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Krampus

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Posts posted by Krampus

  1. 3 crews back from Philmont. Everyone had a good time. Was concerned a few adults who went did not take training seriously and were over-weight (very over-weight). They struggled but made it...and hopefully learned that they need to drop 50lbs if they ever do that again.

     

    Sadly, two leaders with two other crews were not so lucky. One died of a heart attack. The other we suspect died under similar circumstances but nothing official from Philmont.

     

    Encourage your leaders to REALLY get in shape, have a detailed set of cardio work done and do it AT LEAST a year in advance so you have time to get in shape. It ain't worth going to such a wonderful place only to go on a one-way ticket. Philmont *IS* a tough place...and we ain't 20 anymore and bullet-proof.

  2. I am glad folks are offering advice. I am stunned one or two are making this scout's belief systems out to be irrelevant. I have two scouts that have approached me. One was leaving based on religious beliefs, the other on a more prejudice belief. For the former I merely listened to him, discussed that the policy does not go in to effect until next year and noted that he does not have to agree with the policy to still be part of scouts. He responded as I expected and I respected that. Unlike Thomas Jefferson, I did not mock what he believes. I accepted his point of view and asked him to look at both sides. I told him if he walks away it should be a decision he takes time to think about because (due to his age) walking away will be permanent. For the latter scout, we discussed discrimination and how that affects society. We discussed the dangers of discrimination and how that drove WWII and the 60+ years of current problems in the Middle East. Unfortunately, this scout is getting his hatred from home so there is not much that we as scouters can do about that. @Qwazse, I'd be interested to find out what the scout says/said (if you feel you can share) when you talk to him.

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  3. In a near by council there are three Baptist units who will not have their charter renewed. One other unit I know was holding off on their recharter at their COR's request until the vote was taken. After the vote the COR called the unit to say their charter would not be renewed for 2013. That's 4 units now looking for homes which they had prior to the vote.
    KDD...let's not go there. Each side proclaims to know how Jesus would have thought on this issue and neither has a clue. We have a moral stand off and the Baptists are within their right to follow theirs. I suspect those on the other side of this debate would have done something similar like left Scouting had the proposal not passed. Let's not throw stones.
  4. Pack are you trolling....

     

    There is an incredible amount of peer pressure,,,,,,,

     

    I was forced to take woodbadge by the Districts Good old boys club......New scouter, what did I know, heck I was trying to fit in....You need woodbadge to put on District level cub events......Ok I will do it....Well I did and they still told me know......Well 5 years later they are all gone, no longer active in scouting. Wellyou come back having completed woodbadge....they just pulled out another hurtle......and another and another.....Ok, I get it you don't want me to volunteer. You have zero District level cub programs and your ok with it.

     

    Woodbadge was a complete waste of two weekends.....I understand that my course may not be the norm.......But from speaking with other folks, I don't think so......

     

    Did I benefit for woodbadge, naw..... Our patrol never bonded, we were spread out over 200 miles separating us....Country hicks that don't own computers and barely have a house phone, with no answering machine...and the hicks won't drive half way to meet the rest of us for a patrol meeting.....

     

    Did my unit benefit....naw....My ticket was stuff I was going to do anyhow....

     

    The things that happened in my course.....All of the councils key volunteers were on staff, IOLS course director, training director, Council Commisioner....just about everyone. Many of staff members held court during lunch or during down times, most of my patrol was busy kissing ass.......I love the inside jokes, not so much.... The announcement song over and over and over again at gillwell. When I was PL I was caught in a fight between the female SPL and her adult son who was in my patrol and very obviously didn't want to be there......I could go on and on and on...

    BD is right. I was a Scout. I was a long-time Scouter. RT folks and other unit leaders at RT were telling me how much my unit and I would benefit from WB. I am very organized and good at goal-setting and networking anyway. So three years ago I went. Total waste of time.

     

    If you know your core scouting skills, know how to run a troop, read BSA documents for leaders, attend RT, network with your peers (here and at RT and elsewhere) you will get all you need. For those lacking direction or experience or organization then WB might be worthwhile.

