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Posts posted by wyomingi

  1. The composites merit bade is not about plywood. Composites are a combination of plastic resin and a fiber reinforcement. The badge is about things like fiberglass, kevlar and carbon fiber. Developing the merit badge was funded by a gift from the M.C. Gill Corporation.


    SR540Beaver, if you could get Lazy Boy to fund it we might get a reclining merit badge.

  2. Things are just to quiet in this forum.


    This country does not have an offical language. The Constitution does not specify what language free speach must be in. Singing the national anthem in Spanish will not prevent anyone from learning English. I would much rather hear the national anthem in Spanish or Navaho or any other language than not hear it at all.





    Spanish Anthem Creating Controversy

    Angela Word, KFOX Associate Producer


    POSTED: 7:17 pm MDT April 28, 2006


    April 28, 2006 -- You may not think of the national anthem as controversial, but a new rendition is rocking not only the airwaves, but the public's opinion.


    The Spanish language recording of America's national anthem debuted on radio stations nationwide Friday evening.


    Creators claim it was recorded to inspire patriotism among the Latino population, but others are calling it the illegal immigrant anthem.


    At least one company that owns five El Paso radio stations has made the decision not to play the anthem regardless of the public's opinion.


    "We will not play that. We just feel that we're doing enough, reporting being involved. You know, we've gone to our extent on how we're going to help out the community," said Joe Garcia, of Entravision Radio.


    "If people are patriotic and they wish to have something in their own language that belongs to this country, I mean, yeah great," said Mike Cruz, of West El Paso.


    The Spanish anthem has already caught the attention of President George W. Bush.


    He stated that while Americans welcome people from all over the world, immigrants should learn to sing the song in English.

  3. I'm struggling with the same issues.


    As I see it a troop can lose its older boys two ways. The first is to not let them participate in age appropriate activities. My sons troop lost most of it's older boys a few years ago because the boys felt they couldn't have fun with the troop. The other way is to have all the older boys join a separate venturing crew.


    I am trying a middle ground. When my son's crew formed a few months ago and I agreed to be advisor I made it clear that if they wanted to use the building and the troop gear, they needed to help plan and participate in troop activities. The crew is small and comes mostly from the troop. All of the boys are registered with both the troop and crew. So far they have arranged a shooting day at a local rife range, helped with the art merit badge, planned a five mile hike for the new scouts and are talking about a canoe day.


    So whats the problem? The adults of course. At a recent campout three boys from the crew went as their own patrol. The rest of the troop went as a troop. None of the boys was designated as PL even though there were boys that are not in the crew who could have been good leaders if they had the chance. The crew went to a venturing cracker barrel. Some of the adults felt they should have stayed with the troop. In the morning the crew cooked their breakfast, cleaned up and packed their own gear. They loaded most of the troop gear in the trucks and helped the younger boys take down tents. The younger boys did a very poor job of cleaning dishes. According to some of the adults this was some how the Venturing crew's fault.


    At the last meeting the SM blew up when one of the boys called the crew a crew. He insists that it's a venturing patrol. I'm not sure what he thinks our one girl is doing. Some of the boys are now talking about looking for a new crew to join.


    At our last meeting with a little pushing from me all of the new boys were assigned to patrols. Hopefully our next campout will be by patrols. I have told the crew to help younger boys if they are asked, but to be careful not to undercut the PL's authority. They are to backup and advise the patrol leader not replace him.


    I am hoping that venturing done right will keep the older boys interested by allowing them to participate in some separate activities that they will enjoy. In return for this I expect them to help the troop. One of the boys told me "We come to scouts for fun and babysit for money."


    / Thanks for letting me vent. :)

  4. Trevorum, Kaji


    Interesting discussion. In this county we make accommodations for the minority all the time. The Americans with Disabilities act requires reasonable accommodation in the workplace. In some parts of the country government documents are available in languages other than English. School cafeterias serve fish on Fridays during Lent for those who prefer not to eat meat. We dont however close government offices on every religious holiday. As Trevorum has said it depends on the specific issue. Exactly when and were the line is drawn will take someone wiser than me to decide.


    What about the other way around? If 95% disapprove and 5% approve of something should the 95% make it illegal? For example, since most people are against animal sacrifice should it be illegal even for religious reasons? Lets assume that the animals are killed humanely and disposed of properly. Should Nazis be allowed freedom of speech? When does free speech cross the line and become incitement to violence?


    My personal opinion is that unless any action can be shown to be harmful to others or society that it should be legal. By being harmful I dont mean offending someone. We are guaranteed many rights by the Constitution, including some such as privacy that are not explicitly written down. I dont believe there is a right not to be offended.


  5. Dan,


    There are Scientology Charter Organizations.


