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wojauwe

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Posts posted by wojauwe

  1. NJ,

    Yea I know I should exspect the over analysis and the search for something to be outraged about,in a forum on issues and politics.I still had to chime in since I know the camp and the people.I know that the hazeing whether physical or emotional is

    not the accepted policy at the camp.I can see where you can dig those things out of the article.I have no idea what the context was that brought the words to the reporter and neither do any of you.

    my concern is mostly that these are real people that these

    supposed violations are being attributed to.Ther names and locations are given in the article whereas this is a group of anonymous participants in this forum and some of the attack stuff is being focused on not so anonymous people who are not there to defend themselves.

    If you want to spin off into another thread that focuses on the concept of different forms of hazing and the harms,I'd be

    good with it.I agree completely with the no hazing rules and abhor the thought that the scouting program would be a place where bullying physical or emotional is tolerated.

    The staff pranks I mentioned are good natured rivalries between two groups of enthusiastic staffers.There on the nature of 2 sides of a campfire haveing a "We've got spirit how about you" yell off.

  2.  

    Wow this is amazing.I'm sure the director had no clue what the article was going to look like.It looks like something

    that developed out of lots of questions being asked to him while he was showing off the pride and joy of the council.

    First the reporter has pieced together what he thought would make a good story.Now those pieces are being dissected by you guys.

    I'd lay you odds that he has no idea that he was saying anything controversal.I know the camp program doesn't include the hazeing elements talked of in the article.How those things came into the conversation,who knows.

    I know that the staff plays pranks on the staff of the WEBELOS

    resident camp right next to them and get them played on them.

    One of my sons works at the WEBELOS camp and they made copies of their camp flag and ran them up every flag pole in the

    other camp.

    They refrain from anything hurtfull.

  3. I beleive Meryln is looking for a job writing for the Enquirer.He sifted through a nice camp promotion article to find a few lines that could be twisted to create a controversal

    headline.

    So when did ignoring or not ignoreing a scout rule come into

    play here?Todd gave a realistic appraisal of the variety of

    campers enjoying a week next to the Pacific.Unless someone is using the camp as a pulpit from which they preach atheisim,

    the camp director has nothing to do with peoples private beleifs.

    I know the people in this article,Don much more than the others.He is amazing at useing the beauty of the camp to help anyone feel closer to God,and he can do this without alieanating anyone.Even the Atheist will have a brush with his spiritual side.He just won't have the word to explain what he feels.

     

  4.  

    Like I said the boy needs to at least show up.You can't help them if they are not there.We have not done our duty if we allow credit without any effort.Definitely we need to help and support,I never implied otherwise.We do JLT training in troop

    we always talk with our youth leaders to help them out.

    If the scout makes the minimum effort of being there he has all of the help he could use.

  5. Eamonn

    I'm sorry but expecting a boy to do something more than wear

    a patch in order to get his leadership requirement is not exactly a sly or back door tactic for slowing a boy's advancement.

    This boils down to fullfilling the requirement no more no less.

    no judgement of quality of leadership is involved,but it

    would be nice if a patrol leader showed up at PLC,s or arranged for a proxy if he can't make it.

    It's always a learning process and all I ask is that they make an effort.

  6.  

    I understand the frustration that would drive a leader to put an age requirement on Eagle.As has been stated,no can do.

    My main concern has always been that boys are makeing it to Eagle without ever showing any leadership.

    One of the big problems I've seen is that the way the rules are written a boy has fullfilled the leadership requirements as long as he was on the books as a leader.Many times the boy never did the job.

    Something we attempted when I was advancement chair was to

    give the PLC and Scoutmaster the option to take a person out of a leadership job if they are not doing at least the minimum.

    Age isn't always a good measuring stick.Actions are.

    We weren't able to get my system working very well,but I thought if it was done well we could hold boys to a little higher standard for advancement.

    Philosophies change,I'm not as involved in the troop right now and We have a very aggressive AC and she's turning troop into an Eagle mill.I was appalled last night at Committee meeting when she complained about lack of positions for people

    to use for advancements.She suggested that we add a second

    Chaplain's assistant.In our troop this position involves putting together Sunday chapel at monthly campout.

