YoungBlood

"It's not a southern thing, or a Texas thing. It happens in other areas as well. I'm in the midwest and my son's troop only wants dads (or other male relatives) to go camping with the Troop. I've heard the "male bonding" comment from our leaders. Personally, I don't really want to go camping, so it's not a big deal to me. But there are some moms who want to camp and backpack - why shouldn't they be able to go?"

They shouldn't be able to go because the program wasn't created for them. The program was created for boys. Look I am telling you if you took a vote in my troop, mind you it would have to be a secret vote not to upset moms;-), my troop would vote for males only on camping trips. I am not saying moms don't understand the program or they can't contribute. I am just saying that most boys want to have a chance just to hang with other boys and men.

ASM1, I don't know why you are talking about a venture crew. I am talking about troops and the people on this board have been talking about troops as well. I belong in a venture crew and there are females in it. I have no problem with it and encourage them to come on trips. However, this is not the point. We are talking about BOY SCOUT TROOPS.

ASM1,

I don't think you get my point. Even if she shows men up on the trails she will never be one thing...Male. Men can relate to young boys better than any female ever could. This is because we have been there done that. This is the same for girls, women know them better than us. Please tell me what is wrong with "guy time"? Why can't we have one weekend a month with just guys?

I am sorry, but I am going to go ahead and defend the Texas troop. If you have enough male involvement from the adults then leave it at that! I understand in some troops there just isn't enough help from males to ask females not to camp. This troop isn't asking you not to be involved, they are asking you not to camp. There are plenty of ways for you to help out in other ways. In my several years of scouts I never liked having somebody else's mom on the trip. Even if that mom stayed out of the picture I would rather it be a male. To me Boy Scouts was the one place I went to escape females and the real world in general. It was "guy time". I know first hand that I am not an exception. I have sat around several campfires with older boys and held this very conversation. All of the boys I have known feel the same way. As long as we have enough males going on the trip lets keep it that way! I also know some females that were active in the troop but never went camping with us unless it was a "family trip". Many of these females will tell you that they think it is better for the men to teach the boys and watch them. Who better to shape boys into young men than men who have been there before? Honestly now, is it that horrible that they don't want women going on the camping trips?(This message has been edited by YoungBlood)

I am an ASM and if my son where to come home and tell me that he had to sing in front of the troop because someone thought he lost something (thought, you noticed I said) (not that he would every do that) I would call the SM and ask him what in the blue blazes he was doing, it would not be a calm polite discussion unless he apologized to my son and said he was going to change this bad policy, if not I would hang up call the DE and than the COR. And than your buddy newjersy!

I am sorry, I find this hard understand. If your son had to sing a song for a lost item you would give your scoutmaster he**! I really can't believe this is such a huge deal. I mean come on now, even if he had to sing for an item that was "stolen" what's the big deal? Dan, please tell me exactly why this upsets you so much! Singing is not an punishment. I agree that no scout should be forced to sing but encouraged to do so. Like Rooster said earlier, In our troop if a scout doesn't sing he is given some other small task to complete. If a scout is truly too embarassed to sing then fine yet him do something else. Even if a scout who does sing is slightly embarassed atleast he is overcoming that fear of humilation. After all scouts is about building character! In our troop ANYBODY who loses something has to go through the same requirements to get it back. Meaning even when our scoutmaster loses something he is brought up to sing! As you can imagine the boys love to get an adult up there singing!Hmmmmmmmm....something just came to me! I can't support this singing for lost items anymore! This is clearly punishment! It is punishment to those listening to the Scoutmaster sing!:-)

I hope everyone has a great summer! I myself am off to NCS at Hawk Mountain on June 1st and then to Rodney Scout Reservation for eight and a half weeks as an Aquatics Director! Take care everyone!

NJCubScouter said "You have absolutely no evidence for that statement. There is no reason at all why units that have an anti-gay policy could not share facilities with units that do not discriminate. (Remember, the BSA says that the anti-gay policy is NOT related to youth protection.)"

NJ,

Whats the point of having a local option then? The reason why they can't camp together is not for youth protection reasons. It seems to me if one local area believed it was immoral then I gurantee they wouldn't want to share facilities with a troop that accepts homosexuals. Also, it could easily be the other way around too. The troop accepting homosexuals may not want to camp with a troop that "discriminates". I don't think it would be fair to force either troop to share facilities. This being said, I agree with Rooster7 , it would be a logistical nightmare.

