willhi1979

I'm a Christian, Vigil Member of the OA, and Freemason. The rituals of Freemasonry and the OA are similar, but there are some similarities that used to exist that have been removed over time. The Ordeal (First Degree) ritual prior to 1921 have been lost. The Ordeal (First Degree) Ritual was rewritten by Dr. William M. Hinkle who was a Freemason in 1921, and he also wrote the Brotherhood (Second Degree) Ritual and started the 3 ritual system we have today, prior to that, the Vigil Honor was the Second Degree. Goodman and Edson were not Masons at the founding, but Goodman later became a Mason. There's no evidence that Edson was a Mason. Since that time, we've seen some changes that have made the rituals less Masonic, but there are still some similarities there. It seems like certain Catholics have issues with any society that maintain some level of secrecy, but they have the Knights of Columbus which practices secrecy as well.

As a District Training Chair, I've only been requested once in the past three years to offer Varsity Training. I said I could do it, but it looks like the Team didn't end up forming so the class wasn't held. You are likely out of the Training Chair's comfort zone since we typically deal primarily with Cub and Boy Scouting and some with Venturing. It's also possible that he feels like training one leader isn't enough to invest the time as it's a eight hour course plus preptime. It's also tough to listen to the same person for that amount of time so he might be worried about presenting it all himself. Many Councils also require that you take a course before you teach it and that you teach it before you direct it. It's possible that that prohibition is preventing his interest.

If I were you, I'd contact the Council Training Chair or VP and ask if there were any Varsity Training Courses planned or if one could be put on. There's a possibility that there would be a greater need for it at a Council Level. Be careful not to talk bad about your District Training Chair though even though he probably deserves it... You could also ask the Council VP if they would issue a card since it seems like you have done a lot of self-study training. The worst thing that could happen is that they would say no and direct you to the District Training Chair. You could also look at your surrounding Councils and see if any of them have a stronger Varsity Scout program and offer the course.

Additionally, it's kind of odd to form a team for this. Are you in a LDS Unit? I know that they are typically one of the biggest users of Teams due to their structuring of the Priesthoods. If you aren't LDS, I personally wouldn't understand the Committee's Reasoning.(This message has been edited by willhi1979)

It's also important to note that Chartered Organization Representatives are voting members of the Council as well as the Executive Board. Most of the time they don't realize that they are allowed to vote on Council Business.

I don't know if everyone knows, but Cub Scout Training changed over the summer. There are now two modules that are done with all the Cub Leaders, Intro to Cub Scouting and How We Have Fun. Those two modules are 1.5 hours. The next 1.5 hours are the breakouts, there is one for Tiger Den Leaders, Cub Den Leaders, Webelos, Cubmaster, Pack Committee, and Pack Trainer. I'd encourage you to take the training for Cubmaster, your Den Leader position, and other positions you take on. The other you might want to pick up a copy of the syllabus and read it for a better understanding of how the program works. I wouldn't take 1.5 hours of each of the breakouts though, that would add up and take a lot of Saturdays. You could always do one or two a year though. It's also possible that your District might offer just the breakouts to target leaders that have already taken the common modules.

I'm a District Training Chair, and in the Council I serve in, the Trainer Development Course costs $25 includes lunch, snacks, materials, and a training card, it's also eight hours of training plus some Council specific info. The District Committee Workshop is the only training that I've attended for free, that's covered by the Council. Whenever I have helped with a course, there hasn't been a Staff Fee and any costs, primarily food, has been covered by the course budget. That's how I handle it when I run courses as well. I haven't staffed Wood Badge, but I did pay a fee that was half the participant fee when I staffed Powderhorn.

Eagle92,

I don't know why you couldn't allow him and invite him to see the ceremony. I'm sure it would be an appreciated gesture. There's no requirement that you have to be in a Lodge to see it's Ceremonies. It's also usually very interesting to see how each Lodge does things, there are some differences in each Lodge. The Vigil is probably the one that I've seen the most differences in the execution, I've attended three different Lodge's Vigils. I've visited another Lodge's Vigil when I was a Section Officer and saw their Brotherhood Ceremony when I was there as a ASM during Summer Camp.

YITB,

Will

P.S. You also might have another Out of Lodge Visitor if I can work out my schedule this year. I'll be at NLATS a couple weeks after your Fellowship, and I might have to do a Troop Committee Challenge class that day for a local Troop. Send me a PM or e-mail, and we can chat. Hope you and the wife are doing well.(This message has been edited by willhi1979)

I'd encourage you to get active again as well. I'd find a Troop to work with and help if I were you. I'm sure a local Troop would be glad to have you. I think as you start to take training and learn the role, you show the parents that you can do it and are capable. I think that initially they might judge you and question your involvement, but as you get involved and do the right thing, those questions will go away.