    It's hard for me to take pride in the number of Eagles coming from troop when it's being made so easy.It's not fair to the boys to get the Eagle Badge without becoming an Eagle.

    It's more common to hear a boy speak of how easy it was than to hear them talk about the challenges they overcame and the things they learned.

  7. Our troop uses a weekend outing to have a troop wide JLT for all junior leaders.You can get the materials at your scoutshop.

    Going through the exercises together helps develope a sense of team leadership within the troop.

    Stress and lack of leadership tools gained from formal training may have a lot to do with your SPL going over the edge.

    Your PLC should be producing a written plan for upcoming meetings so that ASPL should have information he needs if SPL misses meeting.We do PLC's monthly.

    Our current SPL has started the process of doing a reflection

    after each meeting.He asks what went right or wrong and why.

    Also asks how can we make it better.If a leader has the support of a leadership team it can take a lot of the pressure off.

    It's hard for someone who does not know the people in your troop to give you more than broad advice on how to deal with

    your situation.I'm still troubled by the violence involved in

    the situations you've described.

    SPL definitely needs to have a serious talk with adult leader to get to the root of the problem.Give him the chance to change.

    Though troop should be youth run,adults need to be more closely involved if there is a youth protection or safety issue.

     

  8. This could be a bigger issue than the boy being a poor leader.

    Hitting a boy with a chair is totally unacceptable and can be reason to kick a boy out of the troop.Not a first option though.

    This calls for a Scoutmaster talk and a disscusion with troop committee.If your SPL is using his position to bully then it's

    in violation of the safe haven part of scouting and becomes an adult issue.

    It may be time to have a new election.

     

  9. FB

    WEll like I said their choice was guided by length of name.

    They had been my strongest chapter chiefs and we had a playfullness to our relationships.

    Sounds like you have a better grasp of the language than I.

    I've never worked on the translations before other than getting some feedback on the options we had for someone I knew.

    W

  10. glad you filed it. should be automatic.

    Another point of interest,tour permits are used in some councils as a way to track the health of a unit.If they are regualrly going on outings,it's a sign of a healthy program.

    If it appears that there is no activity,then unit commisioners

    can use that as a sign that they may want to check up on them and see if they need any help.

  11.  

    OOPs! I didn't edit very well.

    "Sometimes I think the spirit of the nominators suggested name." should be

    Sometimes I think the spirit of the nominators suggested name is not captured in the alternative .

  12.  

    This probably should be a different thread.It was brought up here though.

    Often times we will get a great English name suggested for a new Vigil but the translation to Lenni Lenape causes some problems and we try to find something close.Sometimes I think

    the spirit of the nominators suggested name.I hope Proud Eagle's statement the we can use other native lanquages is true,We'll check on it maybe it will broaden our choices some.

    As for respectfull.I was initially not happy with my name when it was given.My son and my first chapter chief when I became Advisor were the ones who chose my name and once they explained their thinking,I was good with it.

    Quilawelensitchewagan Wojauwe loosly translates as Distressed

    Leader,there were several shorter ways of saying it but Robbin

    and Travis found the longest name that would fit line on nametag.They explained that when I came into my Advisor role I had great expectations of what a chapter with so many members

    could accomplish.It had never occurred to me that there would be such a small percentage of those who were willing to help.

    Thus my disstress.I was told that if that situation were to change,I would still be disstressed, when I tried to pronounce my name.To others my name may not seem respectfull but knowing

    that it was chosen by the ones who had shared my challenges and shared my dreams and helped us get closer,I wear it with pride.

     

     

  13. FB

    My apologies I read more into this line than I should have

    " As for political action or politics, I have always known the OA to be the hotbed of political action on all levels. I am not sure that one can arrange for it not to happen. "

    It also seemed like you'd ignored my post since you responded to Proud Eagle as if his comment on EBoard being selection committee had to do with you when it was to me.

    In my long winded way I was trying to express how our method

    discouraged the DE getting Vigil automatically just for being

    a DE.

