Most of us judge a book by its cover -- who has time for anything else? It's not the Scout uniform in and of itself that is the problem (well, sorta), it's that the uniform symbolizes a loser program in some instances. Many volunteers are persuaded/coerced into leadership roles they're really not prepared for. Leadership training helps a little, but many just want to get through the troop meeting and go home. Result is boring Scouting. Having the kids run things is great, but many of them do not know the art of the possible. Couple this with a Soccer Mom mentality, and a fear of lawsuits, and you end with a nothing program. My own troop has lawyers on staff to mitigate all this. Seek some out for yours.

We should probably use the phrase 'apple polisher'

thank you

threatening to drop him from the roster is not what I would call a good motivational letter. How well do you know this Scout? It seems as if some personal "face time" would be in order. Telephone calls are not always effective; you need to see the body language.

Eamonn:

When I went to England in the early mid-60s it looked as if Brit Scouting was going to fade away. Do you know what caused this decline, and what brought UK Scouting back?

As an aside, Scouts Canada (Canadian Scouting) has a new program called Extreme Adventure. Scouts go camping way back of beyond. They have no uniforms for this

How much profit does Headquarters make on each uniform sold? If uniforms seem to be too expensive, maybe the profit margin is too high?

My new Fieldbook arrived today -- 3rd edition, 1994 printing, from Amazon. The second edition was getting a bit dated to teach from. Anyway, the third ed. has lots of color pix of Scouts having fun, and barely a neckerchief to be seen!

maybe if we made Scouting more interesting, the uniform thing would become a non-issue. Too many weekly troop meetings are in the church basement doing the same old same old -- how boring! Philmont? That's only once every two years if you're lucky.

maybe older Scouts don't like wearing their uniforms because Scouting is perceived by them as for little kids (11-13 years). Then, why are they still in Scouts? Because we promised them adventure like Daniel Boone would have had, and the hope is still there. Philmont? You can only go every other year (or every third year), and you still don't learn how to live off the land, trap wild game, etc. Council summer camp? Most camps are so built up that it's like going to the cottage for a week -- Big Whoop!

Do Scouts overseas (England, Australia, Germany...) complain about their uniforms? Why, or why not?

I still think the neckerchief has to go.

Jack has done his penance, and deserves to return. He might be shown the posts in this forum while talking to him over coffee. A "front rub" is sexual harassment, for sure, but a back rub? You've never had a salesman or a minister put a friendly arm around your shoulder while talking to you? Most women I know can do a two step twirl out of the embrace while saying "No". They don't go off the deep end over it. Or, was more than a backrub involved?

The rafting "incident" was obviously water-fight horseplay. I'm surprised it was even mentioned.

Staff at summer camp and attendees at Leadership Training are super Scouts who have embraced everything; they are not typical Scouts, so really are not good examples for this forum topic.

The fault with this forum is that it is of just adults. We need a properly designed answer nuetral survey of 11 to 14 year olds to pin down what is really wrong. Otherwise, Scouting is going to become elitist.

An aside: jeans for summer camping are only $9-11 on sale (Wrangler or Rustler). As America becomes more like the Third World, due to industry leaving, the number of middle-class incomes that can afford full uniforms are going to contract.

Gee, if we did away with uniforms, we'd have to use tattoos and body piercings to show rank & position. At least that way the Scouts could now be contemporary with some of their peers. The chance to have the Philmont bull on your upper arm may even swell the ranks.

When I was younger, the biggest problem with wearing the uniform in public was the neckerchief. In junior high, as puberty hits, the goal is to be cool and manly; only girls wear scarves around their necks, so "NO" to any kid uniform. My own opinion is that if the neckerchief was tied on cowboy style, it would have a lot more acceptance.

The new shirts aren't that bad. They do look a lot like the old shirts of the Australian Boy Scouts. Yes, the flag could have been done better. We (no names) are currently looking at better quality American flag patches we can sew over the one that comes with the shirt -- makes for better pride in uniform.

the bells on mountain bikes are to let the bears know that dinner's coming! (from someone on the trail who experienced a very large bear suddenly appearing -- thank God for portable air horns!)

google on

Scouts "the dump"

that should bring up a site with old S.S. manuals from England & Canada that are full of ideas

We've had this problem a few times as it's hard for many parents to shift gears from micro-managing to mentoring. We solved it by having an "expert consultant" come in from outside. What we actually did was have a very forceful, but positive, speaker from district appear at the camporee and gather up all the adults for nightly coffee. He would start off on a positive note on Scout led Scouting, give examples of when it worked well, and when it didn't. He was told about the problems well before hand so he could ask a few "innocent" questions without picking on anyone.

it takes a village -- or a troop -- to raise a child. Too many parents are too incompetent to be the final arbiter no matter how many degrees they may have. Self reliance is about figuring things out for yourself, and working it out yourself. Having an electronic tether constantly available precludes this.

Cells are disruptive. I've seen too many instances where the SM, or even a guest, is trying to explain/teach something and a Scout leaves the room to answer his phone. When he returns either what he missed has to be repeated -- thereby disrespecting everyone else by wasting their time -- or the Scout puts others at risk because of what he missed. And, if the phone is not on silent when it rings, that's really rude. As I understand you, your son called home for a ride from a regularly attended troop meeting? This, in itself, shows lack of planning and lack of self reliance.

On the other hand, if you wish your son to grow up to question authority -- as did our colonial forefathers in 1775 -- then RIGHT ON!

these are all excellent movies. for older boys who may soon go into the military, I would like to suggest

Renaissance Man (community is of unmotivated recruits)

Last Castle (community of military convicts)

Glory (black soldiers in the Civil War)

Rough Riders (how Teddy Roosevelt formed the RR)

your junior leadership program may not be strong enough. teens like to be with others their own age or slightly older; this happens in school sports & band. if service to Scouting is not the real reason to have the position, then being around a bunch of little kids is always going to be third-best

not withstanding the greater amount of scholarships or campus privileges possible with sports or band experience, I believe two possible reasons have not been sufficiently addressed:

1) like it or not, most kids are raised by peer pressure -- which means they may not want adults around at all times. Coach, band director, & Scoutmaster are roughly equivalent. Yet, when the sports team is on the field, they usually call their own plays, depend on each other, and are harder on each other than a grown-up would be. Plus, school sports gets 3-5 pages in the local paper enabling a group identity.

Similarly, a marching band, when on the field, is out there with their drum major (correct term?) while the band director remains on the sidelines -- in most cases. They make it on their own out there.

Only in Scouts do you have to have an adult baby-sitter always tagging along on the field. Scouts lead? Even at Philmont only an adult can perform the important paperwork & bill-paying. The nightly coffee at the staffed camp's cabin is only for adults -- which means even Eagles are just little kids. This gets tiring.

2) Scouts turns out to be just plain wimpy. New Scouts are frequently sold a bill of goods on Adventure. They enter expecting to have the equivalent of the pioneering m.b. by Tenderfoot, three weeks canoeing the North Woods by Second, something grand by First. What they frequently get is endless time in the knots corner, or the first-aid corner...Scouts are looking for much better rights of passage. There needs to be better use of what they've learned while they are still in Scouting.

As an aside, has anyone considered having their troop meetings on a Saturday? This would leave Sunday through Friday evenings for homework & school activities.