"I'm talking Christian, Muslim and Jewish all together now - THAT troop leader (me, for instance) would have to be an insensitive clod to end a troop prayer with "In Jesus Name We Pray" no matter how trippingly the phrase comes to my lips as a card-carrying UMC member."

SagerScout, I disagree. I see nothing wrong with that as long as you don't make it an every meeting thing. What if the next meeting you let somebody say a muslim pray? As a staff member of a scouting camp this is what we often do. We allow several people of different faiths say their pray throughout the week. If you ask me I would say it is very respectfully done this way. We never have complaints and everybody is now even more aware of the religions and beliefs of others.

Well I don't have the facts....sorry. However I do think you did the right thing. I am sure by tomorrow Bob White will be able to clarify everything up for you!! Also about this patrol of 13-14 year olds. I think the best thing for you to do is to break that patrol up. Put them into other patrols and maybe they will be able to take some leadership in those patrols(Patrol Leader). In my opinion it seems that the older kids that act up in troop meetings are often times bored. Maybe make a few of them troop guides or atleast the ones that are somewhat mature. I know you said that they were lacking leadership skills. However, often times by putting them into a leadership position, with your counseling, they can learn the ropes rather quickly. Just my opinion though!

>Justin

"The "cool" thing is that scouting is so engrained in the americasn culture"

Bob, I disagree. It is not "cool" at all when scouting is engrained in the American culture so negatively. Don't tell me that it isn't. It is indeed. I am only 18 so I remember quite well being harassed by others for being a scout. I know that most teenage boys look upon scouting as a very "uncool thing to do. This is because the American Culture has made it "uncool". Today scouts are not only harassed for being "uncool" but for being "gay haters". Being so engrained in the American culture is only hurting us.

I would agree that ads and commercials for BSA are not exactly "cool" or what a 13 year old is looking for. Take for example the Army and Navy recruiting commercials these day that are very upbeat and exciting to younger people. As somebody who remembers BSA ads and commercials as a 15 year old and even younger I was honestly embarrased to have a non-scouting friend watching it with me. Why? Because I feel like the commercials never show you exactly why kids join scouts. They mostly join to be with friends and to enjoy the outdoors. Why don't we see BSA commercials with kids rock climbing, backpacking, camping, canoeing? Maybe these ads do exist!? But I have never seen them.

Proud Staff Member of Rodney Scout Reservation. It is located in Maryland right on the Chesapeake Bay! If you love to sail, then Rodney is the camp for you(I am not just saying this because I am the Sailing Base Director, but if you do go to Rodney tell them I need a raise!J/K)!

I couldn't agree anymore with you guys. Take me for example, I am majoring in political science and hope to one day be a politican. All of this because the citizenship merit badges triggered an interest in me.:-)

Le Voyageur, I agree with you. The program does fall short in all three of those areas. Although have you ever done other Lifeguard programs? I know that all the other ones I have seen are a joke. BSA lifeguard does a very good job at teaching how to guard at a pool. Any kid that can pass BSA lifeguard can pass the Red Cross and YMCA trainning. I was actually shocked when I read the requirements just now. I didn't realize that everything you said under number one is not covered! The fact is when I earned it and when it is taught at Rodney Scout Reservation we teach all of those things to the applicants. Not only that but we do an LBD with the guys. I don't see anywhere in the Requirements talking about an LBD! Anyway, I think that they should probablly add those to the list of requirements.

yeah, I have heard about our "bronze god" attitude;-) And yes, it is Hawk Mountian PA.

Thanks for the Info. I actually know all about the foam knee pads. Last summer when my friend came back from camp school his knees were scabbed over from the canoe bottom. I am really looking forward to showing Hawk Mountian what I can do!! Sorry, I am an Aquat...we are allowed to be a little cocky;-)

Hi Compdcd,

Unfortunately I can't help you out here. However maybe you can help me out!? I am going to camp school this year at most likely Hawk Mountain. I too am going to be an Aquatics Director this summer at Rodney Scout Reservation on the Chesapeake. So do you know anything about Hawk Mountain?

Thanks, Justin

To be honest, some of you have ruined a wonderful web site with this endless spewing of opinions. I've used this site for good information in the past, but I can no longer stomach this other stuff.