    I got caught up in things and should of gone back and reread

    your post before putting in mention of it.

    Again my apologies.

     

     

  14. It appears that maybe Fuzzy has chosen to ignore me.

    Actually the way our set up is with the chapter chiefs and lodge officers being the selection committee has not created any political issues.These are the active youth in our lodge

    and with 25 or 26 (they've been merging some districts) chapters represented.There is a better chance that an obscure

    scout or scouter would have some one on the committee who knows them.

    Any scout or scouter in the Council, OA or not can submit a nomination.The committee hears the reading of the reasons for reccomendation.Then if someone knows the person they can speak on their behalf or sometimes against.And as I said in earlier

    post we strictly follow the criteria for selection I quoted from handbook.If a person brings up rank ,office or tenure they are stopped and the selection criteria is made clear.They

    can still give the persons rank and offices.But everyone needs to know that there needs to be something beyond that.

    It's true that these are elected officers doing the voting

    but how is it less political if a small group is selected by the top leaders?

    Most of us have no idea who has had a a form sent in.

    The members of our executive board are scatterd over a very large area and variety of chapter program styles.

    Our system was set up the way it is because the earlier system

    could be too easily manipulated by Adults in high offices.

    The youth officers are constanly changing from year to year,it

    would be very difficult for this group to do much in the way of

    political manipulations.

    It's true that nothing is perfect and you can find flaws in any method.

    The most common avenue for abuse is that if only one person on

    board knows nominee,that person's selection rides on the oratory skills of the speaker.Advisors and youth can speak.

    This is one reason for the repetition of the criteria,it takes the edge off of an adult who is listing off a long list of titles and offices to awe the voters.(useually an adult speaking about an adult).

    I've been present at 5 selection sessions and what I've seen

    has strengthened my faith in the integrity of our youth leaders.Much of what I've heard in critisism has hinged on a

    lack of integrity on the part of our brothers.It is sad for me to think that this is a common problem.

    True it is present but my experiance has shown it to be an exception not a rule.

    If FB's experiance has been as stated then there is something seriously wrong with the OA were he is seeing it.

    Yours in Brotherhood,

    Quilawelensitchewagan Wojauwe

  15.  

    before our current vigil selection commitee chair(might be wrong term)started monitoring our selections there was a good deal of politics influencing selections and often times there were adults selected just because they held certain positions.

    Now anytime a reason for chosing a person strays,we get to hear this paragraph from the OA handbook.

    "The vigil Honor is a high mark of distinction and recognition

    reserved for those arrowmem who,by reason of [exceptional service,personal effort and unselfish interest,have made distinquished contributions beyond their position or office to

    one or more of the following:their lodge,the Order of the Arrow,Scouting or their Scout camp.]Under no circumstances should tenure in Scouting or the Order of the Arrow be considered as reason enough for Vigil Honor recomendation"

    Strong emphasis placed on bracketed part.

    during the day of selection we hear these words at least a dozen times,it's traditional that a tally is taken of times this comes up,we have it deeply ingrained.

    Some of the older youth are real good at spotting the points of disscusion that will generate the chant and will give Larry a pained look before he begins the litany.

    the rules stated by FB are folowed.

    Our Lodges bylaws set the structure of selection committee.

    We have 25 Chapters split into 3 service areas. Chapters and service areas have chiefs and advisors.Lodge has chief and 4

    different focus Vice chiefs each with advisors.This is our lodge executive council as well as our Vigil selection commitee.

    As with all lodge votes there must be a quorum of voting youth.We do not allow Vigil eligable members to be present.

    They can send an approved proxy, So Board is mostly Vigil

    with some ordeal and less than 2year Brotherhood members.

    The adult selection is very difficult,As Fuzzy said there can be no more adults selected than youth,and we always have quite a few more adult nomination forms to consider than youth.

    Our lodge can select 50 vigil members,this year we had 40 last year 26.There were not a lot of Vigil eligable youth to be

    nominated.

    there have been years though when we've had a bumper crop of

    eligable and deserving youth.we do not even consider adults

    until the youth selection is done.It is possible that we would have no space for an adult,eccept for proffesionals who do not count on the quota.I don't know of that happening but the percentage has been heavy toward the youth side before.