  5. We had a scouter who wore an older style uniform (green) with the 1937 Jamboree patch...that he earned because he was there and stood shoulder to shoulder with BP, West, Beard, and other.. He died a few years ago at the age of 90-something. He also wore his original Eagle medal, from the 1930s. Who among you would have been rude enough to criticise his wearing of the uniform? Sheesh.
    Old guys like that would be an obvious exception. 40 or 50-somethings wearing more bling than Lady Gaga is ridiculous. When the 50-somethings become 70 or 80-somethings, then more power to them. But for now get real.
  6. In a near by council there are three Baptist units who will not have their charter renewed. One other unit I know was holding off on their recharter at their COR's request until the vote was taken. After the vote the COR called the unit to say their charter would not be renewed for 2013. That's 4 units now looking for homes which they had prior to the vote.

  7. It's safe to say that the resolution should pass today, and I hope it does. Here is why:

     

    - It reflects current practice in a majority of Scouting Units. I have observed, in my decades of Scouting, that good Scouting leaders put their Scouts first in every case. This includes homosexual youth. A good Scoutmaster or Crew Adviser will make it a priority to ensure a homosexual Scout understands not to let it become an open distraction, and suppresses the culture that can lead to bullying of a homosexual youth, instead fostering a more mature acceptance, aid, and understanding. This is very similar to units which include youth with disabilities. This is very similar to youth of a severe minority (think multiracial family in 99% white area). The potential distraction is maturely overcome by the team coming together to help everyone achieve in the way a Troop should.

     

    - It prioritizes sexual acts at an age of minority (18 as law, 21 as public consensus, 27 in Obamacare) as something all Scouts should be ashamed of, not their identity.

     

    - It realizes that sex as a topic should be defused, not recurring or educational. A minority identity brings great diversity of knowledge and experience, and as such presents a constant opportunity for learning. This is why we seek out Plumbers for Plumbing Merit Badge, Liaison Officers or Counselors to present "A Time to Tell", and Pastors for Religious Awards. Coming together with people of these defining minority identities help us learn in Scouting. When the adult in question has a defining minority identity inextricable from sex, someone of that identity is presenting a constant distraction. Leaders who defuse that identity themselves by not openly identifying sexually are obviously, then, not distracting. While there may be youth that identify as homosexual, they are by no means authoritative on the subject, being completely bound by the fact that no Scout should be discussing sexual activity.

     

    - It allows the distinction to be made for youth that attraction does not equal activity. Open courtship is not tolerated in Venturing and so would not be in Troops.

     

     

    - It acknowledges that this membership policy is necessary because sexuality is not appropriate in Scouting and this change reflects a larger consensus to ensure that it is less of a distraction. It simultaneously iterates that Reverence IS appropriate to Scouting, and a personally defined Duty to God is entirely a function of Scouting that will never be questioned and will continue to be championed. This means that sex should always be defused as an issue and personally defined Reverence should always be promoted.

     

     

    I do have one issue...

     

    It is seemingly derailed by how to handle quarters. Current policy relies on assumptions of sexual activity and exploitation. There is a heterosexual assumption for youth, and an exploitative assumption for adults and so policy reflects this by separating quarters between male and female, youth and adult to prevent sexual and exploitative opportunity. This does not prevent all sexual activity or exploitation. Youth that are bound and determined to create an opportunity for a sexual encounter together will always find a way, and the policies of keeping them separate and having an understanding that the activity is un-Scoutlike are about as far as we can go as an organization to prevent it in a uniformly enforceable way. Youth on youth exploitation is much the same. Our responsibility is to prevent it uniformly, but those youth bent on taking advantage of another youth will make an active effort to do so, and will always be removed from Scouting.