I'm a 29 year old Scouter who is currently a District Training Chair. I was asked to serve there three years ago after I got involved at the Unit Level again in 2003 when I was 24. Through college, I was just doing OA Stuff and had no Unit level involvement, I was a paper registration at the Troop back home. Now I've transfered Lodges and Councils to the one I live in and am active there. I'd strongly encourage you to get involved again. It seems like you want to do it for the right reasons, and we always need leaders who are there for the kids.(This message has been edited by willhi1979)

The National OA Policy for Call-outs is contained in the Guide to Inductions. Chapter 3 of this document discusses the Callout Ceremony and the Callout Guidelines. You can access the Guide at the link below, the password is the admonition.

http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/gti/Guide-to-Inductions1-6-and-Appendix.pdf

The guide doesn't address tapping directly, but it could be argued that the tapping is too rough and is hazing. You can find the words on that on the top of page 21 on the Guide linked above, the guide wouldn't let me copy the words out. The wording of the Policy leaves it somewhat open to interpretion. It could also be argued that the tapping violates Symbolic Progression since similar tapping is used in the Ordeal Ceremony.

Nope, I'm in SR-7B.

My Council has had some young Wood Badgers as well. I took it when I was 26 and a 20 year old was there at the same time. A couple years later, we had a 18 or 19 year old do it who had served on Youth Staff in prior years. I'd say go ahead and take it if you want to. You'll learn something. It's also similar to the OA's National Leadership Seminar. If you've taken that, you'll see some of the same content used.

It took me about 20-30 minutes I think to finish it, all green. I didn't keep track of how many months though.

Where do you live Belinda? I'm a District Training Chair in Cary, NC, and we're a few hours from the USS Yorktown in Charleston. Occoneechee Council headquartered in Raleigh, NC has one or two BALOO courses coming up that you might be able to attend. I think it's debatable whether or not staying on the aircraft carrier is camping out. I'd personally err on the side of it being considered camping out. I'd also say that complying with BSA Policy and having a tour permit is critical.(This message has been edited by willhi1979)

Is the BALOO patch a round? It doesn't sound like it, but my local National Scout Shop does sell a round patch for BALOO training.

The Section I'm in varies the activities each year, a Lodge is responsible for selecting the events and running it. There has been one fixture the last few years, the Lodge Chief/Lodge Adviser Egg Toss.

The IOLS Syllabus states the type of accepted course formats. Completing the class in one day isn't mentioned. Below is what it has. The District I am in is hosting a two Saturday course in March and April. This is ideal for people who cannot get away from work on Friday or have to be at church on Sunday. The syllabus also has a schedule for Format 1 and 2. It states that each item in the syllabus must be checked off and taught just like a Scout advancement.

1) Full Weekend (Friday evening to Sunday at 2:30pm)

2) Two One-day Weekend Sessions

3) Mentoring program where one skill is taught as a time and one on one by an experienced Trainer

All Scouts can be elected, but they don't have to be. In the old system where only half the eligible scouts could get elected each year, you would end up with a pecking order of the Worthly Scouts. It would sometime take 3-4 years for a worthy Scout to get elected. The new system of letting the Scouts voted for as many as were eligible eliminated that. However, it introduced the possibility for unworthy Scouts to get elected. Ultimately, the decision for who is eligible is based on the Scouts as it was then. With proper education, most of them would make the right decision on how to select which may or may not be everyone based on who the Scoutmaster deems as worthy. The candidates coming into the OA are definately older than they were under the old policy, but that probably isn't a bad thing.

I wear the Arrow of Light, Eagle Scout, Youth Religious Award, and the Scouter's Training Award. The youth awards are the most important to me as they represented some hard work and youth achievement. I will be adding the District Committee Key in January after I have served 3 years on the Committee. I'm currently the Training Chair and past Boy Scout Training Chair. Typically in our Council, everyone wears all their knots. I understand why some don't, but in my experience, it makes it easy to show people what your background is in Scouting and it gives adults some recognition for our service. It's a Metro Area Council. As a Training Chair, it's also useful to have and see so I know what experience is in the room and it also shows the participants that the trainer's are experienced.