    The political make up in the OA is different from Lodge to Lodge depending on the people involved.Sometimes people are chosen for the wrong reasons.

    This has occurred in our Lodge's past,but our current makeup works well for selecting people who reflect the spirit of the Honor.The only one selected from my chapter this year is a scoutmaster who has no elaborate titles in his resume.He is very low profile.But he is at every service project.If you work

    beside him and keep up, you have worked your butt off.

    When his troop goes to summer camp he finds a service project that will take up the week and involve anyone who finds themselves with nothing to do.This man is the heart of service and is a fine example of what Vigil is.I felt more pleasure in his selection than my own.

  16. I've put together customised certificates and used relevent photos as back ground.Each one is personalised.

    It's neat I gave them to my staff at a district merit badge workshop.It was covered with pictures of the staff at their stations teaching.

    Something with pictures of the group you are honoring and maybe photos of the camp and campers the money raised,helped support.

    I buy some really nice photo quality paper to do these.If you can afford it,they could be framed.

     

    I've got one of those thank you, scout pins I was given as a cubscouter about 12 years ago.I don't think it was any kind of official award,just something that you could buy to show thanks

    to adult volunteers.

    I think you can still find them in the scout shop.

  17. You need to get a seperate charter as Venture crew rather than as a patrol within the troop.This could be difficult with

    such a small group.Also to get your charter you will need registered adult advisors.You need both male and female adults if you are doing coed.

    the crew should be run by the youth with adult support.

    It will be a challenge but it sounds like the connection with the troop is limiting your ability to function as a venture crew.

    Talk with your scout proffesionals and find out what you need to do to get your own charter.One thing for sure though is you will need to recruit some people who share your youths vision for the crew.

    I wish I could give you some specific advice,but the attitude towards Venturing is different from area to area.

    When I see my son this weekend I'll ask him if he knows of

    where you can look for training information(he's been active

    on our councils Venture cabinet for a few years now).

    What council are you in?Travis knows some people in National

    leadership positions and maybe he can get a name for you to

    talk to.

    No promises but it's worth a try.

  18. You need to get a seperate charter as Venture crew rather than as a patrol within the troop.This could be difficult with

    such a small group.Also to get your charter you will need registered adult advisors.You need both male and female adults if you are doing coed.

    the crew should be run by the youth with adult support.

    It will be a challenge but it sounds like the connection with the troop is limiting your ability to function as a venture crew.

    Talk with your scout proffesionals and find out what you need to do to get your own charter.One thing for sure though is you will need to recruit some people who share your youths vision for the crew.

    I wish I could give you some specific advice,but the attitude towards Venturing is different from area to area.

    When I see my son this weekend I'll ask him if he knows of

    where you can look for training information(he's been active

    on our councils Venture cabinet for a few years now).

    What council are you in?Travis knows some people in National

    leadership positions and maybe he can get a name for you to

    talk to.

    No promises but it's worth a try.

  19. Definitely have all the back up you can.Never count on just one location.It would be great and is advisable that the boy keep the blue cards for back up.

    AS advancement chair I kept a personal record and made sure Scoutmaster had it in his records,both hard copy and on troop master.Luckily our council has been pretty good with it but they are not perfect.As long as one of these locations has the record there should be no problem.

    If there is a problem at council level they will come to the troop first to check record.The scouts part of the card is to

    cover for a total meltdown of process.

    If you are concerned about the blue card you can go to the councilor and ask him to make a replacement for lost card.

  20.  

    I don't think my son had any of his blue cards when he got his Eagle.As long as all of the paperwork for the merit badge

    is turned in at council when he earned the badge,there should be no problem.

    If everything has been done properly the badge will not be contested.The merit badge councilor should have his record if

    there is any question.

    Your advancement chair also should have the units copy of the advancement form that was submitted to council.

    I don't know many boys that don't lose their part of the blue card.

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