     

    The problem is in the open knowledge of homosexual youth. If we assume a male and female heterosexual youth who have no interest in each other cannot quarter together, it would seem that we'd have to have the assumption that two homosexual Boy Scouts with no interest in each other cannot quarter together. If a heterosexual male youth cannot shower in a group with females he's not attracted to nor they to him, how should a homosexual Boy Scout be allowed to a group shower with his patrol who he is not attracted to nor they to him? I understand that almost every facility now has separate showers, making that a non-issue. However, does this mean tent assignments will necessarily go the same individual way? We cannot be in the business of telling kids they have to be treated different because they're a minority, that would make us incredible bullies. If I'm missing another solution that can be made a rule to ensure uniform enforcement, please let me know.

     

    Some of the best experiences I've had in Scouting was sharing a tent with a good buddy or even someone new. It's privacy for a conversation that may have otherwise never been possible. Will we have to lose this because of this policy change, and is it worth it? If it's necessary to remain consistent as a rule, probably (though sadly).

     

    I want wholeheartedly for homosexual youth to finally no longer feel that the organization they love and enjoy is forcing them into a secret identity or forcing them out.

    I'm sorry, but anyone currently in the program -- unless they have their head in the sand -- should be fully aware of what the policy of BSA is. If they weren't and elect to leave, I suspect that is a small number. What remains to be seen is how a vote either way will affect new members coming in.
  8. @ Moosetracker...I don't mind your opinions because they are yours and you have every right to give them based on the information you elect to read and hear. However, as someone who has first hand knowledge of two of the four "scandals" currently under investigation I can tell you that your information is far from accurate. If you knew what those investigating this know but are not allowed to share for legal reasons you would most certainly change your tune. MB had it right when he said Nixon is likely rolling in his grave for having suffered more having done less.

     

  9. Merit badges are "out of your control" only if you believe the drivel coming out of the national "Advancement Team." If you know of a counselor who routinely pencil whips blue cards don't send your Scouts to them. (And that includes summer camp.) If a Scout presents you with a completed blue card for which you both know the Scout didn't do the work' date=' maybe you don't rip the card in half, but you do have a talk with the Scout about doing the right thing, about what Trustworthy means and about the joy and satisfaction of really achieving something and not accepting unearned awards? [/quote']

     

    I wish this were true but it simply isn't. I get the merit badge counselor and mb college point. However, if you go to summer camp and watch a mb class which is horribly instructed where the scouts literally learn nothing, and the counselor signs off, then there is nothing the scoutmaster can do if the scout (or parents) want that badge. Sure, we can have a talk about honesty. But what 11 or 12 year old is going to understand that he spent 5 days with a guy talking about Dead Island instead of teachhing him forestry? He's going to know he attended the class, wanted to learn, read his book and learned very little. If the counselor signs off on the card we cannot deny him his badge. We cannot make him re-do the badge in whole or in part. We cannot test him on what he learned before we give him the badge. If he wants it he is entitled to if by BSA.

     

    I have had conversations with kids about such things and mom and dad eventually step in and make Tommy's decision for him. While my own kid gave back a badge that he felt he did not earn (was awarded achery but had not qualified with a 170 or better), I would say most kids are not that respectful of the process. They will check the box and move on...sadly.

  10. Having earned that particular patch (also got the hat, t-shirt and tattoo) it works well right up to the "just move on" part. Parents like that are parents like that because they don't do "just move on" well.
    And they point to other parts of the BSA program that have also been watered down (see thread below).

     

    http://www.scouter.com/forum/order-of-the-arrow/22355-when-did-brotherhood-become-a-quot-give-me-quot#post277642

  11. Just making assumptions here, but if 63% of all Americans favor letting gays into the BSA, I'd suspect that the percentage of people currently within the BSA who also favor this is far lower. Not basing this on anything scientific, just a gut feeling that we won't see that high of a number in the vote next week in favor of changing the policy. I'd be surprised to see anything other than numbers in the 50s.

     

    I guess if you really think about it, this all does represent America very well. We rarely decide anything by large margins. We pick out presidents typically by 51% to 49%, give or take a point or two.