In regards to the DAM, it's typically presented after 5 years of service in my District, 3 are usually at the District level, but sometimes they recognize long serving unit leaders. It seems like the awarding of the DAM largely depends on the District presenting it. If the District Leadership is older and they all have it, I guess a newbie could get it. My District is a mix and there's usually a pecking order of potential DAM candidates. We do have a Distinguished Leadership Citation which is a certificate presented after a couple years of service to unit and District leaders. They are nominated much like the DAM, but there are a large number awarded each year. The District surprised me with one last year.

Will

I'd agree with the sentiments posted. You have to be 21 to serve on a District Committee, and you have to be typically asked to serve at that level. If you want to work with training or some other area, I'd encourage you to volunteer to work with the chair on special projects such as staffing a training course, helping with a camporee, etc. Any Scouter (over 18) can help and serve in that area without being a member of the Committee. I'd encourage you to focus on serving your unit though and would encourage you to continue involvement in the OA at the Chapter or Lodge level. I'd also encourage you to examine your motives and think about why you want to be on the committee and make sure it is to serve as well as you can there, ie. no selfish motives.

Also, remember that people are watching you if you know it or not. I'm 28 years old and serve as District Training Chair for the District I'm in. After I graduated college in 2002, I got involved in a local troop and transferred my Lodge membership to my new Lodge and got involved there. The Chapter OA Adviser recommended me to the District Committee, and I was asked to serve as Boy Scout Training Chair. After a year and a half in that position, the Training Chair had to resign, and I moved into that position. I'm the youngest member of our committee, but I enjoy serving at that level. I feel like I make a difference there and serve well. I don't have a huge amount of free time so it works well for me. I hope this helps, if you have any questions post them.

Will Highsmith

I'm currently a District Training Chair. I have a vision for how it should work but in actuality it doesn't work that way for us. The Pack Trainer has two main responsibilites: to maintain the Pack's Training Records and to get 100% of their Direct Contact Leadership, Cubmaster and Den Leaders trained. I would encourage monthly contact with your District Training Chair. I'd also encourage you to support her as much as possible. You will need to work with her to get training cards for any trainers that you do. You can also get the syllabus from her. She can get them from your District Executive. As the District starts to run training courses, you should send information on them to your Pack. Since you have taken TDC, you can also serve as a Course Director for courses in your District or run courses in your Pack. It's important to have instructors that have taken the course though. If you need any clarification on this or have other questions ask away or feel free to e-mail at willhi1979 at yahoo.com

Will

There is standarization, it's called the course syllabus. For some reason, some Districts and Course Directors feel like they don't need to follow it. When that happens, you end up with substandard training that doesn't cover the breadth of material in the course.

I think the on-line training the BSA has produced so far is good and bad. The YPT panel video that you saw in the instructor led training doesn't really prepare leaders and inform them on the policies well. It was the first one that I had ran that was instructor led in my District, I'm the training chair. If I run that again, I will not show that video and will work with the instructor to make it more relevant to the participants. Troop Committee Challenge is a horrible course on-line. A lot of the interaction and content is missing from it. I personally was able to complete it in 20 minutes, I've taken and taught the classroom course. I personally think that none of the Leader Specific Courses should be online except Fast Start, New Leader Essentials, and Youth Protection. I also think it's good to have the safety courses that require recertification on-line.(This message has been edited by willhi1979)

I figured I'd post a reply to this. I recently ran my first BALOO course, I'm a District Training Chair. The course is a 8 hour course and very hands-on so it's impossible to put it on-line and get all the data out of it. We had 4 different councils come to the course that we put on and had 28 participants and 8 staff.

I can see why it's required to take a Pack camping. It equips the leaders to plan a quality program for boys that age. It focuses more on the age group then how to do things, I thought. Every leader that attended left with an idea to make their Pack Camping Program better.

Yes, there's a quality district patch that can be worn on a District Leader's Uniform. We made it this year so I was able to buy one from our Scout Shop.

I'm a District Training Chair, and I don't think a CD like that exists. The video on CD doesn't print out a training card at the end. You may want to see if they can go to a library and take it since most libraries have free internet access, they could use that.

I'm a 27 year old single Scouter. I was involved in the OA through college then became an ASM after I graduated. A year and 8 months later became the District Boy Scout Training Chair. A year and a half after that, I became the District Training Chair. I've resigned the ASM role and stayed on their Troop Committee. I'm also a committee adviser for the OA. I'm involved to give back.

I haven't had any issues due to my single status. I think single people and people involved without a kid involved are more likely to be targeted for District and Council Positions. I've never avoided any events due to my status. I have not gone to campouts several times due to church and other social events. Single Scouters are also targeted sometimes to help with new troops as well. I'd say that they serve for longer periods in Scouting as whole and in some cases, in one position a lot longer.