    It struck me toward the end the World War II that I never would have gotten through the war alive had it not been for the training I had had in scouting. Of all the various information which became important to me, such as photography, wood lore, signaling and many other subjects, the basis of it was laid in scouting. I am very indebted to a great many, very fine men who gave their time and attention to a restless, boisterous and extremely active boy and teenager

    L. Ron Hubbard, Founder, Church of Scientology


    I'm not a Scientologist but thought this was interesting.

  6. What music can you and the scouts in your vehicle agree on when on your way to a campout? On a recent trip I let the boys pick CDs on the way to the campout and I picked them on the way back. I discovered that I hate Weird Al. I dont care for Nirvana or AC/DC. Greenday is not too bad. The boys thought Stevie Ray Vaughn, Pink Floyd, The Who and the Grateful Dead were all right.


    Any ideas? What about lyrics that are not appropriate? How do you know with out previewing the CD what is there? How can you understand what is there?


  7. What? Christmas displays are illegal? I seem to recall some just a few months ago. Its great that we are all allowed to practice what ever religion (or none) that we want and openly celebrate the holidays. Its also great that we dont have to pay taxes to support others religions.


    If we lived in the society that LongHaul advocates it wouldnt be long before some demagogue, wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross, would whip up 51% of a community and get them to declare a native born, white, fundamentalist Christian, republican only area. Democracy must be more than simply majority vote. The rights of the minority must be protected. Striking down laws does not limit freedom, passing laws does.


  8. I dont know what disturbs me more, the continuing revelations of government abuse of rights or the lack of public reaction. What makes anyone think that the government wont want to continually expand its powers? The steps taken so far have been small. The patriot act; wiretapping with out a warrant; and watching antiwar protesters, environmental groups and religious organizations are all small step toward restricting freedom. Once these are accepted what is next?


    Th following is from yesterday's Washington Post


    FBI Took Photos of Antiwar Activists in 2002

    By Dan Eggen

    Washington Post Staff Writer

    Wednesday, March 15, 2006

    An FBI agent in Pittsburgh photographed members of an antiwar activist group in 2002, according to documents released yesterday by the American Civil Liberties Union, which said the disclosure marks the latest incident in which the FBI has monitored left-leaning groups.

    An FBI report from November 2002 indicates that an agent photographed members of the Thomas Merton Center as they handed out leaflets opposing the impending war in Iraq. The report called the group a "left-wing organization advocating, among many political causes, pacifism."

    The same memo notes that one of the leaflet distributors "appeared to be of Middle Eastern descent" but that no other participants appeared to be from the Middle East.

    "All we were doing was handing out leaflets, which is a perfectly legal way to spend an afternoon," said Tim Vining, the center's former executive director, who said he participated in the Nov. 24, 2002, protest monitored by the FBI. "All we want to do is exercise our First Amendment rights . . . Is handing out fliers now considered a terrorist activity?"

    The FBI said in a statement that the agent was "acting with all appropriate investigative authorities" as part of an ongoing terrorism probe. The photos were destroyed once the agent determined that a person under investigation was not in attendance at the event, the FBI said.

    The incident is the latest disclosure by the ACLU involving antiwar protesters, environmental groups and religious organizations that have been monitored by FBI agents or other anti-terrorism investigators.

    Another memo from February 2003 said the center was "opposed to the United States' war with Iraq" and described its Web site and activities. That letter was a draft that was never included in an investigative file, the FBI said.

    Heavily censored documents from 2005 also refer to information about the center from an unidentified source. An FBI official said those reports were from a separate probe that did not involve terrorism.


  9. It is clear to me that our founding fathers meant to protect the minority against the will of the majority. That is why we have a republic not a democracy. As James Madison said when discussing democracy in the Federalist Papers "there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual."


    John Adams said "It is...as necessary to defend an individual against the majority in a democracy as against the king in a monarchy."


    Thomas Jefferson said, "The minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

    And James Madison, wrote this: "It is of great importance in a republic not only to guard the society against the oppression of its rulers but to guard one part of the society against the injustice of the other part."


    If the authors of the Bill of Rights wanted our rights to be narrowly interpreted why did they write "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people"?



  10. Rooster,


    Are saying that there should be no protection of the minority from the tyranny of the majority? If the majority passes a law requiring students to recite the pledge of allegiance even if it violated their religious beliefs is that right? Can ministers be prohibited from serving in a state legislature if it is the will of the majority? School segregation was once popular. Should it therefore been legal? If a municipality bans baptism on public property should the minority who wishes to use the property for that purpose be forced to elect new representatives?


    These are examples of why we have a constitution that guarantees freedoms and courts that will ensure that the supreme law of the land is followed.