    Right. But presidents win by a few % points BUT the number of people eligible to vote that actually vote is even LOWER than that. So what you have is a president that 30% of the voting population voted for which is an even smaller percentage of the overall population. In essence, we have minority rule...and look that that has done for us all these years.

     

    I'd rather let private organizations be just that. If 65% of the population hates shot guns does that mean they have the right to dictate the membership policies of the NRA? Thankfully, no.

  12. I view the bourbon and such I enjoy as solvent....Helps break up the grease from the chicken wings......

     

     

    I am going to say that just about the entire troop has Seen me on my back porch with the neighbor enjoying a cigar and beverage......the joys of a tight knit community....Had one mom try to make a big deal about it.....the minister said he was mad he didn't get invited.....Mr. B was drinking and smoking on his back porch......My son saw it.....No I wasn't stupid drunk....crown black is too expensive for that...I also enjoy woodford reserve...

     

    I think the entire troop membership has spent a night with scout son in the man cave video gaming.....

    Didn't you get the note that you had to stay sober, celebate and straight all the time...even off the scouting clock? It was in the last national email. ;)
  13. Am I the only one that finds the irony in complaining about camp food as being overly-processed and sneaking off for "real food", while at the same time pumping your body with overly-distilled libations that have more crud in them than the aforementioned "bad food"? ;-)You are safer with a piece of Wonder Bread than some of the alcohol you will find at any watering hole near most scout camps. ;-)
    ...made up only because I worked in a distillery in college. ;)
  14. So....

    1. Don't mind the knots. Do mind more than 9. Rules say stop at 9 so set the example. Not in favor of knots not earned (i.e., West knot).
    2. Don't mind temp patches on the right pocket. Usually wear the most recent summer camp one or whatever we as a troop earned.
    3. While you can wear a temp patch high above the right pocket, it is pretty silly we wear your Jamboree 1973 patch. Sure you went, but really? Does a 50-something man need that much validation in his life? Wear the 2009 Jambo patch or your Philmont trek patch. Better yet, leave that space blank. I think the rules call for the current Jambo patch anyway.
    4. Interpreter strips seem to be non-existent any more. I could wear 4 but wear only one. Want to avoid looking like Richard Dreyfuss in "Moon over Parador".
    5. Service stars are another thing you don't see. Don't mind seeing those on scouters for cub and boy scout service.
    6. Adult patrol patches tick me off. I get the concept but they are not allowed. Actually saw a scouter wearing 12 knots tell a guy with an adult patrol patch that he was not compliant with uniform standards. :rolleyes:
    7. Unit anniversary bars are for certain years of service. Personalized unit bars for 20 years of service are just tacky. Great you have a 20 year-old unit but wait 5 years and then buy the correct insignia.
    8. Name tags, wish I saw more of these.

  15. What I can tell you is basically the story he told me: He had been attending his district round table' date=' and noticed that they were always opened with an overtly Christian prayer. This didn't bother him much, he just assumed that was because only Christians were volunteering to lead the prayer. So he offered to lead the opening prayer at the next round table. He was told that non-Christian prayers were not allowed, and to justify that he was told a story about the last time it was tried (basically the result was threats and violence - he told me the story as he remembered it, we both felt it was so over the top - it had to be grossly exaggerated).[/quote']

     

    We attended a summer camp a long while back where the camp chaplain (eastern state, rural) was Jesus-this and Jesus-that. I pointed out that many troops had Jews, Muslims, Hindus and other religions and he should be more open. His replay, "Jesus will eventually speak to them." :rollseyes:

     

    I doubt this is wide spread, but it is out there.

     

  16. I think we are staying from CM Mike's question.

     

    I'd keep the kid and his dad but put them on notice. Philmonth training and planning is a boy-led activitiy. If the boy leader is not leading then he needs redirection. If still not leading then he needs replacement. You cannot leader unless by example. If your example is not to show up then they picked the wrong leader. This, for my money, is when the adviser steps in and points out that crew unity is not good. IMHO, if you don't have it before you leave you won't magically find it on the trail. Best addressed now.