Stan, I suggest you give up or take a sabbatical from the Issues and Politics board. Maybe you will have better luck with it than my dad (Rooster7). However I don't think anybody should stop their "endless spewing of opinions". What would you rather have us do? Pretend we all agree? I think that it is a good sign that people disagree enough to actually say something. It is when people stop voicing their opinions that shows they don't care about the program or direction of the program anymore! As long as we aren't getting personal, than I thank everybody for their "endless spewing of opinions". :-)

Bob,

THIS "Those of us in Commissioner service do have a resposibility to see that local units follow policy and program regulations, and we take that charge earnestly." CONFLICTS WITH THIS "And while I have the floor, you need to get over the idea that Council and District are higher entities"

Aren't you implying that the Council and District can tell a scoutmaster he is wrong. If he is wrong and refuses to change can't the Council and/or District remove him as Scoutmaster. I have always thought that to be true! How is it then, If you aren't a higher entity?

In all honesty, I agree with my Dad (Rooster7). However I would point out to him that Grekonsz's Scoutmaster hasn't even been around for 6 months. He also hasn't been active with the troop for over ten years. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it leads one to believe that the scoutmaster hasn't made as much as a sacrifice as Grekonsz has by dedicating his time and effort's to the program. If this was my scoutmaster, than yes, my dad is correct in saying that I respect him very much and probably wouldn't try to get him in any trouble. The reason for this is because my Scoutmaster has undoubtedly worked hard and sacrificed a lot for the boys in the troop and myself. Once again, I think this is something that Grekonsz needs to think about. If Grekonsz believes that his Scoutmaster has worked hard and made sacrifices for the troop. Then I would say that I would agree more with Rooster7 and DD. If Grekonsz believes that the Scoutmaster hasn't really gained the boys respect and his respect than I stand by my first post.

Grekonsz, I would honestly hope that your scoutmaster is just testing you to see how you react to this problem. Unfortunately, it appears that he is serious. I am 18 years old and received my Eagle Scout when I turned 16. I can't tell you what you should do. I can tell you what I would do however. Collecting 6 longhaired eagle scouts signature is just a way to get around your problem at hand and avoiding the bigger problem. The bigger problem is that your scoutmaster is adding requirements and judging people by their physical appearance. Even if you collect 6 signatures and get your eagle, what is going to happen to the next kid who has a pierced ear or who is a little overweight? Is he going to have to collect signatures too? If it was me, I would tell my scoutmaster that I am going to go to the council with this unless he changes his mind, because what he is doing is unfair and against policy. Just my two cents. Good Luck!

I too have a Whisperlite. It is a quality stove and I highly recommend it.

I have yet to know of a school that teaches homosexuality or sexual "freedom" is okay.

Haven't you heard of high schools handing out condoms after a sex ed class? Or having condom dispenser in the bathrooms. Now, don't tell me that giving a teenager a condom doesn't give him and ideas that sexual "freedom" is ok. Kinda sad they give out condoms but would never consider handing out a scripture tract.

A good game for lashings is an A-frame race. We did this a lot when I was in my troop. Split the troop up in its patrol. Give them the rope and wood needed to make A-frames. Have them quickly assemble their A-frame and after it is inspected for quality of lashings let them carry a scout on it from one point to another. The first patrol to assemble the A-frame correctly and get their scout to the destination wins! I always had fun doing this in my troop.

I advocate Public Schools because it is there the student gets a real sense of who makes up his community and that there are people REALLY different from them in his community and he learns how to relate/deal with them.

As a kid who has been homeschooled since third grade, I just want to point out that I have NEVER had a problem dealing with or relating to somebody who was different. I go to the University of Delaware, which is a very diverse university. Even here at school when I bump into somebody who is different (the kid with the green spiked hair and chains, the homosexual guy sitting next to me in class, the Muslim girl wearing veils) never have I been shocked or uncomfortable to be there. I just wanted to point this out since it is a common misconception by many people that homeschoolers are "sheltered or kept hidden from the real world".

I can't tell you what it has given my boys, since I am only 18 years old. I can tell you what it has given me though. As mentioned by Its Trail Day, Scouts has given me great social skills. I make friends just about where ever I go. Since I was 15 I have worked at Rodney Scout Reservation in Maryland as an Aquatics Instructor. This is one of my favorite places in the world. Why? Because I love my friends at camp. These are friends that I see year round because they are so important to me. These are friends that really do care about each other. Second of all I love to teach younger kids at camp. It has allowed me to discover my passion for kids. I plan on being very involved with kids when I get older. Scouting has taught me all this plus giving me a desire to serve my country. This is apparent to my friends and family through joining the AFROTC program and wanting to be a politican when I get older. Scouting has played a huge part in shaping my life, morals, and goals for the future. Thanks BSA!