  11. While I think the public concern over security at the ports is overdone and is being stirred up for political ends, I also think that the Bush administration is getting what it deserves. They whipped up public support for the invasion of Iran by implying a connection between Saddam Hussein and the 9/11 attacks. Now they see no problem with dealing with a county with strong ties to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. Public statements by our president continually emphasize that we are at war with terror and that he has been given extraordinary power to limit freedom in this country. If this is the case then shouldnt he be subjecting this deal to extraordinary scrutiny?


    I would like to know if our government will be listening to the port operators phone calls.


  12. Backpacker,


    I checked the USDA web site. The most recent information I could find was from 1997. At that time about 1% of all agricultural land was foreign owned. Maine had the most foreign owned acreage. That was nearly all forest owned by Canadian and French companies.

  13. All politicians should be required to complete the Citizenship in the Nation Merit Badge before taking office. Requirement 7 would help some of them.


    "Name the three branches of our federal government and explain to your counselor their functions. Explain how citizens are involved in each branch. For each branch of government, explain the importance of the system of checks and balances."


  14. Fgoodwin


    Article III clearly grants the Congress the right to establish courts with special jurisdictions such as granting wire taps and to some extent limiting what cases the SCOTUS can hear. It does not grant Congress the right to violate the Fifth Amendment:


    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


    Appeal to the SCOTUS is part of due process of law. If this was not the case couldnt Congress pass a law making criticism of elected officials illegal and deny the courts the right to strike down the law?


  15. Last night the boys were told that there will be a new first class requirement starting in January. They will have to discuss scouting with a friend and invite him to a meeting. Some of the boys pointed out that they have already met this requirement. In fact 3 or four of them had got a friend to join scouts. Can they be signed off on the requirement in January or will they have to repeat it?

  16. I'm not a lawyer, I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but this sounds like a violation of Section 9525 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, as amended by Section 901 of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The act states


    "... no public elementary school, public secondary school, local educational agency, or State educational agency that has a designated open forum or a limited public forum and that receives funds made available through the Department shall deny equal access or a fair opportunity to meet to, or discriminate against, any group officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America".


    Any scouter in San Diego who has lost a meeting place can contact the Department of Education Office for Civil Rights at:


    San Francisco Office

    Office for Civil Rights

    U.S. Department of Education

    Old Federal Building

    50 United Nations Plaza, Room 239

    San Francisco, CA 94102-4102

    Telephone: 415-556-4275

    FAX: 415-437-7783; TDD: 877-521-2172


    The rest of us can argue about it below. To point out the difference between access and sponsorship I also want to include the following section of the same law.


    "Nothing in this section shall be construed to require any school, agency, or a school served by an agency to sponsor any group officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America"


    Boy Scout Injured While Sledding

    Jul. 18, 2005


    PROVO, Utah (AP) -- A 12-year-old Spanish Fork Boy Scout was injured while sledding down a snow field near Mount Nebo and was carried out by rescuers.


    Utah County sheriff's officers says the youth had cuts on his head and face and some of his teeth were broken in the accident just before one p.m. Saturday.


    The accident happened at ten-thousand, 700 feet in the Wolf Pass area.


    After the boy was transported out by horseback, a Juab County ambulance took him to Mountain View Hospital in Payson.


    Sheriff's Sergeant Tom Hodgson said the youth was tired and hot, but otherwise in good spirits and good condition.

  18. Have a Webelos night in the late fall or early winter. Invite the Webelos in your area to attend a troop meeting. Have your scouts plan activities that the cub scouts can participate and will enjoy. Scout games, outdoor cooking (desert), a square knot tying race, skits, or whatever your boys think is fun and the Webelos can do. Try to coordinate with the AOL requirements.


    While this is going on have one or two scouters take the adults aside and tell them about Boy Scouts and your troop. What activities do you participate in every year? What are your fund raisers? Explain the differences between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, explain what boy led means and what the adult leaders do.


    I think one of the reasons that Cub Scouts dont crossover is that they think scouting is for kids. When they associate with older boys and know what Boy Scouts is about they want to join. This seems to happen at age 10 or 11. The BSA understands boys!


    Good luck. Have plenty of applications available.


  19. There is certainly enough anticdodal evidence that there is a problem that a study should be done to either prove or disprove the idea that LDS Scouts get lost and killed more. The stories posted above and below show a gross lack of adult supervision and a disregard of the g2ss.