  17. Am I the only one that finds the irony in complaining about camp food as being overly-processed and sneaking off for "real food", while at the same time pumping your body with overly-distilled libations that have more crud in them than the aforementioned "bad food"? ;-)You are safer with a piece of Wonder Bread than some of the alcohol you will find at any watering hole near most scout camps. ;-)

  18. That is sad..... I don't even know what to say' date=' I would go ahead and tighten up the requirements or make the boys met the requirements and let them call and leave. I just couldn't sign off to save my scouting job. They understand that advancement is only one method right???? Do they Eagle and leave?????[/quote']

    Well, may hit Life by 13-14 and then go off and do high school and eventually try to make Eagle in the ramining 3-4 years. This is pretty much how things work in all units locally. Common problem all scoutmasters have. Standing joke really. Those who try to tighten things up get slapped down are replaced because the unit loses scouts who don't want what they perceive as the additional work. I have taken the approach that I would rather have 20 active, interested, strong scouts than 70+ where 2/3 of them are in it for the bling and then good bye. It is for that 1/3 that I stick around at all.

     

    Krampus' date=' My district follows the program. I said you were living a Scoutmaster's nightmare, not that you were that nightmare. Parents should trust the Scout leaders of their son's Troop, to execute the BSA program. Your parents don't, and demand documentation for all decisions made by your Troop's adult leadership. This "culture thing" evidently is the nightmare, and your whole district operates this way. Wow, how sad. How do you have time to be a Scoutmaster, when you're too busy trying to satisfy the demands of your parents? And you're not having any fun? The stress has got to be through the roof. This isn't a Scout program. There's got to be a Troop somewhere that actually runs the BSA program. Go there, fast. I wish you the best. sst3rd[/quote']

    Well, in short, we document everything well, make sure we communicate all guidelines and then, if they have an issue we have chapter and verse to point to. Thankfully I have a type A wife who does all of that (former lawyer) and so the bylaws and troop guidelines are tight as a drum and align with BSA policy. There is not much stress because I am a by the book guy (ex marine) so not an issue. I know the rules, the boys know the rules and we follow them. That said, I apply leeway when the rules (even BSA rules) run contrary to common sense and the boys have fun. We focus on boy-led stuff which po's mom and dad since they think scouting is about the adults doing all the work. My guys want to go to the moon? If they can plan it, raise the funds and build the means to get there we go. Philmont this year is 100% boy-led. I told the advisors to sit and take notes but let the guys do what they want. They did a better job than I could have done.

     

    Back to OA: For me I would have loved to have kept 3-4 boys back. As soon as I mentioned that I was thinking about that one of our TC members called me to complain. Wanted to know why I had the right to do that. I told them I did not think they were ready, they were too weak in camping skills. They wanted me to point to where I get that power from BSA. Hence my question to BD. I am truly interested if there is a policy or at least guidance. Barring that, I simply don't want to fight that fight. If Tommy Crappycamper wants his sash, fine. It won't mean anything to him anyway. I am fighting for that 1/3 who give a darn.

  19. Good luck with that. I just tried to PM you and got blocked!

     

    Yeah me too. Seems that is not working.

     

    I hesitate to post the guy's email address as that is a bit too personal.

     

    I can tell you that there are several organizations who "certify" trainers. Red Cross, Emergency Care and Safety Institute, NOLS, etc. Many of the courses are very similar. I did call my friend locally who is a physician and scouter and created his course because of his passion for scouting and medicine. His recommendation was to link up with the Red Cross. They usually require folks to be trained and certified in basic first aid, advanced first aid, CPR/AED. He ended teaming up with ARC and they sponsored his program.

     

    The BSA seems to say that any of the ARC, ECSI, NOLS or other programs listed on the link below will work for BSA "certification". NOLS, to my knowledge does not certify a competing program but may take your friend on as a local instructor. ARC does a similar thing.

     

    http://www.acacamps.org/accreditation/firstaidcpr

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