    Two more stories:


    On Friday, August 6, 2004 , Martin Lind, age 14, took a 40-foot tumbling fall while hiking in Zion National Park . The boy suffered numerous but not life threatening injuries. He is from Orem , Utah , and was hiking with a Boy Scout Troop. At 11:30 a.m. a national park owl researcher working in the Left Fork of North Creek, also known as "The Subway," contacted the Boy Scout group just as Lind fell. She immediately radioed park dispatch and the search and rescue team was mobilized. A park medic was flown by helicopter to within a half-mile and was on scene by 2:00 p.m. This section of the canyon is 300 feet deep. The safest way to raise Lind to the top was by using a technique called a "reeve." A 450 foot rope was stretched taut across the top of the canyon. From that, a park ranger was lowered the 300 feet to the patient, who was then raised to the top and pulled to the edge of the canyon. He was then carried to the helicopter and flown to a waiting ambulance at 7:00 p.m. and transported to Dixie Regional Medical Center in St. George. Over twenty people were involved in the rescue. The three group leaders had traveled the Subway in the past; however, the seven Scouts in the group were spread out ahead of them. Being unfamiliar with the route, they made a wrong turn at a critical junction and descended into the canyon down a steep slope. About 40 feet from the bottom, Lind tumbled to the canyon floor. "The Subway" is a narrow canyon in the Kolob Terrace section of the park that has become a popular canyoneering route in recent years. It is a strenuous 9 mile hike requiring extensive route finding and technical rope skills. It also requires swimming through several pools of cold, debris-filled water. Permits are required for hiking most canyons in Zion National Park . Canyoneering requires the proper equipment, advanced planning, technical skills, and good judgment.




    Three Boy Scouts on a troop outing tossed a 190 million-year-old set of dinosaur tracks into a reservoir last week, prompting a park ranger to call on Scout leaders to do a better job of teaching environmental ethics. Curt Sinclear, the park ranger who saw the boys vandalizing the rocks at Red Fleet State Park in eastern Utah, said Friday he was "angry , sad and disappointed that the Boy Scout's environmental message is getting lost." "What are they teaching these kids?" said Sinclear , who was a Boy Scout as a youth. "To me this is a double blow, because we've lost something irreparable and these were Boy Scouts that should have been supervised." Kay Godfrey, information officer for Great Salt Lake Council of the Boy Scouts of America, said the Scouts take responsibility for the incident and may review their policies to avoid vandalism in the future. Virginia Harrington/Vernal Express (AP) * STATE PARK *RANGER Mike Murray points to a partial dinosaur print that is the only remaining track of a three-point track severely damaged by Boy Scouts at Red Fleet State Park near Vernal, Utah, July 20. According to officials, three Boy Scouts dug out chunks of the 190 million-year-old set of dinosaur tracks and threw the rocks into a reservoir, irreparably damaging the prehistoric find. "This reflects a disregard for the principles that Scouting promotes," Godfrey said. "It ought to be a warning to our leaders to always be aware of their surroundings and conscious of the conduct of our youth." Sinclear said he witnessed last Thursday's destruction, seeing the. splashes in the water caused by the two boys throwing the prehistoric rocks at floating buoys. One of the 15-year-old boys, whose name is not being released, put his fingers into cracks in the dinosaur tracks and pried them apart. Two other boys threw the chunks, while a fourth boy stood near-by, according to Sinclear. More than 120,000 visitors every year marvel at the site near Vernal where about 300 dinosaur tracks are preserved in beds of sandstone. The tracks are about a foot long and 8 inches wide, according to Jim Kirkland, the state's paleontologist. At least three tracks were destroyed. Although there are other Dilophosaurus "track ways," or more than three tracks made by the same dinosaur, these were among the best, Kirkland said. The tracks, which appear to have three toes, some with claws extended, were caused by meat-eating dinosaurs that came to an oasis to drink. The prints help scientists learn about the way dinosaurs move and their inclination to herd. By ripping up the slabs, the boys left two scars, each about 6 inches deep, on the ground near the water. One was about 3 feet by 2 feet, the other just over a foot long, The dinosaur tracks are normally available for the public to look at and walk on. Kirkland said that is unlikely to change. Officials said it may be possible to find some of the thrown pieces. However, much of the rock was broken and would be difficult to put together again, Sinclear said. The boys were unsupervised on the shore because their troop leader took other boys for a ride in a boat. The group had been hiking and water-skiing in the area. Three of the boys claimed they did not know they were destroying dinosaur prints when they ripped up the slabs. The fourth boy, who did not participate, said he knew what was being destroyed and that's why he didn't join in. Kirkland said a descriptive sign about the tracks had been vandalized and was not visible. He said the signs may have helped reinforce the importance of the tracks. Sinclear filed a juvenile citation against the three boys. He said the boys and the Scout leader should be punished with community service and fines. Federal, state and local agencies are discussing jurisdiction. The boy's names have not been released, nor has the Boy Scout troop number. There are about 150,000 Boy Scouts in Utah.



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